The continuing hoofball debate

[Shrimpers are Magic]

Good timing to come on here just after a 5-2 win in which, especially in the 2nd half we did play some nice passing football. I don’t think you could have interpreted the defenders hoofing it as hard and high as they could without a second thought of where the ball is going (Swindon , Bradford and Dagenham at home) as anything other than hoof ball. Quoting stats such as those never really works because we all know stats can be very deceptive, What we could see with our own eyes was the ball being continuously knocked over midfield and avoiding all our best playmakers , so don't be surprised when we call it hoofing. I am not quite sure the games you mention were dubbed 'great games’. They were however considered great wins which is a slightly different matter. The hoof ball debate could well be over forever if we continue to knock it about as we did 2nd half V Northampton.
No one is saying never hit it long. That would be ridiculous but a good blend of passing mixed with the occasional long ball and if in any danger at the back then god bless the hoof out of trouble. This is my explanation as asked for. And as I have said before thanks for listening.

no disrespect but I think you are wrong on here so many times.

 

[Firestorm]

In my opinion...

Direct pass: Player plays a high ball aiming for another player and has the ability to get it near the target on a regular basis.

Hoof: Player plays high ball up pitch with no player as target or player is not good enough to pass near target on a regular basis.

There will always be a good time and place for a hoof when ball in own 3rd and under pressure. The problem we have had in some games especially at Roots Hall is when opposition have come and sat deep. Our defenders have time on the ball, under no pressure with a short option available and they have blasted it long repeatedly.

I agree. Personally, however, I don't feel I have seen a player deliberately hoof the ball at nowhere in particular, I have seen a number of direct passes go astray, but I have seen that with short passes too.

At times, we are trying to play a direct style , when it goes wrong its called hoofball.
When it goes wrong when we are trying to play a short passing game from the back , the opposition get a real goalscoring opportunity (don't they Mr Timlin),

 

[Beefy]

I think southchurch and ooh-andy-ansah make some good points.

We are top of the league and Sturrock is doing a good job, nobody is disputing that. We have played some poor football lately though, Dagenham at home was the worst performance I have seen in ages, how it ended a draw I don't know. Perhaps the instruction is long ball or direct passing but when playing badly that turns into hoofball and we have seen some hoofball. We played some very attractive football under Tilson, IMO he possibly tried to play football too much as we were often undone by mistakes in possession of the ball and as a result we were relegated. I enjoyed watching his brand of football though.
I don't think anyone that has watched us regularly can dispute we have played some hoofball, whether it be by design or not. This isn't a dig at Sturrock, perhaps we haven't had the type of players needed to play how he wants to? A long ball game can bore me when trying to hit a big target man but playing long balls into space for quick wingers or strikers to chase can be very exciting, Tilson did this with JCR and Wayne Gray and Theo Robinson. Things didn't work with Jemal Johnson but Sturrock has brought in a winger and new striking options so perhaps we'll see a better long ball game now?

Firstly there were plenty of people on here who complained at our style of play when Dervitte and Clarke were hoofing it to Robinson to run onto. We played some amazing football under Tilly, we also played some garbage in his last two seasons.

The point is that you can't moan about the style of play in certain matches and not in others because I suspect that if you asked cluniemore (s)he'd say that the style of play has been pretty consistent. What hasn't been consistent is its effectiveness. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, which is the same as any tactic.

Sturrock plays a style of football which gets results at this level and his CV backs that up. I'm sure that he could send a team out on Saturday to pass the ball around in triangles and play pretty football, but he clearly doesn't think that we'll get as many points if we play a different style. And if we have a choice between two styles of play then I, personally, would rather us play the one which sees us score two goals a game and gets us the most points. I've seen plenty of posts on here from people who seemingly would choose a better style of play that may result in fewer points but have yet to see a single decent argument for why.

 

[Tampa Blue]

Amazing - top of the league, 50 goals scored, real competition for places and still some people find something to moan about :0(

I can think of 23 other Teams in this Division who would swap places with us in a heartbeat.

If Luggy gets snapped up by another club then that WOULD be something to moan about.

This glass is definitely half full despite some suggesting that it's half empty.

 

[bigmolt]

In my opinion...

Direct pass: Player plays a high ball aiming for another player and has the ability to get it near the target on a regular basis.

Hoof: Player plays high ball up pitch with no player as target or player is not good enough to pass near target on a regular basis

There will always be a good time and place for a hoof when ball in own 3rd and under pressure. The problem we have had in some games especially at Roots Hall is when opposition have come and sat deep. Our defenders have time on the ball, under no pressure with a short option available and they have blasted it long repeatedly.

Direct pass = Beckham,
Hoof = Gilbert/Prosser

 

[bigmolt]

Good timing to come on here just after a 5-2 win in which, especially in the 2nd half we did play some nice passing football. I don’t think you could have interpreted the defenders hoofing it as hard and high as they could without a second thought of where the ball is going (Swindon , Bradford and Dagenham at home) as anything other than hoof ball. Quoting stats such as those never really works because we all know stats can be very deceptive, What we could see with our own eyes was the ball being continuously knocked over midfield and avoiding all our best playmakers , so don't be surprised when we call it hoofing. I am not quite sure the games you mention were dubbed 'great games’. They were however considered great wins which is a slightly different matter. The hoof ball debate could well be over forever if we continue to knock it about as we did 2nd half V Northampton.
No one is saying never hit it long. That would be ridiculous but a good blend of passing mixed with the occasional long ball and if in any danger at the back then god bless the hoof out of trouble. This is my explanation as asked for. And as I have said before thanks for listening.

Very well put Southchurch. I totally agree.

 

[Tampa Blue]

Direct pass = Beckham,
Hoof = Gilbert/Prosser

.....what a ridiculous comparison - bit like comparing a Porsche to a Ford Fiesta. We'd all like to be able to afford a Porsche, but most of us can't - a bit like Southend United's finances really .

Some people seem only to be happy when they've got something to moan about.

Some on here have champagne taste when the club have beer money - and imho the club are doing a bloody good job this season with their beer money.

 

[Grayson]

If you aren't happy with us being top and scoring 50 goals in 25 games, you'll never enjoy football, let alone supporting Southend.

I've seen 4 of our 5 defeats this season despite only having been to only 12 games. I'd love to be some of you having seen 5-2, 4-1, 4-0 etc wins. Count yourselves lucky!

 

[Rob Noxious]

Must be one and the same as people having multiple log ins and various ID's is not allowed.

Sounds like you're still tangled up in blue about the Weller exit. :whistling:

 

[BLUEBLOOD]

I've seen 4 of our 5 defeats this season despite only having been to only 12 games

Museshrimper is hereby banned from SUFC matches until further notice :raspberry:

 

[BLUEBLOOD]

Sounds like you're still tangled up in blue about the Weller exit. :whistling:

As him about his Pink Floyd v The Jam semi final in "Battle of the Bands" the other year Rob :whistling:

 

[Grayson]

Museshrimper is hereby banned from SUFC matches until further notice :raspberry:

My first game at RH since the start of September was Bradford at home. I thought then I was a jinx!

Luckily I was at Wimbledon and Port Vale so things might not be so bad! :happy:

 

[ooh-andy-ansah]

Indeed, he has started the debate so thats fine, but no need for the patronising demands made in that post.

Points can be raised without the negative tones of some of these messages.

Beefy is right, it makes no sense he is getting such flack when we are top of the league, criticism can be delivered in far better ways and a little respect for turning this team around in 18 months should be given.

I sometimes wonder if some of you actually read anything before firing off a knee jerk reply.

I have given PS credit in other threads as have others who are still not impressed with the style of our play this season.

Debate is healthy as long as we all agree with you and beefy huh ?

 

[BLUEBLOOD]

My first game at RH since the start of September was Bradford at home. I thought then I was a jinx!

Luckily I was at Wimbledon and Port Vale so things might not be so bad! :happy:

I know what you mean with the jinx thing .. We lost every one of my first 10 away trips .. 11th time lucky and a 2-1 win at Cambridge in December 1986 which was the first of 3 successive away wins

I blew out Accrington on the morning of the game cos i just didn't reckon our chances, and had no intention of going to Vale cos i've been 5 times and seen us collect a total of 1 point :thump:

 

[ooh-andy-ansah]

I think southchurch and ooh-andy-ansah make some good points.

We are top of the league and Sturrock is doing a good job, nobody is disputing that. We have played some poor football lately though, Dagenham at home was the worst performance I have seen in ages, how it ended a draw I don't know. Perhaps the instruction is long ball or direct passing but when playing badly that turns into hoofball and we have seen some hoofball. We played some very attractive football under Tilson, IMO he possibly tried to play football too much as we were often undone by mistakes in possession of the ball and as a result we were relegated. I enjoyed watching his brand of football though.
I don't think anyone that has watched us regularly can dispute we have played some hoofball, whether it be by design or not. This isn't a dig at Sturrock, perhaps we haven't had the type of players needed to play how he wants to? A long ball game can bore me when trying to hit a big target man but playing long balls into space for quick wingers or strikers to chase can be very exciting, Tilson did this with JCR and Wayne Gray and Theo Robinson. Things didn't work with Jemal Johnson but Sturrock has brought in a winger and new striking options so perhaps we'll see a better long ball game now?

Great post but you run the risk of being slated for not worshipping the PS way and daring to point out the obvious to the rose tinters........:smile:

 

[Grayson]

I know what you mean with the jinx thing .. We lost every one of my first 10 away trips .. 11th time lucky and a 2-1 win at Cambridge in December 1986 which was the first of 3 successive away wins

I blew out Accrington on the morning of the game cos i just didn't reckon our chances, and had no intention of going to Vale cos i've been 5 times and seen us collect a total of 1 point :thump:

I had a similar record with London away games until recently. I'd not seen us win a league game in the capital in a good 15-20 visits. Since that duck was broken the other year, I believe we've won in the city every time since!

ooh-andy-ansah - 90% of us enjoying our league position and goalscoring form is not all of us being rose-tinted. That you are not enjoying it is you being miserable.

 

[tangerine dream]

Good timing to come on here just after a 5-2 win in which, especially in the 2nd half we did play some nice passing football. I don’t think you could have interpreted the defenders hoofing it as hard and high as they could without a second thought of where the ball is going (Swindon , Bradford and Dagenham at home) as anything other than hoof ball. Quoting stats such as those never really works because we all know stats can be very deceptive, What we could see with our own eyes was the ball being continuously knocked over midfield and avoiding all our best playmakers , so don't be surprised when we call it hoofing. I am not quite sure the games you mention were dubbed 'great games’. They were however considered great wins which is a slightly different matter. The hoof ball debate could well be over forever if we continue to knock it about as we did 2nd half V Northampton.
No one is saying never hit it long. That would be ridiculous but a good blend of passing mixed with the occasional long ball and if in any danger at the back then god bless the hoof out of trouble. This is my explanation as asked for. And as I have said before thanks for listening.

Why run the risk of getting caught with the ball in your own half.
More often than not the receiver will be facing his back four. Not the ideal position. Far better to push up
and receive the ball from the front men. I would call it percentage football.

M

 

[BLUEBLOOD]

I had a similar record with London away games until recently. I'd not seen us win a league game in the capital in a good 15-20 visits. Since that duck was broken the other year, I believe we've won in the city every time since!

We went through a spell in the 90s when we didn't win a night away game outside of the M25 for something like 25-30 games spread over 8 years .. now that is a shocking statistic

 

[Leoblue]

This is all getting boring now..... We're top of the league and scored 50 goals, what do some of you want for god's sake?

Give it a rest now and enjoy the promotion push............. :soapbox:

 

[Beefy]

Debate is healthy as long as we all agree with you and beefy huh ?

You're the one who seems to have an issue with peope disagreeing with them.