The continuing hoofball debate

[SARF]

You know the season is going well when fans start demanding entertainment over results in Div 4.

 

[Beefy]

Not true ! Many people even after beating Vale 3-0 were saying it was ugly football and horrible to watch. One guy commented that he coulnt believe how flat he felt having just won 3-0 and that he had never had that feeling before after such a great win. When I read that I knew exactly how he felt.

Some people are never happy.

 

[Beefy]

A perfect summary.

Cluniemore I assume you disagree with this ?

It's a compelling and very well written response, I would like to see you address the points raised, I think we all know by now the gaffer is "surprised". How about the gaffer giving us the benefit of his years of experience and explaining the finer technical points as he sees them in a way us lesser mortals can understand.

We're top of the league. I'm not sure what better explanation there is than that.

 

[palexander]

What Id like to know is what people would say if we now started to try to play more passing football and lost out on promotion. There were comments in other threads that people would rather see us draw than win ugly, I just dont believe thats true.

I dont want us to be a team that relies on direct balls and hope it doesnt continue if we go up, but its working at the moment and if it gets us promoted great. Next season I hope for an improvement in style/entertainment.

Thats what I said last time this debate came up - cant believe people would risk a change of style against us going up... crazy.

 

[Jai]

And moaning about the lack of entertainment when we have got to 50 goals before February. Goals are never boring. But then, I go to a lot of aways so I've been spoilt!

The problem with direct football is when it goes wrong, it looks awful. And in a few games in December when we looked a bit leggy and devoid of confidence, it didn't look good.

 

[WESTY_SUFC]

Most people only started complaining about the style of football when our unbeaten run came to an end. There was certainly some people grumbling about the type of play towards the end of the run but there was no major outcry until we lost.

Keep winning and you will get less complaints, but looking at the big picture will the same style of play be adopted if we are in League One ?

I think most people started taking note last season that we play very direct under Sturrock. Ive been delighted the last 2 games as i think we have really mixed it about with long and short passing which has been very effective as the oppositon havent been able to deal with it, not the usual plan A (lump it towards Dickinson)

 

[ooh-andy-ansah]

We're top of the league. I'm not sure what better explanation there is than that.

As usual the debate goes over your head. It's not the league position being called into question it's the style of play. Even some of the wins have been dire to watch !

 

[the_forgotten_man]

Insane.

Southchurch, I accept your point of view, you're perfectly entitled to it. But please, are you seriously trying to say that Sturrock, a manager of exceptional experience, will have changed any part of his tactics, transfers, views on the game because a few people complained on a message board that we weren't entertaining enough? I'd wager not.

We play decent football for this level. We get it forward to an increasingly talented bunch of strikers, with one of the best wingers outside the top two divisions on one wing playing in excellent set-pieces, and chipping in with goals. But frankly, we could camp in our own half and continually surrender possession for all I care if it got us promoted, or better yet, won us the division. Yes £20 is a lot of money for something you're not being entertained by. But playing nicer football and losing doesn't feel any better.

Keep going Luggy, you're doing an incredible job. But even when you've dragged this club up to League 1 you might still be surprised, because they'll inevitably be some saying something isn't good enough.

 

[C'mon you Shrimpers]

FFS why do people keep using the pejorative term hoofball. It just makes them look silly. It's direct football. We mix it up as well. I'm sick and tired of explaining the difference to people who clearly don't want to understand.
It's hardly surprising that when professional footballers/manager/coaches want a good laugh they log in to fans sights. Jeez.

 

[WESTY_SUFC]

As I have mentioned before, a 40 yard pass from the back finds a team mate and starts an attack, its a good early ball
minutes later a similar 40 yard ball gets intercepted and its a hoof.

In my opinion...

Direct pass: Player plays a high ball aiming for another player and has the ability to get it near the target on a regular basis.

Hoof: Player plays high ball up pitch with no player as target or player is not good enough to pass near target on a regular basis.

There will always be a good time and place for a hoof when ball in own 3rd and under pressure. The problem we have had in some games especially at Roots Hall is when opposition have come and sat deep. Our defenders have time on the ball, under no pressure with a short option available and they have blasted it long repeatedly.

 

[Beefy]

As usual the debate goes over your head. It's not the league position being called into question it's the style of play. Even some of the wins have been dire to watch !

Nothing went over my head. Your post was ridiculous. Why do you patronisingly need cluniemore to "explain the finer details"? The manager isn't here to make you happy. He's here to win football matches. He's winning football matches and we're top of the league. The fact that this doesn't please certain people says a lot more about them than it does about him.

I find it genuinely embarassing that the manager, or someone close to him, has to come on a fan messageboard and defend his tactics when we're top of the league and have scored 50 goals.

The day Sturrock arrived here, I started a thread on here asking if people cared that he was renowned as a manager who played a more direct style than we'd seen under Tilly in the promotion years. The overwhelming majority said that they didn't care so long as we were winning. We are winning, we're scoring an average of two goals a game, we scored five on Saturday and four a couple of games before that. That'll do me.

 

[Gremlin]

As usual the debate goes over your head.

Gotcha. I knew you were a wind-up merchant!

 

[Angell Delight]

There's a difference between hoof ball and being direct.

We've been very direct at times this season but especially on Saturday at Northampton we showed we can play some superb football.

Teams that play hoof ball aren't sitting top of the league having scored 50 goals by January.

Teams that play hoof ball are sitting bottom of the league with Aidy Hoofroyd in charge.

This. :thumbsup:

 

[ooh-andy-ansah]

Why do you patronisingly need cluniemore to "explain the finer details"? The manager isn't here to make you happy.

and That'll do me.

1/ Because he's the one who keeps coming on here starting threads so engaging him in a debate is perfectly acceptable.

2/ It isn't all about you, there are many who are unhappy with our style of play, we all pay our money so are entitled to question the quality of the product being supplied.

 

[Leoblue]

On another note, what time do the players start training? This thread was started just before 10.00 but if the players start training earlier then Clunimore isn't Luggy.... Just a thought :stunned:

 

[leeblue]

1/ Because he's the one who keeps coming on here starting threads so engaging him in a debate is perfectly acceptable.

2/ It isn't all about you, there are many who are unhappy with our style of play, we all pay our money so are entitled to question the quality of the product being supplied.

but the quality of the product is officially the best in the league, as it stands there isnt a better team in this division.

 

[Ozzer]

I think the main difference is the new competition for places. Until recently, the team virtually picked itself, especially upfront and we played the way to get the best out of our forwards and away from our goal.

Now that we have more options and real competition upfront we are seeing better quality play, especially 2nd half at Northampton. Dicko is playing better now he knows he has someone waiting to take his place and all the signings look good. It's about planning a strategy which best suits the players we have. Hopefully, our better forwards will keep the ball upfront more and help take the pressure off our defence, which still looks vulnerable at times.

 

[Jay_SUFC]

FFS why do people keep using the pejorative term hoofball. It just makes them look silly. It's direct football. We mix it up as well. I'm sick and tired of explaining the difference to people who clearly don't want to understand.
It's hardly surprising that when professional footballers/manager/coaches want a good laugh they log in to fans sights. Jeez.

Very good post and couldn't agree more :clap:

 

[Jam_Man]

1/ Because he's the one who keeps coming on here starting threads so engaging him in a debate is perfectly acceptable.

2/ It isn't all about you, there are many who are unhappy with our style of play, we all pay our money so are entitled to question the quality of the product being supplied.

Indeed, he has started the debate so thats fine, but no need for the patronising demands made in that post.

Points can be raised without the negative tones of some of these messages.

Beefy is right, it makes no sense he is getting such flack when we are top of the league, criticism can be delivered in far better ways and a little respect for turning this team around in 18 months should be given.

 

[Ricky Otto]

I think southchurch and ooh-andy-ansah make some good points.

We are top of the league and Sturrock is doing a good job, nobody is disputing that. We have played some poor football lately though, Dagenham at home was the worst performance I have seen in ages, how it ended a draw I don't know. Perhaps the instruction is long ball or direct passing but when playing badly that turns into hoofball and we have seen some hoofball. We played some very attractive football under Tilson, IMO he possibly tried to play football too much as we were often undone by mistakes in possession of the ball and as a result we were relegated. I enjoyed watching his brand of football though.
I don't think anyone that has watched us regularly can dispute we have played some hoofball, whether it be by design or not. This isn't a dig at Sturrock, perhaps we haven't had the type of players needed to play how he wants to? A long ball game can bore me when trying to hit a big target man but playing long balls into space for quick wingers or strikers to chase can be very exciting, Tilson did this with JCR and Wayne Gray and Theo Robinson. Things didn't work with Jemal Johnson but Sturrock has brought in a winger and new striking options so perhaps we'll see a better long ball game now?