The Ashes - 2010-2011 Thread

[number11]

Might have been a bit early for him, but Clive Rice is the other one also mentioned when talking about the great South African team that might have been. Also Mike Proctor.

No spin bowler of note though? Something their current side is obviously lacking as Harris toils away on a day 5 pitch wicketless when the opposition spinner picked up 7 wickets!

 

[canveyshrimper]

That's what I thought. Apparently they were statistically one of the best ever. I think the one I missed was Walters, what was he like?

Might have been a bit early for him, but Clive Rice is the other one also mentioned when talking about the great South African team that might have been. Also Mike Proctor.

Doug Walters was a pretty decent player he scored 100's in his first two tests against England in 1965/66 IIRC he was 19/20 years old on debut. He was also a useful bowler with a golden arm. He was excellent in Australia but pretty poor in English conditions.

I'm pretty sure that Clive Rice didn't actually play test cricket until the Saffers were readmitted in 1991, I think he captained them in the 1992 World Cup before Kepler Wesels took over. I can'tbelieve I forgot Mike Procter, he was genuinely quick, he had a strange delivery seemingly off the wrong foot. He was also a more than decent batsman and with Bradman holds the record of 6 consecutive first class centuries. The only weakness of that Saffer side was as ever the lack of a spinner.

 

[canveyshrimper]

No spin bowler of note though? Something their current side is obviously lacking as Harris toils away on a day 5 pitch wicketless when the opposition spinner picked up 7 wickets!

Harris is a pie chucker, and probably the worst "test class" spinner I've ever seen. The Saffers haven't had a decent spinner since Hugh Tayfield in the 50's.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Doug Walters was a pretty decent player he scored 100's in his first two tests against England in 1965/66 IIRC he was 19/20 years old on debut. He was also a useful bowler with a golden arm. He was excellent in Australia but pretty poor in English conditions.

I'm pretty sure that Clive Rice didn't actually play test cricket until the Saffers were readmitted in 1991, I think he captained them in the 1992 World Cup before Kepler Wesels took over. I can'tbelieve I forgot Mike Procter, he was genuinely quick, he had a strange delivery seemingly off the wrong foot. He was also a more than decent batsman and with Bradman holds the record of 6 consecutive first class centuries. The only weakness of that Saffer side was as ever the lack of a spinner.

I nearly forgot Procter as well!

If you've got 4 top quality quicks you don't need a spinner since the end of uncovered pitches anyway. See the West Indies in the 80s and see how little part spin played in our Ashes triumph.

Harris is a pie chucker, and probably the worst "test class" spinner I've ever seen. The Saffers haven't had a decent spinner since Hugh Tayfield in the 50's.

How about John Traicos?

 

[canveyshrimper]

I nearly forgot Procter as well!

If you've got 4 top quality quicks you don't need a spinner since the end of uncovered pitches anyway. See the West Indies in the 80s and see how little part spin played in our Ashes triumph.


How about John Traicos?

That's true enough about quick bowlers the WIndies bowlers were very effective in India.

Traicos was Rhodesian by birth and Rhodesia played in the South African Currie Cup competition. He was a slow left armer and I think he played in the 1970 series against Australia for the Saffers. When Zimbabwe gained International status Traicos played for them for a year or so at the age of 40. I didn't see him play but I don't think he was that good.

 

[Crabby Shrimper]

I'm pretty sure that Clive Rice didn't actually play test cricket until the Saffers were readmitted in 1991, I think he captained them in the 1992 World Cup before Kepler Wesels took over.

Pretty sure Rice wasn't at the World Cup. He may well have captained them for their re-admittance match against India though, memory's a bit hazy on that one

 

[Shrimper]

Result! 3-1.

 

[Bluesmanager]

And that, ladies and gents, is that. England by an innings and some, 3-1 in the series, Tremlett with 17 wickets in 3 matches.

Can't say fairer than that.

 

[Beefy]

Lovely stuff. I can get some sleep that.

 

[Cricko]

[video=youtube;RawaO1y1n_U]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RawaO1y1n_U[/video]

 

[BrettieAngell]

Beautiful, simply beautiful!

 

[canveyshrimper]

Brilliant, England, Perth apart have been totally dominant and have barely lost a session throughout a one sided series. For a bloke who can't bowl in Australia take a bow Jimmmy Anderson, and likewise Alastair Cook, 766 runs and man of the series.

 

[number11]

Great stuff England. Is clear from the celebrations that this is a real team and everyone contributes and there is a lot of good feeling amongst the squad. Saw KP interviewed and it struck me how he is now really just one of the ranks rather than the be all and end all of whether we do well.

Tried to look back at our pre-series predictions but they seemed to have been lost in the cull. I will hold my hand up and admit I thought it woud be close, 2-2 or 1 test either way based on an outstanding session as was the case in 2009. As it happens we had a number of outstanding sessions....in fact if you looked session by session I would think outstanding sessions by us outnumbered average, equal or poor sessions significantly. 3 innings victories is a massive thumping. Whilst this is no vintage Australian team, they are not as bad as their press are making out.......Ponting, Clarke and Hussey have a reputation of being world class batsmen, Katich and Watson a solid opening pair, Haddin a good wicket keeper batsman, Johnson test player of the year within last couple of years....... However the preparation our squad went through, the planning, research, training, fitness, mental strength, team unity, energy and ruthlessness we have shown would be an example to any team in any sport.

PS. For those more adept at Grammar than I am..... the screen showed 'England wins the ashes 3-1'.........I thought 'England win the ashes 3-1' sounds more right...... Are 'England' plural or singular?!

 

[EastStandBlue]

Great stuff England. Is clear from the celebrations that this is a real team and everyone contributes and there is a lot of good feeling amongst the squad. Saw KP interviewed and it struck me how he is now really just one of the ranks rather than the be all and end all of whether we do well.

Tried to look back at our pre-series predictions but they seemed to have been lost in the cull. I will hold my hand up and admit I thought it woud be close, 2-2 or 1 test either way based on an outstanding session as was the case in 2009. As it happens we had a number of outstanding sessions....in fact if you looked session by session I would think outstanding sessions by us outnumbered average, equal or poor sessions significantly. 3 innings victories is a massive thumping. Whilst this is no vintage Australian team, they are not as bad as their press are making out.......Ponting, Clarke and Hussey have a reputation of being world class batsmen, Katich and Watson a solid opening pair, Haddin a good wicket keeper batsman, Johnson test player of the year within last couple of years....... However the preparation our squad went through, the planning, research, training, fitness, mental strength, team unity, energy and ruthlessness we have shown would be an example to any team in any sport.

Agreed, The Australian press seem intent on downplaying how well England have performed by deriding a squad of players that consist world class, albeit aging, cricketers. Several Aussies just haven't performed consistently, that much is true, but England have played some outstanding cricket and have looked impervious for long spells... And for any cricketing nation that's a feat in Australia.

Some good commentary last night, as well. Early on I think Anderson bowled a no-ball, to which Michael Holding said: "No, you shouldn't be trying to bowl people out with no balls, Jimmy." Quick as you like, Athers responded with, "Quite right, we leave that to Australia."

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Brilliant, England, Perth apart have been totally dominant and have barely lost a session throughout a one sided series. For a bloke who can't bowl in Australia take a bow Jimmmy Anderson, and likewise Alastair Cook, 766 runs and man of the series.

Even in Perth we arguably won as many sessions as Australia did in the other 4 tests!

Whilst I enjoy beating Australia as much as the next man (especially if the next man is IT Botham, N Hussain or basically any Sky commentator), the real pleasure from this series wasn't in beating Australia, a team we probably should be beating, but in the manner of the beating. To win three tests by an innings is a thrashing of historical proportions. Not even the great Australian side did this to us when we were genuinely crap.

Great stuff England. Is clear from the celebrations that this is a real team and everyone contributes and there is a lot of good feeling amongst the squad. Saw KP interviewed and it struck me how he is now really just one of the ranks rather than the be all and end all of whether we do well.

Tried to look back at our pre-series predictions but they seemed to have been lost in the cull. I will hold my hand up and admit I thought it woud be close, 2-2 or 1 test either way based on an outstanding session as was the case in 2009. As it happens we had a number of outstanding sessions....in fact if you looked session by session I would think outstanding sessions by us outnumbered average, equal or poor sessions significantly. 3 innings victories is a massive thumping. Whilst this is no vintage Australian team, they are not as bad as their press are making out.......Ponting, Clarke and Hussey have a reputation of being world class batsmen, Katich and Watson a solid opening pair, Haddin a good wicket keeper batsman, Johnson test player of the year within last couple of years....... However the preparation our squad went through, the planning, research, training, fitness, mental strength, team unity, energy and ruthlessness we have shown would be an example to any team in any sport.

I think I said 2-1 Australia, with Katich top run-scorer and Broad top bowler!

You are 100% correct when you say this Australian team is nowhere near as bad as their (or indeed our) press is making out.

Ponting averages 53; Clarke 46; Hussey 51; Katich 45; Watson 41. These are genuine test class players, not Pakistan's or New Zealand's batting line-up where it's rare to average as much as 30. With the ball Mitchell Johnson is a former world no.1 bowler with 189 wickets at under 30; Siddle is an up and coming bowler taking his wickets at 32, Harris is genuinely quick and has taken his wickets in his brief test career at 24. Even after a series as bad as this one, Hilfenhaus is still averaging under 35 with the ball. It's not Bangladesh or Zimbabwe's bowling line-up. This is a serious test side, not one of the best by any stretch of the imagination, but a mid-table side. For England to thrash them so resoundingly, it makes me wonder if this might be a great England team.

Nevertheless, I have to ask:

Q. What do you call an Australian who can handle a bat?

A. A vet.

 

[number11]

I particularly enjoyed reading this article this morning....Australian journalist pre-ashes prediction on why the poms have no chance....I like the one at number 7- No Depth. England are in serious strife if they lose any of their first choice XI....Australia have eight Test-standard speedsters in the queue :hilarious:

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...hy-poms-wont-win/story-e6frey50-1225955985591


Oh and I'd somehow missed this peach of a delivery from Hilfenhaus (Australias answer to Jimmy Anderson......) amid the run gorging at Sydney.....[video=youtube;T_eYcR8OGhU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_eYcR8OGhU[/video]

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

That line about the 8 Aussie speedsters in the queue is a belter! Quality.

I'm genuinely awe-struck and humbled by just how ruthlessly efficient and disciplined this England side has been about getting the basics right, and in so doing, calmly disposing of Australia. As I said myself at the start of the series, it was supposed to be "too close to call", and I think I predicted we'd retain the Ashes by drawing the series 1-1 or 2-2.

As it is, we have handed out a thrashing of quite historical proportions. When the dust has settled, I hope the statisticians get to work and list all of the records we've broken - because there have been a hatful of them. Perhaps we should start listing them here. I'll chip in with a few:

*Cook - highest score by any Test player at the Gabba (235*)
*Highest score by England ever in Australia (644)
*Nos. 2 and 5 on the list of largest ever innings totals by visitors to Australia (644, 620/5 dec)
*Only 4th time in history, and first ever time in Australia, a side has made more than 4 innings scores in excess of 500 in a series
*First time Australia has ever lost three matches by an innings defeat at home

I open the floor to others - let's get those records up there. Never in a month of Sundays did I think we'd crush them like we have. But we have done, and it has been marvellous. Here are my Ashes ratings (out of 20)

Cook - 20
Strauss - 17
Trott - 18
Pietersen - 15
Collingwood - 11
Bell - 17
Prior - 18
Swann -16
Bresnan - 17
Tremlett - 17
Anderson - 19
Broad - 15
Finn - 15

Oh, and I never give full marks, only I just did to Cook. A mate of mine described it as a "once in a generation performance", and I think he's right about that. I'm not sure we'll see its like again for, perhaps, another 30 years. But Cook aside, it has still been an exceptional performance by all the England players - focussed and disciplined bowling, high levels of fitness (Broad being our only real "injury" as such; and although Finn was rested, it's easy to forget that he's only 21 and probably still growing!), alert and able in the field (Trott's improvement has been little short of staggering), and ruthless with the bat in hand. It makes us sound like the all-conquering Aussie sides of the 90s!

Let's enjoy this, and then on to the business of seeing whether we can (a) prosper at the World Cup; and (b) beat India at home. Here's hoping!

Matt

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

That line about the 8 Aussie speedsters in the queue is a belter! Quality.

I'm genuinely awe-struck and humbled by just how ruthlessly efficient and disciplined this England side has been about getting the basics right, and in so doing, calmly disposing of Australia. As I said myself at the start of the series, it was supposed to be "too close to call", and I think I predicted we'd retain the Ashes by drawing the series 1-1 or 2-2.

As it is, we have handed out a thrashing of quite historical proportions. When the dust has settled, I hope the statisticians get to work and list all of the records we've broken - because there have been a hatful of them. Perhaps we should start listing them here. I'll chip in with a few:

*Cook - highest score by any Test player at the Gabba (235*)
*Highest score by England ever in Australia (644)
*Nos. 2 and 5 on the list of largest ever innings totals by visitors to Australia (644, 620/5 dec)
*Only 4th time in history, and first ever time in Australia, a side has made more than 4 innings scores in excess of 500 in a series
*First time Australia has ever lost three matches by an innings defeat at home

I open the floor to others - let's get those records up there. Never in a month of Sundays did I think we'd crush them like we have. But we have done, and it has been marvellous. Here are my Ashes ratings (out of 20)

Cook - 20
Strauss - 17
Trott - 18
Pietersen - 15
Collingwood - 11
Bell - 17
Prior - 18
Swann -16
Bresnan - 17
Tremlett - 17
Anderson - 19
Broad - 15
Finn - 15

Oh, and I never give full marks, only I just did to Cook. A mate of mine described it as a "once in a generation performance", and I think he's right about that. I'm not sure we'll see its like again for, perhaps, another 30 years. But Cook aside, it has still been an exceptional performance by all the England players - focussed and disciplined bowling, high levels of fitness (Broad being our only real "injury" as such; and although Finn was rested, it's easy to forget that he's only 21 and probably still growing!), alert and able in the field (Trott's improvement has been little short of staggering), and ruthless with the bat in hand. It makes us sound like the all-conquering Aussie sides of the 90s!

Let's enjoy this, and then on to the business of seeing whether we can (a) prosper at the World Cup; and (b) beat India at home. Here's hoping!

Matt

Matt, how does Capey, who 360 runs at 60 with the bat (plus the key wicket of Michael Clarke at Adelaide), get lower marks than Strauss (scored 307 runs at 44 with the bat) and Swann (took 15 wickets at 40 with the ball)?

Similarly Finn (14 wickets@33 from 3 tests) has the same mark as Broad (2 wickets @81 from 2 tests) and less than Swann (15 wickets@40 from 5 tests)?

My ratings out of 10

Cook 10
Strauss 7
Trott 9
Pietersen 8
Bell 7
Collingwood 4
Prior 8
Broad 4
Swann 5
Anderson 9
Tremlett 9
Bresnan 9
Finn 6

 

[canveyshrimper]

Pretty sure Rice wasn't at the World Cup. He may well have captained them for their re-admittance match against India though, memory's a bit hazy on that one

Quite right Rice was left out of the World Cup squad, I think he would have been around 46 if he'd played. Kepler Wessels skippered them for a few years before Hansie Cronje took over.

 

[number11]

Highest score for 1 wicket lost (517/1 at Brisbane.....an insane scorecard. Making the Gabbatoir look like a buffet spread...)

Highest Partnership for any wicket at Brisbane (Ensuring Hussey and Haddin held the record for only 2 days)

Difficult to mark the team individually as they were such a strong unit and everyone stepped up with something at key points. Cook's return will always be remembered and I hope Anderson's is as well. He didnt get a 5fer, or a spectacular 7 or 8 wicket haul or a hattrick, but in nearly ever spell he was dangerous and took key wickets with the new ball and was consistently brilliant (unlike say Siddle who took two 6fers and a hattrick but almost half Andersons overrall total).

Cant disagree too much with your ratings, but would add Flower and the other coaching staff with a high 18......maybe their plans to Johnson batting showed too much respect for a slogger but otherwise the preparation and team unit he has instilled since Moores (The Steve McLaren of English cricket) horrible 2 years has been remarkable. We were absolutely ruthless, committed, brilliant in the field (Is it overhyping to say the best / most consistent fielding side ever put out? Other than Collingwood we may not have a team of Mark Waughs or Jonty Rhodes, but looking through our line up (particularly when Broad is playing) and its only Finn or Tremlett that you would want to hide down at fine leg....KP may be the weakest fielder but he has taken some good catches at gully and is not exactly hidden in the field.....certainly I think we have the best bowling fielders Ive seen - Anderson, Swann, Bresnan can all field in slips / gully area, Broad has taken some great steepling catches in the outfield....The Collingwood over before he gets Hussey out is a great example of this.....Hussey middles some drives but gets nothing for them as the close fielders pounce, and having not scored he then chops the last ball of the over onto his stumps)


Also, noticed that we took 91 wickets out of a possible 100 (only taking one second innings wickets when letting Australia bat for a session in Brisbane.....other than that we took all wickets available). On the other hand we only lost 56 wickets, losing all 20 of our wickets only in the Perth game.....).