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Thanks Kev - but is a new manager needed?

Should Maher go?

  • Yes

    Votes: 204 34.3%
  • No

    Votes: 280 47.1%
  • On the fence

    Votes: 111 18.7%

  • Total voters
    595
We were very spoilt by having Dave Martin as keeper coach and back up.
His experience helped coach the back line as well as improving Collin hugely and of course he was hugely capable between the sticks when needed at our level.
But more importantly, he stood up for co!lin behind the scenes and made sure his confidence stayed positive. This was reflected in how he played. Dave could do this because of who he was, his nature, and because he couldnt be pressured, being able to easily get work at most clubs.
I don't believe Collin gets this level of back up from the current set up and it's clear to me his confidence is lower and doesn't deal as well with constant criticism even when playing well. With young keepers, confidence is a hugely bigger thing than older players or different posituons.
I think a confident Collin is one of the best in this league. He just needs some support and encouragement. I doubt Saturday did much for that.
 
Going down in a blaze of self-glorification, sticking to your 'principles', is idealistic claptrap. A manager is there to do what it says on the tin. Manage. It is his role to identify the tools at his disposal and how best to utilise them. If the business can afford new tools and machinery it's up to him to identify the priority need and where it can be utilised best to enhance and improve production. If there is no money available then you get the machines to run as sweet as you can, maximise the output with the restrictions and know the shop floor is running to its capacity. It is up to the factory owners to ensure there is demand for the product, demand is met and the product is fit for purpose.

Football, particularly at Southend, is different. The fans, many with decades of support and generations of the same family, are told ' be grateful you have a club!'. Keep turning up, show loyalty and all the while be taken for granted. You can put up with the rubbish product, in a s#*thole stadium, keep paying in money and all because you are fans and we know you will accept it. Begrudgingly, but accept it you will! It's a disgrace.

Furthermore, I hear little from the players perspective. Their career is time sensitive. Imagine signing on to a club with a big fan base, a good history in the EFL and aspiration to return there, only to find that your time here is probably wasted with no chance to further your career as chasing promotion may well be a year, two, three or more away. Add to that you are made to play absolute s#&te football and lose to a Barnet side that looked like they were on a training ground exercise.

Yes you stick to your guns Kev. No success, no entertainment and no point. Everyone is being made to suffer because KM is stubborn and COSU have no balls.
 
I am all for supporting the club and the 4 of us have been going home and away for over 30 years but it's just depressing. Saturday was the first time I wished I'd stayed in the pub.

Performance on Sat defo wasn't great - but I'm also not sure it's the worst in 30 years! Are there other things contributing to the feeling that its worse? Crowd atmosphere, group you're attending with, social media etc that maybe is reinforcing a negative feedback loop?
 
Nail on head.

You suggested that KM won’t change his thoughts so hopefully with better players it may not be more of the same.

Unfortunately, and I hope I’m wrong, I can’t see anything but more of the same.😒😢

I’ve no idea what Kev will do. I don’t know him personally, so haven’t spoken to him.

I’m saying my opinion, like we all are on here. It’s my guess.
 
I can put who I like it there.

The fact remains, Pep has had an awful spell, arguably a worse run of results than we have had this season, and he stuck by his guns and is getting them out of it.

I never mentioned the Luton boss, but Martin & Kompany you say are new to it all, but Maher isn’t that much more experienced. I’d say the things he has had to deal with will be things 95% of managers will never face, but in terms of actual matches. I’m sure someone can come up with the matches they’ve been in charge for.

You left out Ange, is he fair game?
Of course you can say what you like, anyone can but it doesn't mean it's right. Yes I left Ange out as he's been around a bit and at clubs who have been the dominant club in their various leagues, but where Spurs aren't 1 of the dominant clubs in the Prem he's been found wanting, partly I feel that the board haven't backed him to that level. My opinion as business owners is the consortium will also have to reevaluate as a continuous process. Do they think their product is what the market wants, is it value for money, is the future progression looking upwards or downwards, all those questions a business owner has to ask themselves. If things don't improve in the very near future it'll become like an open sore and start to fester. I'm not here to bash Maher, I doubt anyone here would want to see him or the management team fail, but it doesn't seem to be working out for him/them, certainly from a pure entertainment value let alone progressive prospects.
 
Performance on Sat defo wasn't great - but I'm also not sure it's the worst in 30 years! Are there other things contributing to the feeling that its worse? Crowd atmosphere, group you're attending with, social media etc that maybe is reinforcing a negative feedback loop?
It's nothing to do with social media.

It was freezing cold. I counted maybe one or two shots at goal. You can't count the chalked off goal as it was dissalowed.

The general togetherness of the team looks appaling. Body language remains poor.

The tactics baffle me. I said before the game that the only thing I could see coming was a 2 or 3 nil defeat and a southend scoreline of nil. That is where we are at. It's so obvious and predictable before every match. How often this season have we been pleasantly surprised? 4 home wins by January is appaling.

We are currently set to achieve the lowest league finish in our near 120 year history!! Let that sink in for a minute. Statistically, this is the very worst team we have ever had.

I remember the Alvin Martin years. Crap football but at least there was some entertainment. Was also in a higher league against better teams.

We had an opportunity this year. Decent gates, feel good factor and a winning mentality after surviving. A complete opportunity wasted
 
I was before Saturday in the pro Maher camp.
I am now Sitting On The Fence.
Agree Barnet were a good side for this level, but we are not improving going backwards.
I have heard a whisper. Tilly & Barrett.
That's Interesting. !
For me that would literally give the whole club a lift. At least we would have a real go at teams and get the ball forward quickly.

Can you imagine what Barrett would make of the defending Saturday. No way would he be putting up with that.
 
Of course. When it continues there's food for thought.
But some of the postings want Maher gone now, despite all that's gone before.
On that premise, Man City should be sacking Pep with only three wins from the last seven, not counting the Salford FA Cup

The squad is ****e And the board can't invest in to it atm

No idea what sacking the NL 23/24 manager of the season will achieve

Do you really think a club that can't afford to invest in to the team will have the money to sack Maher and bring in an improved manager?

Strap in, see what the summer brings in terms of investment (if any) and then judge Maher. He's yet to have a transfer window where he can sign who he wants (which will be the same for anyone who replaces him)

I wish that was the case but all across social media are mostly saying the same things regarding Kev and the set up.
Not forgetting many many more at the game,thousands actually.
 
Weve lost too many good players and replaced with in the most case dross. Add to that some of Mahers best signings (Noor, Miley, Bridge) seem to have gone stale and reached their ceiling. But he has also been guilty of buying too many similar players. Virtually no pace in the team, no dead ball expert, no leader at the back. All things that would improve the team massively.
 
Performance on Sat defo wasn't great - but I'm also not sure it's the worst in 30 years! Are there other things contributing to the feeling that its worse? Crowd atmosphere, group you're attending with, social media etc that maybe is reinforcing a negative feedback loop?
I've said this before @Holy Joe. In the old days we'd see a really dreadful performance, head back to the pub & argue the toss over 10-12 pints but then not see each other for a few days or a week or 2 depending on the next match.

Now, within seconds of the final whistle we have some who are not even at games saying it's "the worst I've ever seen" & then dissecting every aspect of the club using their FM success. Others are wholly p*ssed off & I totally understand why they are simply ranting, some are dissatified but raising valid points from a reasoned view & then we have the one trick ponies who will just repeat, repeat, repeat. There are a few who have gone very anti-club recently about absolutely everything & there is one who I can only think has a professional axe to grind as he used to be one of the most sensible posters on here whose view I always respected. Now it's just critcism of probably even the colour of the grass.

All this is going on 24 hours a day almost whereas we had a 3/7/14 day cooling off period & I suspect were less "expert" back then plus I think were more tolerant of other's views than some are on here.

There's no doubt I've seen worse than Saturday over my long time watching SUFC but I've deliberately forgotten them. Carlisle coming down on more than one occasion with about 2 points in Nov/Dec & not having scored away from home at all gives me a horrible flashback though.
 
Football is a results business and results, apart from the very few surprise games we won, are poor. Performances are poor.
When Leicester won the Premier League in 2016 but that didn't stop then from sacking Ranieri the following year when results went to pot. I feel this is similar to us, Kev did well the last couple of seasons, although it was never exciting football, however this season he has been abysmal.
I don't hold any malice towards him, I mean what a player he was for us, however we need more from our club than what we are being served.
So what we didn't get our first,second or third choices in the transfers, what we did bring in should still be of a quality to play a decent game of football and sadly this is not happening under KM adding to that they are all players that KM brought in.
 
it would be great to have the chance to better understand from the management team some of the decision making and the way KM's tactics have evolved (or regressed depending on your perspective).

for example

- the pros and cons of the switch from 343 when he first came in to 352, and especially how its affected our ability to press teams from the front.
- why we seem to have moved away from the overlapping centre backs model that had come from Currie's Sheff Utd influence - Ralph doesn't get forward nearly as much as he used to to support bridge, and there's no equivalent of what Hobson used to do on the right of the three.
- what we wants his midfielders to do especially the 2 #8s.
- given the relative success (at least in fans eyes) of the 433 when we've played it this season - particularly insofar as it seems to get the best out of Bonne and walker - why he's so reluctant to use it at least as an alternative.

i would love us to find a way to get back to 3 up top whether with a back 3 or back 4 at least at home - it gets us playing on the front foot more and might help with chance creation by letting our attacking players get the ball in different parts of the pitch. it's still easy enough to attack in some form of a 3-1-6 shape the we're told KH likes in that model.
 
I highly doubt it’s anything to do with a 3 year deal…

What you are finding is coaches are becoming more and more stubborn. A head coach or manager has a limited shelf life, and you are either gonna be sacked or poached in this line of work. If you are going to be sacked, surely you want to go down with your own ideology and philosophy on how you want your team to play.

Look at Kompany at Burnley. Outstanding in the Championship, some of the best football played at that level, tried it in the Premier League and didn’t work. Obviously worked out well for him. Same with Russel Martin at Southampton, stuck to his guns. Ange at Spurs is the same, and Pep when they went through that awful run, he stuck with the same formation, same style of play etc.

Surely, if you’re going to be sacked, you don’t want that regret of “bowing to fan pressure”.

If I’m a 4-4-2 man, I’ll stick with it, Kev is a 3-5-2 man, so he’ll stick with it. I’d rather be sacked doing things how I want than regretting it afterwards.

Hiya, as you know I respect your knowledge and we speak quite frequently on Dms. I'd like to add one observation on what you said above, which I add, I agree with.

I got to thinking, by turning your point on it's head slightly, as, having named a group of managers, with the exception of Pep, who has suffered a bad run with proven players at one level, have all suffered in the top division and either got sacked or relegated.

I'd like to reflect on two of the most successful and respected managers in recent years.

With regard to viewing the matches from the stand, both Wenger and Fergie would spend 2/3 if not all the 1st half of games in the directors box. Trusting their assistants/coaching staff to run the game acting on their pre match instructions. It would give a greater view of the initial game plan of the opposition and see if there were any tweaks needed in their own. (I know they both had a telephone link to their benches @Tom Lawrence - Don't forget to include that in the East Stand rebuild).

But not just once this season have we seen teams we play set up against us based on scouting knowledge about how we play and as an example, play long diagonal balls into the vacant gaps behind our Wing Backs and wider than our back three CBs. York opening game of the season was a prime example, but we didn't change, if at all, in the game until late and were put on the back foot due to their understanding of our tactics and our own lack of flexibility to counter such a game plan from our opponents.

We have, imo, a wonderfully skilled trio on the coaching staff, but are we or are they maximising their skills to their full ability would be my question? Darren Currie has managed at this level, Benno at level 4, won promotion and was top 6 at Level 3 when he left to join us, so they have ability, without a doubt. So could Kev use that to his advantage and take some time in the directors box himself at the start of games, to see how it pans out early on?

As you said, any formation we play is not going to be down to what is said on here, but the choice of KM.

But if things aren't working out in a game and causing a bad run, then maybe having that extra insight is better than, what seems to be happening now, stubbornly sticking to a fixed gameplan whatever and seemingly losing even a minority the fanbase?

After all, if he did do that, change formations, selections and using subs maybe a little earlier, with the additional input of that great observation opportunity, if we were still struggling, Kev would be demonstrating a full use of the tools available to him, an ability to adjust a game to give us stronger options and there may be more questions as to why KM seemingly isn't getting the backing from COSU in our current circumstances, when at the moment there are more questions and concerns about Kev's ability.

Just thinking out loud, or in print more to the point.
 

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