class
SZ's Official Accountant⭐🦐
Laurent also had a strop when he wasn't allowed to take the penalty, and it was given to Vernon.
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Post-Match Thread and Ratings SUFC vs Trannies 13/02/2010
Laurent also had a strop when he wasn't allowed to take the penalty, and it was given to Vernon.
yogi bear up the cagire
Life President⭐
These are more my thoughts and reflections on yesterday, rather than a report or ratings.
Firstly, I was getting rather worried during the build up to the game, that people were really puting too much importance on it. In essence, it was the first match where Tilson had virtually all the elements at his disposal, to compose a settled team that will have the responsibity of getting us out of trouble this season.
If we work on the premise that success has to be built from the back, then how did we do? Well, despite my concerns about Captain Fantastic's arms, by all accounts he did well yesterday. This is good news for him and for us...............not quite so good for Mr Herd. Centrally, M'Voto appeared to have some shakey moments at the start but like against Colchester (perhaps even quicker than Colchester), he settled in well.
Baldwin also looked reasonably solid, so.......................................the weak link for yesterday goes to Simon Francis. On the commentary he seemed to be caught out time and time again and in the first half his set pieces were generally a waste of time. This aspect of his game gradually improved during the second half, when amongst other things he provided some good crosses for Jeff..........did his game change when Watt came off? Anyway, let's hope that it was not one of Simon's better days at the office and that, with the other three we will start to meld into a more solid unit as they got used to each others games. Please,please can we concentrate from the off at the start of the second-half .....................this is not the first time we've been caught cold after the break.
I have to agree with Ibwiajwa about our problems in midfield. We have lacked the kind of dynamism and creativity required since the departure of Gower, Bailey and more recently Sawyer................nevertheless, as Tilly would say, we'll have to do with what we've got. For me, the best of what we've got (bar Grant), started the match yesterday. As at Colchester, we looked better balanced and looked menacing with our speed on the wings.
We suffered the blow of the equaliser straight after the break and immediately following that, were obliged to make a substitution, with the injury of Watt. It was at this point that I started to get a bit annoyed and baffled at our change. Like Andy S and RC I couldn't understand why Macca was brought on.
http://www.shrimperzone.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1106750&postcount=90
Even Steve Tilson didn't seem to know what he was doing! How can you make a post match comment like, "In the second-half I felt we needed more width with Sanchez, but then he gets brought off injured." I'm sorry but I don't understand how that thought proccess can lead to Watt being substituted by Macca............but there you go! Perhaps the fear of losing got the better of Tilly and he bottled it. Surely, bringing Spencer on and moving Laurent out wide would have provided a few more problems for Tranmere to deal with, plus the fact that Moussa appeared more comfortable and a greater threat in the middle..................but I'm not the manager!
I do have some sympathy with Tilly in his view that, hard though they may be, I wouldn't write off the next three matches as zero points. I would like to see us going to MKD with the same starting line up AND formation as we started Saturday. We've still got a long way to go this season and whilst I can understand the annoyance, frustration and despair, from some on here, I believe that it is honestly not the moment to abandon ship.
Firstly, I was getting rather worried during the build up to the game, that people were really puting too much importance on it. In essence, it was the first match where Tilson had virtually all the elements at his disposal, to compose a settled team that will have the responsibity of getting us out of trouble this season.
If we work on the premise that success has to be built from the back, then how did we do? Well, despite my concerns about Captain Fantastic's arms, by all accounts he did well yesterday. This is good news for him and for us...............not quite so good for Mr Herd. Centrally, M'Voto appeared to have some shakey moments at the start but like against Colchester (perhaps even quicker than Colchester), he settled in well.
Baldwin also looked reasonably solid, so.......................................the weak link for yesterday goes to Simon Francis. On the commentary he seemed to be caught out time and time again and in the first half his set pieces were generally a waste of time. This aspect of his game gradually improved during the second half, when amongst other things he provided some good crosses for Jeff..........did his game change when Watt came off? Anyway, let's hope that it was not one of Simon's better days at the office and that, with the other three we will start to meld into a more solid unit as they got used to each others games. Please,please can we concentrate from the off at the start of the second-half .....................this is not the first time we've been caught cold after the break.
I have to agree with Ibwiajwa about our problems in midfield. We have lacked the kind of dynamism and creativity required since the departure of Gower, Bailey and more recently Sawyer................nevertheless, as Tilly would say, we'll have to do with what we've got. For me, the best of what we've got (bar Grant), started the match yesterday. As at Colchester, we looked better balanced and looked menacing with our speed on the wings.
We suffered the blow of the equaliser straight after the break and immediately following that, were obliged to make a substitution, with the injury of Watt. It was at this point that I started to get a bit annoyed and baffled at our change. Like Andy S and RC I couldn't understand why Macca was brought on.
http://www.shrimperzone.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1106750&postcount=90
Even Steve Tilson didn't seem to know what he was doing! How can you make a post match comment like, "In the second-half I felt we needed more width with Sanchez, but then he gets brought off injured." I'm sorry but I don't understand how that thought proccess can lead to Watt being substituted by Macca............but there you go! Perhaps the fear of losing got the better of Tilly and he bottled it. Surely, bringing Spencer on and moving Laurent out wide would have provided a few more problems for Tranmere to deal with, plus the fact that Moussa appeared more comfortable and a greater threat in the middle..................but I'm not the manager!
I do have some sympathy with Tilly in his view that, hard though they may be, I wouldn't write off the next three matches as zero points. I would like to see us going to MKD with the same starting line up AND formation as we started Saturday. We've still got a long way to go this season and whilst I can understand the annoyance, frustration and despair, from some on here, I believe that it is honestly not the moment to abandon ship.
Last edited:
EastStandBlue
Life President
Indeed, that was the turning point. After not getting to take the penalty he threw an almighty strop, barely acknowledging Vernon when he celebrated and I didn't hear a peep from him the rest of the game.
Like I said in my original post, the Laurent act is starting to wash very thin on me. I'll admit, I don't get people's obsession with him... He might be tricky on the odd occasion but he has no end product whatsoever. He's also very limited in the engine he has, he's all over the place for 20 minutes and then he prances up the line as if he's entered a marathon for the next 70.
Everything I've seen tells me that he's an impact player. One to come off the bench and run at tired legs... There's nothing wrong with that, plenty of players made fantastic careers of being impact players, Ole Gunnar Solksjaer earned hero status by doing just that.
BrettieAngell
THE ROCK GOD
Have to agree with that. To me he's a luxury player and in our predicament we can't be carrying anyone.
TravellingBlue
Coach
Completely underwhelmed by team selection, tactics and their desire to win.
Defenesively a 4 across the board, they had nothing to defend against and still managed to create problems for themselves.
Midfield again a 4 across the board, we are seriously lacking a creative midfielder, Moussa had a couple of good moments but that was it. Sanchez should have been taken off ten minutes before half time when he first was injured (he had to pass a late fitness test on the same ankle before the game) not ten minutes after half time, we virtually played a third of the game with 10 men.
Up front I don't think Vernon touched the ball more than ten time in the match, Laurent's 'charisma' has now worn off, he is greedy, selfish and is not a 'team player'. Not bringing Spencer on sooner, and not bringing Paterson on at all showed me a lack of ambition from TS and PB.
For me, not playing two proper strikers together at home, against fierce relegation rivals was tantamount to capitulation.
Defenesively a 4 across the board, they had nothing to defend against and still managed to create problems for themselves.
Midfield again a 4 across the board, we are seriously lacking a creative midfielder, Moussa had a couple of good moments but that was it. Sanchez should have been taken off ten minutes before half time when he first was injured (he had to pass a late fitness test on the same ankle before the game) not ten minutes after half time, we virtually played a third of the game with 10 men.
Up front I don't think Vernon touched the ball more than ten time in the match, Laurent's 'charisma' has now worn off, he is greedy, selfish and is not a 'team player'. Not bringing Spencer on sooner, and not bringing Paterson on at all showed me a lack of ambition from TS and PB.
For me, not playing two proper strikers together at home, against fierce relegation rivals was tantamount to capitulation.
sussex by the sea
SZ Fantasy League Champ 08/09.
I don't normally post in the after match threads but yesterday was absolute dross.
For the third game in a row, I have started the drive back to Sussex absolutely nonplussed by the manager's comments. Starting from the Swindon game, when he said how desperately we need experience, while the most experienced player in the squad (whatever you think of him) trots up and down the touchline every week as a largely unused substitute. Then the Colchester game, where he was pleased with the performance, yet had we still been playing now we wouldn't have scored (and even if we had I am sure they would have stepped up a gear and got another themselves) and now yesterday.
"Mildy didn't have a save to make" - codswallop, he should be congratulated for that save in the second half becuase it saved us the match.
"They came for a point" - no, overused cliche for an away team that defends reasonably well. You may as well say we were playing for a point with our team selection and substitutions.
No Macca in the starting line-up because the central midfielders "played so well on Monday". Don't buy that either I'm afraid. I don't agree with the criticism of Macca on here, because if he is not one of the best 11 players in this abject team we have at the moment, then I am very surprised.
As has been mentioned earlier in the thread, his sour response to the reaction to the fans reaction contrasted sharply with Barrett's response whose interview was much better handled. We are lucky to have him as captain.
The saddest thing is that I almost think "oh good Boothroyd / Still will be coming on in a moment" as they don't seem to be pulling the wool over anyone's eyes. Even the bloke from Braintree seemed to be realistic about his team.
Tilly has done wonders for the club and I imagine he will do so again in the future if he stays. However, the level of apathy around at the moment, which I think is the highest for 6 or 7 years, will not even begin to lift until he stops denying what we can all see before us every week.
For the third game in a row, I have started the drive back to Sussex absolutely nonplussed by the manager's comments. Starting from the Swindon game, when he said how desperately we need experience, while the most experienced player in the squad (whatever you think of him) trots up and down the touchline every week as a largely unused substitute. Then the Colchester game, where he was pleased with the performance, yet had we still been playing now we wouldn't have scored (and even if we had I am sure they would have stepped up a gear and got another themselves) and now yesterday.
"Mildy didn't have a save to make" - codswallop, he should be congratulated for that save in the second half becuase it saved us the match.
"They came for a point" - no, overused cliche for an away team that defends reasonably well. You may as well say we were playing for a point with our team selection and substitutions.
No Macca in the starting line-up because the central midfielders "played so well on Monday". Don't buy that either I'm afraid. I don't agree with the criticism of Macca on here, because if he is not one of the best 11 players in this abject team we have at the moment, then I am very surprised.
As has been mentioned earlier in the thread, his sour response to the reaction to the fans reaction contrasted sharply with Barrett's response whose interview was much better handled. We are lucky to have him as captain.
The saddest thing is that I almost think "oh good Boothroyd / Still will be coming on in a moment" as they don't seem to be pulling the wool over anyone's eyes. Even the bloke from Braintree seemed to be realistic about his team.
Tilly has done wonders for the club and I imagine he will do so again in the future if he stays. However, the level of apathy around at the moment, which I think is the highest for 6 or 7 years, will not even begin to lift until he stops denying what we can all see before us every week.
grassroots
Coach
Hooray someone watches the same game as me!! It was obvious that we had a 'spare man' at the back for most of the first half. Did we use him and take advantage - did we hell! For God's sake Tilly be more pro active, take control. Why make a 'one forward on, one off' change in a game Tranmere were happy to draw and we needed to win? For the last 10 mins at Brighton, apparently Norwich had FIVE forwards on the pitch and scored 2 goals to win!
Skyblue
Manager
I think what we have at the moment is a team (& maybe management that can't get across their tatics to the players) that aren't inteligent enough to play anything other than a rigid 442. I was releived to see us line up with that well tried formation but like you when it became clear that we had the extra man and given that Laurent doesn't play as a traditional striker anyway, we looked extremely lightweight in attack yet again.
My ratings
Mildenhall 7 - just what we've come to expect, he's risen the bar of goalkeeping expectations from its admittedly low height with good positioning, coming for crosses, big kicking combined with good reflexes.
Francis 4 - probably our player of the season (at least in the top 3), but not yesterday when he was like the Francis of the Championship season. He must have miskicked at least half a dozen times. Infuriating.
Barrett 6.5 - at least adds some forward drive in a team lacking it but looked as if he was still running thro that Col Ewe quicksand.
Baldwin 6.5 - the pick of our defence. I like the fact that he talks a lot.
Mvoto 6 - inching his way back towards full fitness
Christophe 7 probably our MOM. As usual broke up a lot of moves and not all of them were ours as he actually played some very good balls. Should have scored at least one from set-pieces.
Moussa 6.5 - his influence was seen when he was wrongly shunted out wide
Watt 5 - don't see what the fuss is about so far. He offered very little again, the fact that we looked worse without him says more about the positional changes that followed than about his performance.
Scannell 6.5 - built on Monday's performance in the first half when he committed defenders. His energy is important to us, but he tailed off badly.
Vernon 6 - looks competent on the limited evidence so far, but has been shorn of service
Laurent 5.5 - gets an extra mark for winning the penalty. I agree with ESB that he's an impact player. If I start him, I start him up front because he's too much of a luxury to play in midfield.
Subs McCormack 6 - didn't play particularly badly, but his introduction clogged up our midfield, disrupted the balance and the team looked a lot worse for it. I just don't understand why he wasn't put out wide left where he doesn't get in Moussa and Christophe's way and doesn't disrupt our passing. He made his name playing wide midfield and frankly there are better options in the middle at the moment.
Spencer - difficult to judge as got even less service than Vernon.
Mildenhall 7 - just what we've come to expect, he's risen the bar of goalkeeping expectations from its admittedly low height with good positioning, coming for crosses, big kicking combined with good reflexes.
Francis 4 - probably our player of the season (at least in the top 3), but not yesterday when he was like the Francis of the Championship season. He must have miskicked at least half a dozen times. Infuriating.
Barrett 6.5 - at least adds some forward drive in a team lacking it but looked as if he was still running thro that Col Ewe quicksand.
Baldwin 6.5 - the pick of our defence. I like the fact that he talks a lot.
Mvoto 6 - inching his way back towards full fitness
Christophe 7 probably our MOM. As usual broke up a lot of moves and not all of them were ours as he actually played some very good balls. Should have scored at least one from set-pieces.
Moussa 6.5 - his influence was seen when he was wrongly shunted out wide
Watt 5 - don't see what the fuss is about so far. He offered very little again, the fact that we looked worse without him says more about the positional changes that followed than about his performance.
Scannell 6.5 - built on Monday's performance in the first half when he committed defenders. His energy is important to us, but he tailed off badly.
Vernon 6 - looks competent on the limited evidence so far, but has been shorn of service
Laurent 5.5 - gets an extra mark for winning the penalty. I agree with ESB that he's an impact player. If I start him, I start him up front because he's too much of a luxury to play in midfield.
Subs McCormack 6 - didn't play particularly badly, but his introduction clogged up our midfield, disrupted the balance and the team looked a lot worse for it. I just don't understand why he wasn't put out wide left where he doesn't get in Moussa and Christophe's way and doesn't disrupt our passing. He made his name playing wide midfield and frankly there are better options in the middle at the moment.
Spencer - difficult to judge as got even less service than Vernon.
McNasty
Member
Watt had a fitness test on his ankle prior to yesterday's game and obviously wasn't able to complete the match as he was limping in the first half so I think it is a bit unfair to knock him too much until we have seen him playing at least 90 mins on a grass pitch unlike the beach at Colchester. Maybe he shouldn't have started yesterday.
OldBlueLady
Junior Blues Coordinator⭐⭐🦐
A fact not borne out by the pics on the OS
http://www.southendunited.co.uk/page/Gallery/0,,10444~1965304,00.html
When will people stop imagining stuff to create more problems?
True, I imagined Macca had a positive impact when on as sub and that Scannell was ****.
EastStandBlue
Life President
OBL, please, I witnessed it with my own eyes. Vernon celebrated with the squad and Laurent only acknowledged him when Vernon gave him a consolitary tap on the shoulder. Pictures capture one instance, so it's quite easy for them to distort what actually happened.
So, if you're going to call me a liar, please come with more evidence.
OldBlueLady
Junior Blues Coordinator⭐⭐🦐
Well, I didn't notice, and can only go by what the pic shows. I'm certainly not calling you a liar just showing that the pic seems to indicate otherwise.
class
SZ's Official Accountant⭐🦐
I see it with my own eyes thanks.
watchtheballboys
Youth Team
Truly Terrible
We were very poor against Tranmere and as I put on another thread if the players have not been paid this must affect their motivation on the pitch.
The players as a collective are not good enough based on the their performances this season. Without the fluke of Barney being fit and scoring, no one could forsee he would have such a good season as he did for us this, we would have been in the relegation zone already. His form did paperover the cracks that were clearly there for some time.
The most disppointing players for me this season.....
Macca ~ not the player he was and his outburst on Facebook although in my mind justified will probably mean he wont be with us next season.
Christophe ~ has generally been poor all season, how was he viewed to be good enough for a Premier club?
Moussa ~ this was the season to show his true potential and probably get the move to a bigger club....I think his performances this season have been very inconsistent and smacks of him believing the hype of last season.
Laurent ~ full of tricks but rarely an end result, cannot cross a ball and does not know when to pass....I know some think he is wonderful but I don't think we can afford to have such a 'luxury' player at this time. Not a starter, impact sub only!
Francis ~ my biggest concern,his dead ball delivery is atrocious, three good crosses on Saturday out of the opportunities he had is simply not professional!
Do they not work on these things in training?????
Herd ~ what has he done wrong to Tilly? He should be playing week in week out and his abilty to cross a ball and long throws would and should cause problems for any defence. Do not understand why he is not playing.
Spencer and Paterson ~ play them....allow them to build some confidence and understanding as they are likely to be our strike force next season.
If the guys mentioned above had played close to thier true potential then I feel we would not be in the plight we are in.
We may have to draw a line under this season, relegation is now a very real threat, so why not let the players we know will be with us next season have a run this. With the loanees we have leaving at the end of this season we will have a very poor squad and I forsee relegation as a certainty next season and if we do go down this, we will struggle even in Division Two!
Crowds will be down to the 5k level too............
I sincerely hope not but by the end of February I think we will be in the relegation zone, no points from the next three games!
We were very poor against Tranmere and as I put on another thread if the players have not been paid this must affect their motivation on the pitch.
The players as a collective are not good enough based on the their performances this season. Without the fluke of Barney being fit and scoring, no one could forsee he would have such a good season as he did for us this, we would have been in the relegation zone already. His form did paperover the cracks that were clearly there for some time.
The most disppointing players for me this season.....
Macca ~ not the player he was and his outburst on Facebook although in my mind justified will probably mean he wont be with us next season.
Christophe ~ has generally been poor all season, how was he viewed to be good enough for a Premier club?
Moussa ~ this was the season to show his true potential and probably get the move to a bigger club....I think his performances this season have been very inconsistent and smacks of him believing the hype of last season.
Laurent ~ full of tricks but rarely an end result, cannot cross a ball and does not know when to pass....I know some think he is wonderful but I don't think we can afford to have such a 'luxury' player at this time. Not a starter, impact sub only!
Francis ~ my biggest concern,his dead ball delivery is atrocious, three good crosses on Saturday out of the opportunities he had is simply not professional!
Do they not work on these things in training?????
Herd ~ what has he done wrong to Tilly? He should be playing week in week out and his abilty to cross a ball and long throws would and should cause problems for any defence. Do not understand why he is not playing.
Spencer and Paterson ~ play them....allow them to build some confidence and understanding as they are likely to be our strike force next season.
If the guys mentioned above had played close to thier true potential then I feel we would not be in the plight we are in.
We may have to draw a line under this season, relegation is now a very real threat, so why not let the players we know will be with us next season have a run this. With the loanees we have leaving at the end of this season we will have a very poor squad and I forsee relegation as a certainty next season and if we do go down this, we will struggle even in Division Two!
Crowds will be down to the 5k level too............
I sincerely hope not but by the end of February I think we will be in the relegation zone, no points from the next three games!
TrueBlue
SJP Taxi & Private Hire ⭐️
Remember a picture is not even 1 second its the speed of light and somebody watching will have a less detailed but far greater data stream if you understand what I am saying
OldBlueLady
Junior Blues Coordinator⭐⭐🦐
Oh absolutely, but our thought processes also operate in a similar way, and Laurent is being judged on something that happened in a split second when to all intents he was quite possibly in pain from the take down.
There must've been team orders about who would take the penalty and I can't honestly see Laurent thinking it was him if Vernon was on the pitch.
EastStandBlue
Life President
Vernon grabbed the ball and Laurent tried to take it off him, Vernon looked toward the bench and Tilson pointed at Vernon to take it. Laurent shrugged his shoulders and walked off looking dismayed.
That's what I saw from the East Reds anyway.
TrueBlue
SJP Taxi & Private Hire ⭐️
If that was the case then you have to go with Laurent don't you? being the longer serving player?
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