Stadium Update

[united we stand]

Agreed - and for those supporters who continue to look at this through their rose-tinted glasses wake up and smell the coffee. For one thing I for one do not see how RM reneging on promises made to the Council (of a Borough we nearly all live in) can be viewed as 'a good thing' or 'proactive'. More importantly the Council agreed planning permission based on certain minimum criteria being met. It is RM who wants to change said criteria and because the Council aren't willing to cave in to his demands he is blaming them for his inability to deliver the project. Priceless.

I beleive the $6million was agreed 6 years ago, when we expected work to start. The world is a different place now . Like it or not I would expect any business to look at renegotiating something that was agreed this long ago . That is standard business practice. I see it as a good thing from the perspective of the football club . My post was very clear on this . It has nothing to do with rose tinted glasses, or 'wake up and smell the coffee' - both of which are condescending arrogant statements that indicate that you are more intelligent that those with a view point against yours , or that you know more and so can make a better more informed opinion – if the later is the case please tell.

Do I like Ron, or his business practices, or the way he blames everyone else --- No not at all, he has done a lot which does not sit well with me, but I am able to look at statements objectively without having an agenda.

It is proactive because he is putting pressure on the council, as has been suggested by many on here. It is good for SUFC for the reasons I gave in my last post ---

ps. following your logic I expect you to berate the council for not delivering on projects that they promised 6 years ago (that were not dependant on our cash) because their forecasts did not foresee the recession we are in. Its exactly the same thing, the council has to change its plans , as has Ron, as have many (most ?) businesses.

 

[RootsHallRoar]

well said Bielzibubz

 

[RootsHallRoar]

I don't understand all of the moaning on here.

We have people moaning that we will 'never see a 4th side' , and we have the same people moaning that 'he is going back on his promises to the council '. Surely if we pay the council less then Ron has more money to spend on the 4th side ?

People also moan about 'he just wants his pot of gold ' - the retail park . Well under the amended planning he cant built the retail park before the 4th side is built so can we please put this one to bed !

To me this is excellent news, if taken at face value,and I appreciate that is diffciult as it is Ron, we are closer than we have ever been before. It also explains why the tender ahs not been signed, and it gives a clear indication of the timetable that the club is working towards

Yes he is putting pressure on the council , why is that a bad thing ? He is also saying that he is willing to compromise. To me if the stadium is delayed by a few months, but it saves Ron several million pounds then surely that has to be a good thing? It deosn't matter if you like Ron or not, anything that helps his foancial security has to be good news for SUFC.

ps- I can't believe that a statement that says we are closer than ever to our new stadium provokes a debate on supporting a new clubs and starting again. I am not pro Ron, but I am Pro SUFC ,and I see this as good news for SUFC , I don't understand why others do not

Absolutely spot on, sir.

 

[Smiffy]

The statement would be more credible if Ron even alluded to reason why the Council didn't rubber-stamp the extension to the planning permission (ie SUFC being unwilling.unable to live up to their agreed liabilities). It seems to me that this statement is about setting up the Council as the bad guy either to put pressure on them ahead of the February meeting or because he knows that the whole house of cards is about to collapse.

Just my opinion.

Thats exactly what it is.

Ron taking his usual "back them into a corner" stance when things start going tits up.

Even though it is Rons own doing by reneging on yet another deal.

 

[SUFCFANS]

6 years ago an offer of 6million was a good offer. Today, in the current climate, an offer 2 or 3 million is an EXCELLENT offer!

 

[superblue24]

I tend to agree with Ron's ambitions even though I'm not his biggest fan.

When we were in the Championship a few years back we probably averaged 10-11K every week. I think if we had a bit of staying power in that division, we might pull more crowds still.....Bit difficult when your capacity is 12K and cant be increased. The new stadium is 100% the right thing to do otherwise we'll never generate the sort of gate receipts we need to be anywhere near competing.

Southend has a very large catchment area (Basildon, Hockley, Rayleigh, Rochford, South Woodham, Billericay, Chelmsford, Wickford, Benfleet to name a few) and if the club can start succeeding, it will only mean more and more fans coming to watch, especially if they're in the comfort of a new stadium complex.

 

[Smiffy]

6 years ago an offer of 6million was a good offer. Today, in the current climate, an offer 2 or 3 million is an EXCELLENT offer!

Maybe. But to be honest I don't think RM would of ever had the £6m in the first place.

It was clearly a "sweetener" to help get the plans passed, that has almost completely backfired on him.

The Council hold all the cards now and RM will be bricking it. Hence why he has suddenly come back into radar range.

 

[ldnfatso]

Ron Martin, News at Ten, talking Bollox!

 

[Pubey]

Maybe. But to be honest I don't think RM would of ever had the £6m in the first place.

It was clearly a "sweetener" to help get the plans passed, that has almost completely backfired on him.

The Council hold all the cards now and RM will be bricking it. Hence why he has suddenly come back into radar range.

It will have backfired if it's rejected, and been a master stroke if it's accepted. Let's give RM some credit because it's still in play and the pressure is on the Council IMO, because they know that the stadium and development and the club are important to Southend.

 

[onceknownasrab]

Maybe. But to be honest I don't think RM would of ever had the £6m in the first place.

It was clearly a "sweetener" to help get the plans passed, that has almost completely backfired on him.

The Council hold all the cards now and RM will be bricking it. Hence why he has suddenly come back into radar range.

That is all your opinion and not based on facts or knowledge. Why bother saying it? If we stuck to the facts, regardless of how few we have, we can all have a reasoned debate.

When you boil it down, a 6 million council grab to compensate for possible impacts on existing retail areas, is in itself scandalous. If it is impacting on other areas it is impacting on other retailers. The 6 million wont go to them. If the scheme is damaging then dont pass it. Full stop. But that does not appear to be the case. The council seem perfectly happy for the scheme to take place as long as they get a budget bung.

If FF was not being built by RM but say Branson and RB went public about the unacceptable and unreasonable demands of the council, then I suspect an awful lot of people would sympathise with him.

To follow whats going on we need to detach from who is applying and merely evaluate the rights and wrongs of the application and the council responses.

 

[MilkeySUFC]

He clearly talks about compromise with the council. I expect - as I did when I saw the original planning meeting notes - that Ron's looking to pay about £3.5Million.

I suspect the only hold up is that the compromise could not have been completed before or during the meeting.

I fully expect there to be agreement on a new figure around the £3.5M mark. It's a matter of when.

 

[Willie Coulson's Red Cheeks]

That is all your opinion and not based on facts or knowledge. Why bother saying it? If we stuck to the facts, regardless of how few we have, we can all have a reasoned debate.

When you boil it down, a 6 million council grab to compensate for possible impacts on existing retail areas, is in itself scandalous. If it is impacting on other areas it is impacting on other retailers. The 6 million wont go to them. If the scheme is damaging then dont pass it. Full stop. But that does not appear to be the case. The council seem perfectly happy for the scheme to take place as long as they get a budget bung.

If FF was not being built by RM but say Branson and RB went public about the unacceptable and unreasonable demands of the council, then I suspect an awful lot of people would sympathise with him.

To follow whats going on we need to detach from who is applying and merely evaluate the rights and wrongs of the application and the council responses.

I could not agree more. This is nothing more than a "legal bung" to the council - and why should an application fail on that? The application is either worthy of approval in its own right or it is not. The council should make a decision on whether the stadium is good for the town or not - and not on whether it is good for the council coffers!! It is a disgrace.

 

[Beefy]

£6m seemed excessive at the time. In the current climate and considering the financial problems of the football club it's clearly unobtainable and Ron & the club are justified in trying to get the figure reduced.

But surely the way to do that is to enter into negotiations - not turn up at the Council at 11.59 with a report that they don't have time to study saying that the payment should be cut by 75%. The Council would be well within their rights to decline the proposal and then everyone is screwed.

Maybe this is the way that all of these large property deals work out. But as someone who isn't in the industry to me it looks a very strange way of conducting business. Best case is that we're playing Russian Roulette with a bunch of faceless Councillors. That's why I wonder if there's more going on that we're not seeing.

If it works then brilliant. If it doesn't we're ****ed.

 

[Beefy]

I could not agree more. This is nothing more than a "legal bung" to the council - and why should an application fail on that? The application is either worthy of approval in its own right or it is not. The council should make a decision on whether the stadium is good for the town or not - and not on whether it is good for the council coffers!! It is a disgrace.

Well quite. But it was agreed on the back of this payment and now - at apparently the very end of the process - we've withdrawn it. If the deal now collapses then it's hardly the Council's fault.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I would be shocked if the council did not eventually give the green At the end of the day a couple of million for the kitty is better than nothing. Even if it is way short of the original £6m agreed. It is clear though that the council are losing faith in Ronalds ability to deliver. Hence as you rightly mention, the public flexing of muscles from Ron.

Unless another party comes in with the finances required. Then I think the council have no option but to accept a poorer deal. Or face potential backlash from the supporters, who Ron will whip up into a frenzy again if required

I'm not so sure. We will have to wait and see. One thing for sure is that Ron can have no excuses if thé green light is given

Certainly agree with your last point but I'm by no means sure that the council will actually go ahead and give that green light for what's now on the table.
There's also the additional question as to whether the chairman can come up with the reputedly offered 3.5 million, as he was clearly unable to finance the previous deal for 6 million,in the first place.

 

[Willie Coulson's Red Cheeks]

Well quite. But it was agreed on the back of this payment and now - at apparently the very end of the process - we've withdrawn it. If the deal now collapses then it's hardly the Council's fault.

I accept your point. My point is that councils should not be expecting / asking for a "legal bung" just to pass a large planning application in the first place. It is a point of principle.

 

[londonblue]

Maybe. But to be honest I don't think RM would of ever had the £6m in the first place.

It was clearly a "sweetener" to help get the plans passed, that has almost completely backfired on him.

The Council hold all the cards now and RM will be bricking it. Hence why he has suddenly come back into radar range.

If that were the case why has it taken him so long to try to renegotiate? Wouldn't it have been the first thing he did?

Personally I feel he had every intention of paying it, because at the time credit was cheap and easy to come by. It isn't now, so he's trying to reduce.

 

[Smiffy]

If that were the case why has it taken him so long to try to renegotiate? Wouldn't it have been the first thing he did?

Personally I feel he had every intention of paying it, because at the time credit was cheap and easy to come by. It isn't now, so he's trying to reduce.

For the same reason the stadium has gone from a 22,000 seater to a 14,000 seater.

Would us fans have been as keen to march to the Southend and Rochford Council offices for a 3 sided monstrousity?

He has dangled the carrot and is attempting to whip it away just before the donkey grabs it. But it would appear the donkey now has the *** ache and is considering kicking the man dangling it in the nuts.

 

[united we stand]

He clearly talks about compromise with the council. I expect - as I did when I saw the original planning meeting notes - that Ron's looking to pay about £3.5Million.

I suspect the only hold up is that the compromise could not have been completed before or during the meeting.

I fully expect there to be agreement on a new figure around the £3.5M mark. It's a matter of when.

Hi Milkey. I have not read the notes, can you post up where you are getting the 3.5 million figure from, or the rationale behind how you have arrived at this figure.

 

[Thorpe Groyney]

Perhaps we should also look at it from another viewpoint.

The vast majority of the people living in Southend-on-Sea don't support Southend United. 5,000 current average crowds, peaking at around 10,000 in the Championship, and taking up to 20,000 for a Cup Final. That in a population of 160,000. It can't be questioned, either, that a sizeable proportion of the support don't live in the town, too.

Now, that non SUFC-supporting electorate has seen the council fritter away millions already on an ill-planned renovation of Victoria Circus. They then find out that a previously agreed £6m payment due from the club to the council for the new stadium is reduced significantly or withdrawn completely

Those non-football loving locals would be pretty peeved at what may be seen as the council in effect throwing millions more away. The council are, as well, accountable to all the local electorate, not just those supporting Southend United. That just might be how the councillors see it.