Sri Lanka v England 3rd test at Galle

[number11]

I agree to a certain extent. However, I think you'll find that down the years the Test averages of England players have always been a bit lower than those from overseas. This is due to the pitches in England being more bowler-friendly, that they are elsewhere. Therefore, playing half their games on English soil has put them at a disadvantge in terms of their average. Take Sir Geoff, his Test average was around about 47. Had he been from the sub-continent or Australia, it would have, no doubt, been in the 50's. I would say that around 3 or 4 runs should be added to every England players average to get a true gauge of their Test batting abilities.

New Zealanders struggle with their averages in this respect too.

Yeah, but I still think, due to the factors I mentioned above (oh and better protection for batsmen such as helmets enabling them to play more balls safely) means for me the benchmark for a decent international average has risen from 40, and for a very good average has risen from 45. Id say Collingwood and Bell averages of lower 40's against current attacks is no more impressive then say Atherton, Steward and Husseins which are higher 30's but faced Ambrose/Walsh, WAsim/Waqar, Pollock/Donald, Macgrath/Gillespie

 

[C C Csiders]

Yeah, but I still think, due to the factors I mentioned above (oh and better protection for batsmen such as helmets enabling them to play more balls safely) means for me the benchmark for a decent international average has risen from 40, and for a very good average has risen from 45. Id say Collingwood and Bell averages of lower 40's against current attacks is no more impressive then say Atherton, Steward and Husseins which are higher 30's but faced Ambrose/Walsh, WAsim/Waqar, Pollock/Donald, Macgrath/Gillespie

Quite agree. If you were picking an England side of the last 20 years Atherton, Stewart and Hussein would all come into the reckoning whereas Collingwood and Bell would not.

 

[canveyshrimper]

I agree to a certain extent. However, I think you'll find that down the years the Test averages of England players have always been a bit lower than those from overseas. This is due to the pitches in England being more bowler-friendly, that they are elsewhere. Therefore, playing half their games on English soil has put them at a disadvantge in terms of their average. Take Sir Geoff, his Test average was around about 47. Had he been from the sub-continent or Australia, it would have, no doubt, been in the 50's. I would say that around 3 or 4 runs should be added to every England players average to get a true gauge of their Test batting abilities.

New Zealanders struggle with their averages in this respect too.

That is probably a fair point, I think I am right in saying that the only post war England batsman to finish with a career average over 50 was Ken Barrington. Hammond can be considered a post war player but he was at his peak pre 1939 and only played briefly after the war. It will be interesting to see how Pietersen fares if his career proves to be a long one. His current record of nearly 3000 runs in 33 tests is pretty impressive.

 

[C C Csiders]

That is probably a fair point, I think I am right in saying that the only post war England batsman to finish with a career average over 50 was Ken Barrington. Hammond can be considered a post war player but he was at his peak pre 1939 and only played briefly after the war. It will be interesting to see how Pietersen fares if his career proves to be a long one. His current record of nearly 3000 runs in 33 tests is pretty impressive.

Of post-war players, playing at least 15 Tests this is the list of the best averages for England:

Ken Barrington 58.67
Kevin Pietersen 51.60
Ted Dexter 47.89
Geoff Boycott 47.72
Peter May 46.77
Dennis Amiss 46.30
Graeme Thorpe 44.66
David Gower 44.31

 

[canveyshrimper]

Of post-war players, playing at least 15 Tests this is the list of the best averages for England:

Ken Barrington 58.67
Kevin Pietersen 51.60
Ted Dexter 47.89
Geoff Boycott 47.72
Peter May 46.77
Dennis Amiss 46.30
Graeme Thorpe 44.66
David Gower 44.31

Nice one, remind me I owe you some rep if it gets fixed. Didn't realise Sir Ted finished with such an impressive average.

 

[Grayson]

Shah is all nervous energy in contrast to Bopara's serenity.

This is my main gripe with Shah, he looks so agitated and uncomfortable at the crease. I'd always feel I could get him out as a bowler because he jerks so much. Bopara is the best prospect long-term (and arguably short-term too) as he is a class batsman and can bowl well too.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Today I actually went in the ground, hoping to see England wrestle the momentum back and take control of the game. Overnight it had rained and rained and rained. I turned up unsure what time play would start, with rumours circulating various times as ever. It turned out out to be an 11am start. England had a chance to make that crucial early breakthrough early but Cook, whilst we were discussing why on earth he was fielding in the gully, shelled a difficult chance, but one he should have taken. From there on the tone for the day was set. Jayawardene batted, and batted. Dilshan played some shots but at lunch it was looking a long day again and we were left ruing England's lack of bowling threat.

With tea approaching, it looked the same story and the series was slipping away, although Hoggy looked to have had Dilshan strangled down the leg-side, the hapless (hopeless?) Harper getting that one wrong as well. But life was breathed into England when Jayawardene looked to take a quick single to bring up 3 figures and an alert Alistair Cook superbly picked up and threw down the stumps underarm. Bopara made it an Essex double when he induced an edge from the keeper to the keeper. All of a sudden there was the prospect of England ripping through them and having a chance to win. However the interruption of tea was sufficient for Sri Lanka to compose themselves and Jayawardene batted calmly and Chaminda Vaas was largely untroubled as England again looked to lack the bowling and fielding to trouble Sri Lanka. Its now a case of will our batting be as impotent, or can our batsmen finally reach 3 figures.

Today's chant of the day:

We don't need no seats to sit in
We don't need no stands at all
No dodgy catches off the outfield
Harmy's going to bowl them all
Hey umpire, give us one good call
All in all its just another test match in Galle
All in all its just another test match in Galle

 

[C C Csiders]

And so, #5 in the Test match rankings awaits.

 

[Grayson]

Sri Lanka declared on 499-7, and we're 33-6. What a disgraceful performance from England in this test.

 

[number11]

Sri Lanka declared on 499-7, and we're 33-6. What a disgraceful performance from England in this test.

Disgusting performance. Similar to when we were in Pakistan.....dominant position in first test, threw away to go one down, then lsot another test meekly to lose 2-0.

If you pardon the saying, we really should be making Sri Lanka grovel. They have 3 top notch performers in Jayawardene, Sangakkara and Murali, but the rest should not be troubling us. Not really an impressive start for Peter Moores is it.

 

[C C Csiders]

Disgusting performance. Similar to when we were in Pakistan.....dominant position in first test, threw away to go one down, then lsot another test meekly to lose 2-0.

If you pardon the grave, we really should be making Sri Lanka grovel. They have 3 top notch performers in Jayawardene, Sangakkara and Murali, but the rest should not be troubling us. Not really an impressive start for Peter Moores is it.

And again I raise the question: what is the point of Ravi Bopara? He just gave his wicket away, at least some of the others were got out.

 

[BILLERICAY BLUE]

And again I raise the question: what is the point of Ravi Bopara?

Because if you don't play him, he doesn't learn.

 

[C C Csiders]

Because if you don't play him, he doesn't learn.

Won't do a great deal of learning getting out for a duck all the time, will he. He is frankly not up to this level and should not be exposed to it, at this stage in his career. He will go backwards rather than forwards. Now if he played for say Northants or Derbyshire would you all be quite so supportive of him?

 

[BILLERICAY BLUE]

Won't do a great deal of learning getting out for a duck all the time, will he. He is frankly not up to this level and should not be exposed to it, at this stage in his career. He will go backwards rather than forwards. Now if he played for say Northants or Derbyshire would you all be quite so supportive of him?

I think his efforts in the World Cup proved that he is up to this level. Anyone can get out for a duck, and anyone can play a poor shot or make a rash decision, just look at the rest of them in this innings, the only who has really been got out is KP.

Just a bit of food for thought, take a look at Steve Waugh. He was a very similar player to Ravi at this stage of his career, and struggled for the 1st 2-3 years of playing Test Cricket.

 

[C C Csiders]

I think his efforts in the World Cup proved that he is up to this level. Anyone can get out for a duck, and anyone can play a poor shot or make a rash decision, just look at the rest of them in this innings, the only who has really been got out is KP.

Just a bit of food for thought, take a look at Steve Waugh. He was a very similar player to Ravi at this stage of his career, and struggled for the 1st 2-3 years of playing Test Cricket.

Bloody hell, that's some comparison. I just do not see the need to have Bopara in the side, when there are superior batsman to him around, and that he is next to ineffecive with the ball in Test cricket. It's a wasted place.

 

[BILLERICAY BLUE]

Bloody hell, that's some comparison. I just do not see the need to have Bopara in the side, when there are superior batsman to him around, and that he is next to ineffecive with the ball in Test cricket. It's a wasted place.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Ravi is going to be the next Steve Waugh, but at a similar stage in their careers, you would never have said that SW would turn out how he did.

I just think Ravi's a young talented batsman, who needs to get a run of 10-15 games in the team to see if he's up to it. If not, with the amount of Test Cricket played these days, we've only lost a year, not 2 or 3 years as previously.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

A tired and disillusioned England today produced an abject display, which must rank alongside the most abysmal ever witnessed in international cricket.

For the first time this series, I actually missed some play, only about 5 minutes but the fact that I wasn't too bothered about it summed up the malaise hanging over English cricket at the moment.

Last night I'd had a long discussion over dinner about where the England team could head from here. It was one of the most depressing conversations I've had for a long time. England have been outbowled, outbatted and outfielded and - barring a miraculous recovery from injury from Flintoff and Simon Jones - I can't see any change to that in the future. Moreover, under Peter Moores there appears to be no masterplan or blueprint to win in the future. My 2002/03 Ashes tour was disappointing but I could look at 11 injuries suffered and the emerging young bowling talents of Simon Jones and Steve Harmison as potential for the future.

Today was abject. We went through the motions in the field, a tired Prior, whose keeping has detoriated in what was now the 3rd day in the field, dropped a relatively easy chance. For the first time in the series, Sri Lanka looked to push on. Jayawardene was easing onto his century and then double century and even Chaminda Vaas was looking comfortable and heading to his first test ton against proper(?) opposition until he skied the easiest of chances to Vaughan who somehow tried to fumble it, before holding onto it at the second attempt. Malinga tried to add some quick runs before Collingwood cleaned him up to ensure he heads up the bowling averages (3 wickets at 21, begging the question a lot of us have been asking - why hasn't he been bowled more?). Jayawardene then walked off (213*) leaving England needing 300 to avoid the follow on and save the game. On a pitch where Chaminda Vaas had compiled an untroubled 90, we didn't expect to be 33-6.

The collapse started when a tired Vaughan played no shot at a ball Vaas had coming back into him, although I thought it looked a touch high, the umpire had no doubt. Cook then pushed the ball straight to Dilshan and set off for a single which was never on, realised it wasn't on and sent Bell back, Bell was slow turning and was easily run out. 9-2 and we were left shaking our heads.

A spirited partnership of 13 for the 3rd wicket was soon to be the highlight of the session, as Cook was given out caught behind off Vaas and then KP was also adjudged caught behind off an absolute snorter ofa bouncer from Malinga. The prediction of 4 wickets down by lunch by the optimist sitting next to me was proving unerringly accurate. Still, lunch offered a chance to regroup. Straight after lunch, although his concentration may well have been distracted by the awful noise masquerading from the loudspeakers, Bopara played an awful shot, reaching outside off to chip to mid-on. 1,1,1,0 it was like watching binary cricket. Prior broke that pattern when he drove for 4 but was then beaten by one that kept low.

As we sat in shock, our attention turned to the lowest ever scores, relief was evident when Sideshow edged - naturally - for 4 to poass 45 and the 46ao at Trinidad. But that 46 was ag aisnt the legendary Curtly Ambrose, not against Chaminda Vaas on a pitch Vaas himself had just scored 90 on.

Feeble, inept, woeful, abject etc etc. But entirely predictable. Sri Lanka's tactics in Colombo and then Galle had worked: we are a broken side.

Its been chucking it down again, but I doubt even the tropical storms can save us now. English cricket has gone back 15 or 20 years.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

I think his efforts in the World Cup proved that he is up to this level. Anyone can get out for a duck, and anyone can play a poor shot or make a rash decision, just look at the rest of them in this innings, the only who has really been got out is KP.

Just a bit of food for thought, take a look at Steve Waugh. He was a very similar player to Ravi at this stage of his career, and struggled for the 1st 2-3 years of playing Test Cricket.

Agreed. I'm first and foremost an England fan. In fact Essex would be better off if Ravi spent 2 or 3 seasons in county cricket, but I think Ravi needs international exposure to continue to improve. He may have failed today, but he was by far from the only one.

Did KP actually glove his? There was some doubt. I'm guessing he didn't, but that is mainly because Harper gets more decisions wrong than right.

Cook didn't look happy at his decision either.

 

[C C Csiders]

Agreed. I'm first and foremost an England fan. In fact Essex would be better off if Ravi spent 2 or 3 seasons in county cricket, but I think Ravi needs international exposure to continue to improve. He may have failed today, but he was by far from the only one.

Did KP actually glove his? There was some doubt. I'm guessing he didn't, but that is mainly because Harper gets more decisions wrong than right.

Cook didn't look happy at his decision either.

The merest of flicks on KP's gloves. It didn't look out at the time, or on replay - but all the commentators were agreed it was out. I didn''t see a snick-o-meter.

Cook's was a fair decision - more disappointment on his part I guess.

I have a sneaky feeling one of Sidebottom, Hoggard or Harmison will get their first Test 50. Not that that will help, but it'll be something.

 

[BILLERICAY BLUE]

I think both decisions were right, there was definitely a noise on Cook's and the bat was well away from the body. I would hazard the disappointment was that Cook had been given out whereas Sangakarra was let off in almost identical circumstances.

KP's ball was a snorter, but he is now starting to have problems against the very straight bouncers.