Post-Match Thread and Ratings Southend United 2-2 Brentford

[united we stand]

Words can not express the feeling of dissapointment.

Every fan knew this was the most important match of the season so far. The players knew this as well . What happenend first half?? Were they even more nervous than we were and this was reflected in the play . I thought we were going to come out as Tigers from the first whistle, not as kittens. Unfair-- maybe, but thats how I feel.

ps - mate who sits in the family stand is suret their goal was offside - any other views on this ?

 

[united we stand]

i have to say i cannot believe some of the high scores on here to be honest. i'm thinking what did some of you watch last night and if you think some of those performances where 7's then maybe you belong in league 2.

christophe is a joke of a player, macca is not even half the player he used to be who gives the ball away countless times, he only goes sideways and i can't remember the last time he hit the target.

grant and franno are our best players and can't see us keeping hold of them at the end of the season. god i hope i am wrong though. vernon likes going to wrong way and has no goal threat at all. even though laurent scored twice lets be honest he was terrible last night. he could have easily laid the ball in the first half off to moose for a clear shot but hogged it and lost the ball all the time.

mildy done ok i think and i would be happy with him in goal next season. also thought mvoto in the second half was a rock, he won everything and i hope he carries on where he left off.

the passion and pride is a big problem, the first half was truly hard the watch, it meant so much to us to win but they didnt look bothered

but biggest

agree with every word

 

[TrueBlue]

Words can not express the feeling of dissapointment.

Every fan knew this was the most important match of the season so far. The players knew this as well . What happenend first half?? Were they even more nervous than we were and this was reflected in the play . I thought we were going to come out as Tigers from the first whistle, not as kittens. Unfair-- maybe, but thats how I feel.

ps - mate who sits in the family stand is suret their goal was offside - any other views on this ?

Was you the geezer who came charging up the back of the west mouthing off about our support?

 

[GBJ]

Was you the geezer who came charging up the back of the west mouthing off about our support?

LOL WTF did i miss??

 

[united we stand]

Was you the geezer who came charging up the back of the west mouthing off about our support?

if you want to put it like that - yes

In the heat of the moment I didn't articulate myself very well, heart leading head. I didn't mean to have a pop, I was trying to be encouraging- but it came out wrong. I understand what you are doing and I genuinely believe it makes a BIG difference to how the players perform , so to me it was , and always is massively important that we get behind the team when they need us most. My posts on here have always supported this logic.

I know there are many in W who care a lot lot more than I do, who invest more of their time , their money and their emotions supporting Southend than I ever have/will. These people are the life blood of Southend United and I wanted to try and give them a lift when they and the team needed it most

In summary like many I wanted to be able to go home last night and be able to say that I did every thing that I could to make a difference. Its just such a shame the way things have gone.

So appologies to anyone I upset, but I stand by what I was trying to acheive even if it did not come out very well.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Mildenhall 6.5 - usual assured display, getting himself in positions to make the save/catch look easy
Francis 7 - fantastic delivery, but the likes of Christophe and Laurent never look like putting away free headers
Herd 5.5 - dangerous at set pieces, but otherwise I remain to be convinced
Baldwin 6 - average
Mvoto 7.5 - very impressive. Looked a lot more mobile (ie fit?)
Grant 8 - every so often he steps it up and takes the game by the scruff of the neck
McCormack 5.5 - the effort was there, just not the quality
Christophe 5.5 - defensively fine, just doesn't offer anything going forward
Moussa 7 - wasn't involved nearly enough. Give him more ball. When he touched it things start to happen
Vernon 6 - good link-up play, but needs to offer more in the box
Laurent 5.5 - I know he scored twice (although one was probably an OG) but he really wasn't very good

 

[weststander]

i have to say i cannot believe some of the high scores on here to be honest. i'm thinking what did some of you watch last night and if you think some of those performances where 7's then maybe you belong in league 2.

I totally agree, the highest mark i would have given for last night would have been 7, to Laurent and only because he scored 2 goals, everyone else would have got 6's and 5's and even they would have been much less after the first half performances. We're certainly not in the bottom 3 in the league because we keep giving 8 & 9 rating performances.

 

[TrueBlue]

if you want to put it like that - yes

In the heat of the moment I didn't articulate myself very well, heart leading head. I didn't mean to have a pop, I was trying to be encouraging- but it came out wrong. I understand what you are doing and I genuinely believe it makes a BIG difference to how the players perform , so to me it was , and always is massively important that we get behind the team when they need us most. My posts on here have always supported this logic.

I know there are many in W who care a lot lot more than I do, who invest more of their time , their money and their emotions supporting Southend than I ever have/will. These people are the life blood of Southend United and I wanted to try and give them a lift when they and the team needed it most

In summary like many I wanted to be able to go home last night and be able to say that I did every thing that I could to make a difference. Its just such a shame the way things have gone.

So appologies to anyone I upset, but I stand by what I was trying to acheive even if it did not come out very well.

Your alright fella I understand your point it was just the way you went about it upset some of the lads up the back but we move on and get behind the boys for the next game!

 

[Ayrshire Blue]

Mildenhall 6 - Can't fault him for either goal but he needs to release the ball earlier, I lost count of the occasions last night we were two on two and he dithered before shanking it.

Francis 7 - Superb delivery every time, nice well worked free kick aswell
M'voto 7 - That was the M'voto we saw in September.
Baldwin 6 - His couple of attempted hoofs showed why he can't get in the Col U side, otherwise steady.
Herd 6 - Not his best performance but once again the throws are a threat.

Grant 8 - Superb, that is all.
Macca 7 - fits and starts, shooting needs to improve.
JFC 5 - Poor, that is all.
Moussa 7 - Bit of creativity back in the side, two good assists.

Vernon 6 - Runs around.
Laurent 7 - Last night summed up why he is such a frustrating player, hopefully this will give him some much needed confidence.


Kettle 6 - For once a fairly decent performance, although his officials were awful.

 

[Andy_S]

The traditional game of two halves. The first was completely clueless and gutless with a lack of any determination whatsoever, whilst we competed in the second and we were rewarded for it. Having two central midfielders who can't pass water and part like the red sea on a regular occasion is never going to help though. Surely, surely we've figured out the pair of them don't go together by now?

The lack of a substitution was utter madness. Everytime Laurent moved to the right he beat his man, so the simple solution would've been for Paterson to come on for crappy Christophe and move Laurent to the wing. Bizarre. When somebody in the East shouted bring on a striker, Tilly turned round and said **** off. Lovely. Seemingly Paterson is going to be given the Hooper/MacDonald treatment and is going to struggle to get a fair crack of the whip, whilst Vernon will get the Harrold treatment and play no matter how he performs.

Ratings:

Mildenhall 6: Had little to do really and was beaten by two cracking finishes. Cort's was probably the best finish from a striker I've seen in some months at the Hall.

Francis 7: Improved as the game went on and put in a stunning cross on more than one occasion.

Baldwin 6: Was a bit shaky tonight and played like the guy that normally wears the Captain's armband. Doh.

M'Voto 7: Much, much better. This was much more like the original M'Voto. Either he's now fully fit, or Bruce has told him to buck his ideas up. Either way, if he continues like that, I couldn't care less how long Barrett is out for.

Herd 6: He's struggled in the last couple of home games especially for some reason. Got better as the game went on though and will be a lot happier to be playing behind Moussa. Unfortunate not to score direct from a corner in stoppage time.

Grant 7: In the first half he was guilty of not giving the full blooded, 110% he's normally guaranteed to give. He picked it up in the second though, and apart from the ridiculous, selfish, long range shots, was great. I still can't believe he's being pushed out of position for tweedledee and tweedledum.

Tweedledee (Christophe) 5: Got better after the hour mark, but he couldn't have got any worse. Dreadful, apathetic display on the whole. Don't let the door hit you on your arse on the way out eh Jean.

Tweedledum (McCormack) 6: Quickly nip out the door when Christophe leaves eh? Quite how he stayed on the pitch after hissy fit after hissy fit in the first half I'm not sure, whilst he's still deluded enough to think he's going to score another goal as per Preston away. Stop being selfish and dim by hitting the bouncing ball week in week out! Please!?

Moussa 6.5: Was generally quiet in the first half, bar the lovely play to set up Laurent who then fired over the North Bank. In the second though he came alive and showed what we've been missing in the last three games. Is key to our last four games.

Vernon 6: Meh. General bog standard, lower league striker who doesn't bag many goals. And that's what this display summed up.

Laurent 6.5: Gets an extra half a mark for his goals. Had a spell in the second half in which he showed his ability at beating his man, but we need far more from him. I don't quite understand why we're playing him up front and I'm sure he doesn't either.

 

[Reg Martin]

Couldn't disagree more about the striker issue. Paterson has been pants when he has come on for us and couldn't hit a cow's arse with a banjo. 2 goals in 12 appearances (5 as sub) tells its own story. Tilly was right to leave it the way it was. We were all over them - why change it? It nearly came off and Laurent scored two goals surely justifying the decision to play him up front. Moose had two assists - good job I say.
I agree about Christophe though - he was awful. I would rather have O'Keefe personally.

Though I would agree that Paterson has struggled so far I think it's worth bearing in mind he is a young lad with little first team experience thrown into a struggling team and not getting paid for it either. He must be wondering what on earth he has done in signing for us.

 

[Ailsa Road Shrimper]

I disagree with the criticisms of Tilly because he didn't bring any strikers on, we simply don't have any decent options to bring on! Is Paterson really going to come on and score the winner? Although Vernon is nothing special I don't think there are any better options than him at the moment due to our ridiculously small squad size. As for Laurent, he was playing well for once and had two goals to his name!

 

[ibwiajwa]

Sorry my friend, completely 100% disagree with you!

Paterson has imo looked the part, and given more opportunities I think will score a lot more goals for us. As far as I am concerned he brings a lot more to the party than Vernon, who holds the ball up well, but has absolutely no goal threat whatsoever. Not playing with two strikers in a game of last nights importance was wrong (again imho). Not bringing a striker on to try and win the game, again imho was wrong. Laurent had probably his best 45 mins for the club last night. He's had 40 other games to do the same and failed miserably in the majority.

'We were all over them', can't agree with this. Yes, we played with a higher and far better tempo in the second half, but they probably had the best chance to score in the last minute when they broke away. Game was in the balanace throughout.

'It nearly came off', but it didn't my friend. Maybe if we had played with the same desire in the first half we may have got something from the game, but we didn't, we are a poor team with one or two half decent individuals. Nearly is not good enough.

Thoroughly enjoy the different opinions that people have!

Of course nearly is not good enough! My point is that Paterson would have been unlikely to change it - he has failed to do so up to now. He and Vernon as a combination does not seem to work. Laurent got two goals, which is as many as Paterson has got for the club in total, and worked hard all night. What more could he do? Tilson was showing faith in him and was right IMO.

 

[TravellingBlue]

Of course nearly is not good enough! My point is that Paterson would have been unlikely to change it - he has failed to do so up to now. He and Vernon as a combination does not seem to work. Laurent got two goals, which is as many as Paterson has got for the club in total, and worked hard all night. What more could he do? Tilson was showing faith in him and was right IMO.

You seem to be of the opinion that Paterson is not up to it. Fair enough, but from what I have seen, he is a very good young player who has already scored against MK and Charlton, comes here with a very good reputation and I thought was one of our best players at Leeds last weekend and he is still only 19 or 20.

You also seem to think that I wanted to take Laurant off and bring on Paterson - wrong. Laurent had his best half ever for this club (I will say again his last 40 appearances have been way below this performance) no way would I have taken him off. JFC, Macca even a defender should have come off and Paterson come on to give us another goal threat up front. We needed 3 points, we didn't get them, so not taking the chance means we may have given up an opportunity. I stand by what I said, I think Tilly should have made a substitution.

It's a good discussion though!

 

[ibwiajwa]

You seem to be of the opinion that Paterson is not up to it. Fair enough, but from what I have seen, he is a very good young player who has already scored against MK and Charlton, comes here with a very good reputation and I thought was one of our best players at Leeds last weekend and he is still only 19 or 20.

You also seem to think that I wanted to take Laurant off and bring on Paterson - wrong. Laurent had his best half ever for this club (I will say again his last 40 appearances have been way below this performance) no way would I have taken him off. JFC, Macca even a defender should have come off and Paterson come on to give us another goal threat up front. We needed 3 points, we didn't get them, so not taking the chance means we may have given up an opportunity. I stand by what I said, I think Tilly should have made a substitution.

It's a good discussion though!

It would have been irresponsible of Tilly to take off a central midfielder to put Paterson on - we would probably have lost the game as we are carved apart unbelieveably easily as it is and we clearly had the upper hand without making the change. One point is still better than none with several games to go.
When you said that Paterson looks the part, what did you mean? He has little pace (Laurent got in behind Brentford's back line on several occasions), lacks composure in front of goal and doesn't seem to be able to create much of an understanding with a partner.
I was troubled by your dismissal of Vernon's role too in your previous post. Vernon has 4 goals in 14 starts and Paterson has 2 in 7 (the Charlton goal was due to a major goalkeeping howler and the MK Dons one was a last minute consolation when the game was out of sight) - an identical ratio. However, as you said, Vernon held the ball up extremely well - something that Paterson isn't particularly good at - which was vital for us in getting back into the game.
Give Tilly a bit of credit! His options were extremely limited and he made the best call he could.

 

[TravellingBlue]

It would have been irresponsible of Tilly to take off a central midfielder to put Paterson on - we would probably have lost the game as we are carved apart unbelieveably easily as it is and we clearly had the upper hand without making the change. One point is still better than none with several games to go.
When you said that Paterson looks the part, what did you mean? He has little pace (Laurent got in behind Brentford's back line on several occasions), lacks composure in front of goal and doesn't seem to be able to create much of an understanding with a partner.
I was troubled by your dismissal of Vernon's role too in your previous post. Vernon has 4 goals in 14 starts and Paterson has 2 in 7 (the Charlton goal was due to a major goalkeeping howler and the MK Dons one was a last minute consolation when the game was out of sight) - an identical ratio. However, as you said, Vernon held the ball up extremely well - something that Paterson isn't particularly good at - which was vital for us in getting back into the game.
Give Tilly a bit of credit! His options were extremely limited and he made the best call he could.

This I am afraid is going to go on and on and on!

Firstly I quite like Vernon, he does hold the ball up well, but as for scoring 4 in 14, two of them have been penalties, and he's played 90 minutes every game, therefore by your own reconing (take away the penalties) Paterson is more productive than Vernon!!! A goal is a goal, regardless if it is a howler from the keeper, did you not celebrate when Paterson scored against Charlton? I certainly did and I also thought he was our best player on the night. (I will agree he had a poor game against Carlisle) he has looked young and bright in all the other games I have seen him play, his through ball to Vernon on Saturday at Leeds was the pass of the game - even though Vernon failed to score or deliver the pass to O'Keefe who was standing on his own in the six yard box! Peoples expectations of Paterson seem to massive because he is seen as the replacement for the legend that was Barnard. That seems to me to be very unfair. Just be patient and give him time remember Barny had four years with us.

The bottom line is, we drew a game of football that we needed to win. If Tilly had brought on another striker and we ended up losing the game, then I still would have supported Tilly's decision to bring on a striker! I just cannot see your point in not taking off the completely ineffectual JFC or even Macca and putting on a youngster who might just grab the winner! Whether that was Paterson or even Crawford, imho we should have brought on another striker!

 

[ibwiajwa]

This I am afraid is going to go on and on and on! Just be patient and give him time

A luxury we don't have.

 

[TravellingBlue]

A luxury we don't have.

I fear that he will have the time whilst playing L2 football next season as will some of our other youngsters, Crawford, Herd etc....

 

[ibwiajwa]

I fear that he will have the time whilst playing L2 football next season as will some of our other youngsters, Crawford, Herd etc....

True enough!

 

[TravellingBlue]

True enough!

Hey, lets just look forward to Saturday my friend and fingers crossed, all our strikers get on the score sheet!!

UTBs:clap: