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Post-Match Thread and Ratings Southend United 2-1 MK Dons

(quote) Barrett- Personally think that right now, his the most important player we have. Passionate, committed, determined- he gives absolutely everything. Won his headers, battled well against some very good MK strikers and put everything on the line for the team. 8 (quote)

and what's more Tilly 100% agrees. Absolutely the type of player and person you need in the position the team is in. When the going gets tough etc etc etc
 
Do we know Freedman is on £3k a week ?!

I to would like to see Walker or Scannell start next week though, I thought Scannell looked lively when he came on last night and gave us a bit of much needed pace up top, looked like he'd lost a few pounds aswell.
I seem to recall reading that Freedman is on the average wage of the squad as a whole, which is presumably around £1,500 a week, possibly lower. I think people just assume that he's on a big wage because he's played at a high level. The fact that he negotiated the deal himself without an agent suggests to me that he wasn't overly bothered about wages and that was what he said in public as well. From what I've been told, Shaun Goater was also on a pretty modest wage while he was here despite being an ex-Prem player.

The problem with Freedman is that he needs the ball to feet and he rarely gets that these days. Having said that, when he does he usually produces at least one bit of class per game. His flick for Barnard's goal against Bristol Rovers was sublime and against Oldham he produced a fantastic through ball for Laurent which was spurned. Even last night he sent Barnard clear and though the latter was given offside it looked very marginal to me.

At the moment I would say Freedman remains the best partner for Barnard. I know that's not saying much given our lack of options but his willingness to drop deep allows Barnard to play on the shoulder of the last man, and I'm not convinced Walker - and definitely not Scannell - can fulfil that role as effectively. The alternative is to play Laurent up front, which would definitely be an intriguing option, but that would weaken the right hand side.

For what it's worth, I do agree with Kay that Freedman worked very hard off the ball last night. He and Barney defended from the front extremely well, especially in the second half.
 
I seem to recall reading that Freedman is on the average wage of the squad as a whole, which is presumably around £1,500 a week, possibly lower. I think people just assume that he's on a big wage because he's played at a high level. The fact that he negotiated the deal himself without an agent suggests to me that he wasn't overly bothered about wages and that was what he said in public as well. From what I've been told, Shaun Goater was also on a pretty modest wage while he was here despite being an ex-Prem player.

The problem with Freedman is that he needs the ball to feet and he rarely gets that these days. Having said that, when he does he usually produces at least one bit of class per game. His flick for Barnard's goal against Bristol Rovers was sublime and against Oldham he produced a fantastic through ball for Laurent which was spurned. Even last night he sent Barnard clear and though the latter was given offside it looked very marginal to me.

At the moment I would say Freedman remains the best partner for Barnard. I know that's not saying much given our lack of options but his willingness to drop deep allows Barnard to play on the shoulder of the last man, and I'm not convinced Walker - and definitely not Scannell - can fulfil that role as effectively. The alternative is to play Laurent up front, which would definitely be an intriguing option, but that would weaken the right hand side.

For what it's worth, I do agree with Kay that Freedman worked very hard off the ball last night. He and Barney defended from the front extremely well, especially in the second half.

And as has been said many times this season, until we find a midfielder that can effectively pass the ball the above is not going to happen on a consistent basis.
 
I seem to recall reading that Freedman is on the average wage of the squad as a whole, which is presumably around £1,500 a week, possibly lower. I think people just assume that he's on a big wage because he's played at a high level.

Right. One more time...

Clarke was on roughly £3700. It's simple maths. Ron stated that there wasn't much difference in wages between players. So on that note, it doesn't take a genius to read between the lines and work out the more senior members of the squad; Barrett, Macca, Francis, Mildy and everyone's hero Freedman, will be on or around the same figure Clarkey was on.

Think about it, go back 2,3,4 weeks ago everyone was saying "where's the money gone, why do we owe £2m" etc. and many people said it was down to the wages being very high.

Would we rack up that much debt if the average wage was £1500?
 
And no we don't, it's a rumour perpetuated by those who don't rate him.

Come on Kay let's have it right, we both know he is one of the top wage earners at the club. Whether i like him or not, does not cloud my mathematical ability to work out basic equations
 
mildy - 7 couple of good save, kicking still always to laurent which is frustrating.

francis - 4 simple terrible. everytime he got the ball he hoofed it to no one, liability
barrett - 8 did a 2 man job because francis was that bad. put the effort in that makes him the legend that he is
herd - 7 really enjoy watching him, i really think tilly should let him get a few games under his belt and let him make the lb posistion his. he's talented enough.
grant - 6.5 few slip ups but generally did well. he always seems to be falling over the place all the time though. did a job out of posistion though.

christophe - 7 did well i think, constantly battled the whole game. thought he was going to get sent off though.
macca - 7 i think macca mopped up really well and dealt with everything. wish he had more of an attacking threat though.
moussa - 7 did a good shift, would love to see him taking on his man a little bit more though. should have scored in first half

freedman - 5 marching out the orders but literally did nothing the whole game. needs to put some more effort in
barny - 7 ran all game with not much luck, pen at the end was as cool as ice.

scannell - 7 liked the look of him when he came on. livened up the game a bit and gave us the boost we needed.just wished he could sort his fitness out.
 
Thought the ref was good tonight. Couldn't fault him on any of the bookings under the law. If you look at each incident in isolation they were all bookings based on what he saw.

Trouble with some sections of our crowd is that they red mist too quickly when it comes to refereeing decisions. I honestly think we are approaching the stage where every referee is going to need an escort of the pitch at half time and full time at the Hall.

To the football brainless out there who are on a referees back if he blows his whistle a split second later than they'd like - go get a brain because the whole referees a ************ stuff is getting tedious. Oh yeah, and to anyone who hasnt got perfect vision, shut up when it comes to passing referee comments about what happens on the other side of the pitch.

Referees at Roots Hall are now guilty until proven innocent.
 
i've just read a few ratings. i am seriously shocked a fair few people have given francis a 7. the question that pops into my head. 'what game were you watching'
 
What a win!! Amazing performace from the lads!!

Mildy - 7 -Made a very good save at 1-1, and he was looking for quick distribution, which was very good.

Grant - 6 - Did what he needed too, which is all we can want out of position.
Francis - 7 - Played very well, but where was he for their goal?
Barrett - 8 - Amazing performance, really helped his other defenders, as the others were all either out of position on inexperienced, real captains performance.
Herd - 7- Well played.

Laurent - 8 - This guy took the **** out of a very good left back, tricks and flicks, gives us so much excitement.
Macca - 7 - Got around, best game in a while
Christophe - 9 - Deserved MOTM, he was everywhere, best CM performance this season.
Moussa - 6 - Where has he gone?

Freedman - 6 - Didn't do a lot, one sublime pass to Barnard for his 2nd disallowed goal.
Barnard - 8 - What more can anyone want from a goalscorer, he had the ball infront of goal 3 times, and put it in the back of the net everytime, just two disallowed, would like to see the 2nd again, didn't look offside to me.

Subs:
Scannell - 7 - Chased well, and did the job I would imagine he was aked to do.


Ref first 90 mins - 0 - what the **** was he watching? Missed a stone wall pen just before the one he gave for handball.
Ref last minute - 9 - I think it was a pen, but I have seen them not given, and I didn't think he would give it
 
Right. One more time...

Clarke was on roughly £3700. It's simple maths. Ron stated that there wasn't much difference in wages between players. So on that note, it doesn't take a genius to read between the lines and work out the more senior members of the squad; Barrett, Macca, Francis, Mildy and everyone's hero Freedman, will be on or around the same figure Clarkey was on.

Think about it, go back 2,3,4 weeks ago everyone was saying "where's the money gone, why do we owe £2m" etc. and many people said it was down to the wages being very high.

Would we rack up that much debt if the average wage was £1500?

Liptak was on £1200 PW, FACT & never played, so if thats the lowest wage a pro will be getting, so we can guess that Herd won't be earning a great deal different. Dougie, I've heard is on nearer £5K, but that was RM's doing breaking the wage structure, as he wanted him at the club.

Sorry Kay, but you are looking at Dougie with Macca-like glasses. Dougie is shocking & doesn't deserve a place. The two open goals he missed at Gillingham spring readily to mind & even Revs scored more than him & look why he was moved on! Bring back Revs!!!
 
Dougie, I've heard is on nearer £5K, but that was RM's doing breaking the wage structure, as he wanted him at the club.

I believe this. Not just the wage figure, but mainly the idea of RM wanting Freedman at the club. IMHO this is probably RM's thinking;

"i'll get DF in, and his name alone will put a few more punters in the stands come game time, so it doesn't matter if we give him excessively high wages as we'll recoup them in attendence."

Now that's just my opinion, it could be wide of the mark, or it could be spot on. Who knows?

Like i've said, and probably will keep saying, his wages could go towards 1,2 maybe 3 players. The guy is finished. He cannot cut it at this level. One decent piece of play or one decent flick/shimmy/pass per game (when he does play that is) simply does not justify the crazy wage figure he is probably on.

I'd honestly rather see Southend play with 10 men, than watch that useless donkey lumbering around the pitch whinging, no sorry "encouraging" others around him.
 
Last edited:
Fantastic result last night, and its about time we beat that plastic Club, it really is.

Last nights performance was a decent one. I'm not one for match ratings but I think Moussa and Freedman where 6's and everyone else 7/7.5's. Not many stand out performers for us, but sometimes you need a good, solid, team performance, not a stand out individual with others off form.

The ref ruined what was a decent game between the whistling. He'd booked so many people in the first half, that most people where afraid to tackle in the 2nd half for fear of being sent off. Inbetween the whistling and bookings there was a good game threatening to break out.

I thought, overall, we was the better team, but they looked very dangerous on the break. They have the better players, just look at the subs that came on. We brought on Scannell, and they brought on players like Easter and Johnson, who would both start in our side. It shows how good the whole team performed tonight.

Was disappointed with the attendance, feels like a little while since we have had under 7,000 in a league game, but it wasn't helped by a dire turnout for MK Dons.

Anyways, like I say, I don't do match ratings, more a summary so here it goes.

Mildenhall - Good save in the second half from Easter's shot, and good hands from the header in stoppage time. I've rated him from the start, but he really is winning others over and long may it continue.

Grant - Not his normal position, and it showed. Was at fault for the goal, being sucked into the other centre forward, when Francis was there already. Left a big gap that the ball was played into. Made some cracking tackles as well. Is worth his weight in gold having played LB, RB, CB, CM and RM already this season.

Francis - Is not a centre half. We lose his attacking abilities when he is played through the middle, but having Laurent wide right doesn't make it too much of a problem. Played well enough, and grew the longer the game went on.

Barrett - Feel sorry for the bloke. Already he has partnered M'Voto, Heath, Morrison, Sankofa, Francis, Grant and JFC in about 20 odd games. Can't be easy to form anything like a partnership in there. Pathetic booking, but responded well. Solid.

Herd - Now, I've always thought he wasn't ready for a season or so and we should have got someone else in, but is beginning to prove me wrong. Am becoming a big Herd fan, but he hasn't really been tested defensively yet, and I think that may be where he falls short. One example, a throw in in front of the East Stand, Barrett is marking one of there forwards, and Herd follows the throw and leaves his guy unmarked, and the striker laid it out wide to Herd's man. Things like that will come with age and experience, but has certainly earnt a run in the side.

Laurent - I love him, my mate in the West hates him and I can see why. First half he was superb, beating Lewington at will, creating havoc and looking like a World beater, but he doesn't continue that into the second half in front of the West Stand. Still beat Lewington in the 2nd half, and he is often in League One teams of the season.

Macca - Carried on where he left off at Gillingham in the League. This is the Macca I have been crying out for since Bailey, Gower and Maher all left us. He has needed to step up to the plate being the senior midfield man, and is beginning to do so. Full of work, full of energy and one tackle in the second half (the one in the match photos) was superb.

JFC - Didn't think he'd scored at the time, and that proved to be the case. All of their players was trying to get him that second yellow card, and at half time I was really worried he'd be sent off and thought he may have been replaced, if we had the players available. Showed a calm head in the second half and performed well.

Moussa - Reverted back to the Moussa I never rated when he first broke through. Should have scored in the first half, but his radar was off and is becoming easy to defend against. Has definately bulked up, and looks a lot stronger but I think he has been off colour for a few weeks now. Would really like to see a left winger signed on loan before the loan window shuts. Is being played out of position, so can't be too harsh, but he isn't the player he was earlier on.

Freedman - Some very clever touches, and helps "coach" players during the game, but didn't perform that well. Like I said at the top, him and Moussa where 6's out of 10. He isn't being used in the right way, he drops off the centre halfs, but we don't look to play it into feet with him. Probably would have fitted in better with our double winning promotion side rather than the current team.

Barnard - He is god. So much composure to slot that last minute penalty away. His two "goals" that where offside showed how sharp he is in front of goal at the minute. He works extremely hard, wins an awful lot in the air for a man of his height, and is being rewarded with the goals. We need him to sign a new deal, we really do. Rumours of Ipswich, Coventry and Sheffield Wednesday looking at him, and you can see why.

Subs:

Scannell - Why wasn't Walker brought on? I haven't read the whole thread, so maybe its already been answered but seemed a bizare sub at the time. Run around a lot, put pressure on their centre halves, but isn't a forward.
 
I believe this. Not just the wage figure, but mainly the idea of RM wanting Freedman at the club. IMHO this is probably RM's thinking;

"i'll get DF in, and his name alone will put a few more punters in the stands come game time, so it doesn't matter if we give him excessively high wages as we'll recoup them in attendence."

Now that's just my opinion, it could be wide of the mark, or it could be spot on. Who knows?.
I think this sentence sums the debate up. The truth is that no-one really knows what the players are paid or how deals come about. It's all pure speculation unless you actually have access to a payslip.

You claim that Peter Clarke was on £3,700 a week; I heard that it was more like £2,500 and that Spencer Prior was actually the highest paid at £3k. Some claim Shaun Goater was on 6k; others have claimed £1,500.

And this is the point: it's all just random figures flying around on the rumour mill based on "what people have heard". What about other rumours claimed by people "in the know"? James Walker failed a drugs test; Francis Laurent was sacked for "gross misconduct"; we were about to sign Ray Parlour, etc. All utter bollocsk. Obviously there are a few on here who do have genuine contacts at the club but for the most part rumours circulated on here are well wide of the mark.

Going back to Freedman, surely no-one can deny that he was brilliant when he first joined us: he scored four goals in his first five appearances and was pulling defences apart. You can't then blame Ron or anyone else for the fact he was subsequently crocked against Orient and has struggled since. That's bad luck.

Unfortunately, as has been cited several times, the wages issue in itself is a double-edged sword. When we were in the Championship people were desperate for us to "break the bank" in order to buy players we couldn't afford and were annoyed when we couldn't compete. Even when we were back in League 1 there was a thread begging for the club to "break the bank" to match Leon Clarke's wages. Now we're seriously in debt and people are blaming Ron for "breaking the bank". Hindsight is a wonderful thing; trouble is, it's not in the future tense.

I'd honestly rather see Southend play with 10 men, than watch that useless donkey lumbering around the pitch whinging, no sorry "encouraging" others around him.
Self-righteous nonsense. If we'd played with 10 men last night we'd have got absolutely spanked. MK are an excellent footballing side and with only 10 players their defenders would have had ample time to bring the forward, pull our midfield out of shape and cut us open. As I said earlier, both Barney and Freedman worked hard and defended very well from the front last night, particularly in the second half, and it helped us to reduce the supply line to their flair players.
 
My understanding, fwiw, is that Peter Clarke was on by far our highest wages at £5k and went to Huddersfield for double that. Which would kind of back up the frustration clearly evident in Ron Martin at the AGM.
 
My understanding, fwiw, is that Peter Clarke was on by far our highest wages at £5k and went to Huddersfield for double that. Which would kind of back up the frustration clearly evident in Ron Martin at the AGM.

I very much doubt the £5K story, and I doubt Huddersfield would be offering an average L1 player £10K a week even with their wealthy owners.

From what I've heard Clarkey was our top earning but was around the £3K mark, with players like Barrett, Macca and Francis over £2K, and Freedman has come in alongside the top earners, but Barrett is actually the top earner. Like I say though, this is what I've heard. The same guy told me about Barnard signing for us, Sawyer was going back to Chelsea and Leon Clarke wouldn't be joining us after his loan spell. He has also told me that Dervite would sign last week on loan, Jeffers was joining us on loan and that Barnard would be signing a double your wages deal for another 3 seasons.
 
My understanding, fwiw, is that Peter Clarke was on by far our highest wages at £5k and went to Huddersfield for double that. Which would kind of back up the frustration clearly evident in Ron Martin at the AGM.

Hence why if Ipswich DO bid for Barney in January we have to accept it but try and get as much as we can. Hopefully then at least some of any fee received can be spent on a permanent replacement who can do the business.
 

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