Post-Match Thread and Ratings Southend United 2 -0 Northampton Town

[Shrimpergonzo]

When an opponents boss comes out and says he wants to spoil the game and make it dull

http://www.northampton-news-hp.co.u...ays-Cobblers/story-24897028-detail/story.html

I listened to the whole interview (5 mins.) with Chris Wilder on the BBC website and found it quite enlightening. He came to play a narrow 4 in midfield up against Timlin and JJOT and wanted to "spoil" the game and frustrate us by not giving our midfield any time on the ball. He was intending to keep at at 0-0 for as long as possible and then hope to nick something at the end by bringing on one or more of his creative players. Unfortunately for him, his plans were foiled by Murdoch's 1st half hamstring injury, another player going off at half-time with a head/neck problem and then his kamikaze goalkeeper!

We need to find a tactic that counteracts this as I think others will (and have) try the same thing, knowing how we like to play along the floor to utilise Payne's strengths etc. Unfortunately the only tactics that might work against this are long-ball (so by-passing their 4 midfielders) and the Sturrockesque long-balls into the channels which was what I think we were trying to do yesterday.

I found yesterday's game pretty dour until the penalty, although this I think was more Northampton's fault than ours. Had we scored early doors (what a story it would have been had JJOT's shot in the 5th minute gone in!) then it could have been a completely different game I think.

After we scored, I thought Weston came alive and looked pretty decent. Before that, I thought he was pretty poor and that's why I think he didn't deserve Man of the Match as he didn't perform for the whole match, just did well in a 15 minute spell before being taken off. Timlin would have been my MOTM as I think he did all the donkey work in midfield as JJOT is not an industrious partner like, say Deegan, Leonard or Clifford would have been.

Given the league results in November, I would say that Phil Brown is a decent bet for Manager of the Month - what a difference a month makes!

 

[leeblue]

He didnt say he wasnt able to get there though did he.....

Thats positional decision making, not a physical restriction. He still has to lead the line on his own, he gets plenty of support from Payne up with him but Corr has to provide 100% of the physical presence, he cant be every where.




Indeed, its always a bit harder in some ways to play well at home because you have the pressure of the crowd and the expectations, plus the oppostion set up to contain most of the time.

It wasnt a great performance, but we still had chances and restricted to Northampton to having none whatsoever.

Its a bit sad that winning 4 in a row , scored 2 goals in 3 of them, and being 5th and pushing for the automatics and people are still slating the team.

The real challenge is certainly the next two games, but if people cant enjoy the fact we have won 4 games and expect us to play like Barcelona every week then league two football is going to provide regular disappointment.

Those still moaning about things are those who for whatever reason decided they didnt like Phil Brown from the minute he came here and just will not budge, also we have too many people who believe that an opinion is actually a fact and can not seem to handle the fact that someone may have a differing opinion or view hence why it gets so bitchy on here of late.

 

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

He didnt say he wasnt able to get there though did he.....

Thats positional decision making, not a physical restriction. He still has to lead the line on his own, he gets plenty of support from Payne up with him but Corr has to provide 100% of the physical presence, he cant be every where.




Indeed, its always a bit harder in some ways to play well at home because you have the pressure of the crowd and the expectations, plus the oppostion set up to contain most of the time.

It wasnt a great performance, but we still had chances and restricted to Northampton to having none whatsoever.

Its a bit sad that winning 4 in a row , scored 2 goals in 3 of them, and being 5th and pushing for the automatics and people are still slating the team.

The real challenge is certainly the next two games, but if people cant enjoy the fact we have won 4 games and expect us to play like Barcelona every week then league two football is going to provide regular disappointment.

.
O.K. Jam, so I'm wrong, and the others that said it, and Glen Pennyfather as well, and you must be right then(As usual).
I'm asking you to watch for yourself. Corr in his best season would bomb into the box and power those headers in. Now the ball comes across and he has only just reached the edge of the penalty area.
Let me put it this way. How many headers on goal per game do you think he is having this season? And then think back to 2010-11 season when he scored 21 goals, a lot with his head. Apparently according to the stats, he has more crosses per game average this season to get on the end of.
The only time he seems to be there is corners and free kicks. He's way behind the play when the wingers get the ball. Pennyfather said he should be busting a gut to get on the end of some of these crosses, as they would be food and drink for him.

 

[chapperzUK]

.
O.K. Jam, so I'm wrong, and the others that said it, and Glen Pennyfather as well, and you must be right then(As usual).
I'm asking you to watch for yourself. Corr in his best season would bomb into the box and power those headers in. Now the ball comes across and he has only just reached the edge of the penalty area.
Let me put it this way. How many headers on goal per game do you think he is having this season? And then think back to 2010-11 season when he scored 21 goals, a lot with his head. Apparently according to the stats, he has more crosses per game average this season to get on the end of.
The only time he seems to be there is corners and free kicks. He's way behind the play when the wingers get the ball. Pennyfather said he should be busting a gut to get on the end of some of these crosses, as they would be food and drink for him.

In his first season he had Blair Sturrock to share the work with, now all the long balls go to him. How is he meant to win a header 30 yards out from goal and then be on the edge of the 6 yard box seconds later?

No one could do that, by the time he has won the header and landed the ball is at least 10 yards further up the pitch with quicker players getting on the end of it.

Going back to his first season, with Blair Sturrock going for the first long ball it leaves Corr to be in a more advanced position and be at least on the edge of the box to then run in to meet crosses. Now he has to try and do both jobs which is pretty much impossible.

Also, for someone who's legs have "gone", he was still closing down their players until the final minute.

 

[Supa Shrimpa]

I agree. He can't do both. We are set up for him to play deeper and bring Payne into the game.

 

[smudgster]

Football has nothing to do with entertainment for me, so no...football is not an entertainment business in my eyes, but you are more than entitled to view it that way.

I view it how I like, I dont seek your approval.

 

[leeblue]

I view it how I like, I dont seek your approval.

Love you xxxx

 

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

In his first season he had Blair Sturrock to share the work with, now all the long balls go to him. How is he meant to win a header 30 yards out from goal and then be on the edge of the 6 yard box seconds later?

No one could do that, by the time he has won the header and landed the ball is at least 10 yards further up the pitch with quicker players getting on the end of it.

Going back to his first season, with Blair Sturrock going for the first long ball it leaves Corr to be in a more advanced position and be at least on the edge of the box to then run in to meet crosses. Now he has to try and do both jobs which is pretty much impossible.

Also, for someone who's legs have "gone", he was still closing down their players until the final minute.

The ball is punted up to Barry Corr's head less than 25% of the time. How do you explain the rest of the time? Everyone knows that we pass wide until it finds a winger.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Wise man was Shanks.

You might be interested in David Pearce's Red or Dead a "fictionalised" account of Shank's time at Liverpool.

I loved the story of Shanks (after he'd retired), giving his raincoat to a working supporter in a cafe, when it was teeming down outside, on the basis of :-"You need it more than me."

Not a philosophy you hear much of these days.

 

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

You might be interested in David Pearce's Red or Dead a "fictionalised" account of Shank's time at Liverpool.

I loved the story of Shanks (after he'd retired), giving his raincoat to a working supporter in a cafe, when it was teeming down outside, on the basis of :-"You need it more than me."

Not a philosophy you hear much of these days.

Some of Shanks quotes. Brilliant.

"For a player to be good enough to play for Liverpool, he must be prepared
to run through a brick wall for me then come out fighting on the other side."


On one of Liverpools European trips, he was filling in the hotel registration form
where he wrote Football for occupation and Anfield for the address.

"Sir, said the receptionist, you need to fill in where you live.
"Lady", he replied, "in Liverpool there is only one address that matters and that is where I live."


"Of course I didn't take my wife to see Rochdale as an anniversary present.
It was her birthday. Would I have got married in the football season? Anyway,
it was Rochdale reserves."


"Some people believe football is a matter of life and death, I am very
disappointed with that attitude. I can assure you it is much, much more
important than that."


"If a player is not interfering with play or seeking to gain
an advantage, then he should be."


"If Everton were playing at the bottom of the garden, I'd pull the curtains."


To Tommy Smith, who tried to explain that his bandaged knee was injured:

"Take that bandage off. And what do you mean
about YOUR knee? It's Liverpool's knee!"


To the journalist suggesting Liverpool were in difficulties:

"Ay, here we are with problems at the top of the league."


To a translator, when being surrounded by gesticulating Italian journalists:

"Just tell them I completely disagree with everything they say!"


About the "This is Anfield" plaque:

"It's there to remind our lads who they're playing for, and to remind
the opposition who they're playing against."


To Alan Ball, who'd just signed for Everton:

"Don't worry, Alan. At least you'll be able to play close to a great team!"

 

[MK Shrimper]

You might be interested in David Pearce's Red or Dead a "fictionalised" account of Shank's time at Liverpool.

I loved the story of Shanks (after he'd retired), giving his raincoat to a working supporter in a cafe, when it was teeming down outside, on the basis of :-"You need it more than me."

Not a philosophy you hear much of these days.

That's pony :unsure:

 

[Jam_Man]

In his first season he had Blair Sturrock to share the work with, now all the long balls go to him. How is he meant to win a header 30 yards out from goal and then be on the edge of the 6 yard box seconds later?

No one could do that, by the time he has won the header and landed the ball is at least 10 yards further up the pitch with quicker players getting on the end of it.

Going back to his first season, with Blair Sturrock going for the first long ball it leaves Corr to be in a more advanced position and be at least on the edge of the box to then run in to meet crosses. Now he has to try and do both jobs which is pretty much impossible.

Also, for someone who's legs have "gone", he was still closing down their players until the final minute.

Indeed, if he isnt that mobile he wouldnt be chasing balls down in the 93rd minute when we are 2-0 up against 10 men.

As you say and as I said before, he is still being asked to lead the line and win the ball 30/40 yards out so Payne cant feed off him, how he is meant to do that and get in the box to meet crosses Im not sure.

.
O.K. Jam, so I'm wrong, and the others that said it, and Glen Pennyfather as well, and you must be right then(As usual).
I'm asking you to watch for yourself. Corr in his best season would bomb into the box and power those headers in. Now the ball comes across and he has only just reached the edge of the penalty area.
Let me put it this way. How many headers on goal per game do you think he is having this season? And then think back to 2010-11 season when he scored 21 goals, a lot with his head. Apparently according to the stats, he has more crosses per game average this season to get on the end of.
The only time he seems to be there is corners and free kicks. He's way behind the play when the wingers get the ball. Pennyfather said he should be busting a gut to get on the end of some of these crosses, as they would be food and drink for him.

If you actually read what I said I am not saying Pennyfather is wrong. He said he isnt getting in their for the crosses and I dont disagree, as per the above though, he cant be bombing in to the box when he has to also win the ball outside of the box.

Even Corr has said in an interview his role isn't allowing him to get into those sorts of positions.

The ball is punted up to Barry Corr's head less than 25% of the time. How do you explain the rest of the time? Everyone knows that we pass wide until it finds a winger.

He still has to be in a position to receive the ball in case it is played to him, and not just punted up either.

 

[mrsblue]

I have said this a thousand times which is Corr is often isolated and being battered by CB's!

Northampton knew how to stop us and were comfortable until the red and penalty!,Without that pen we could still be playing now and not score.

Corr has my sympathy as he constantly plays with his back to goal and rarely has the chance to face the play.

 

[Jam_Man]

I have said this a thousand times which is Corr is often isolated and being battered by CB's!

Northampton knew how to stop us and were comfortable until the red and penalty!,Without that pen we could still be playing now and not score.

Corr has my sympathy as he constantly plays with his back to goal and rarely has the chance to face the play.

For once we agree.

Problem is he plays that role so that the likes of Payne can play in the "hole" behind him. Someone needs to lead the line and hopefully Payne will prosper from the work he does there. The only other option is to have two strikers and that limits where Payne can fit in.

 

[mrsblue]

For once we agree.

Problem is he plays that role so that the likes of Payne can play in the "hole" behind him. Someone needs to lead the line and hopefully Payne will prosper from the work he does there. The only other option is to have two strikers and that limits where Payne can fit in.

Jack would prosper even more playing behind 2 forwards IMO as his quick feet and speed of thought would allow him to get further up the pitch,ATM Corr tries to feed him little lay offs but they rarely come off as Barry is constantly under pressure trying to even control the ball let alone lay it accurately .

Man Utd play 352 and are starting to look better and better.Phil again IMO has to be cleverer against the better teams simply because we are an easy team to nullify,we have zero swagger and at best IMO we are workmanlike and grind out results rather than playing teams off the park.

 

[Jam_Man]

Jack would prosper even more playing behind 2 forwards IMO as his quick feet and speed of thought would allow him to get further up the pitch,ATM Corr tries to feed him little lay offs but they rarely come off as Barry is constantly under pressure trying to even control the ball let alone lay it accurately .

Man Utd play 352 and are starting to look better and better.Phil again IMO has to be cleverer against the better teams simply because we are an easy team to nullify,we have zero swagger and at best IMO we are workmanlike and grind out results rather than playing teams off the park.

We have tried 352 and it didnt work , Man Utd even binned it for a while, and only reverted to it last week.

I cant see how we can play Payne with two strikers without compromising the team, this 4411 formation seems the right one to utilise him in and with two strikers he would be expected to track back more and not get in the advanced positions he currently can.

If playing teams off of the park is a minimum requirement in League Two then disappointment awaits, we havent done that regularly for years and the football is still far more attractive than under Sturrocks reign, even if the goals fewer. A little more spark would be nice, but we arent going to be Barcelona of the lower leagues, even with the little Messi...

 

[fbm]

Jack would prosper even more playing behind 2 forwards IMO as his quick feet and speed of thought would allow him to get further up the pitch,ATM Corr tries to feed him little lay offs but they rarely come off as Barry is constantly under pressure trying to even control the ball let alone lay it accurately .

Man Utd play 352 and are starting to look better and better.Phil again IMO has to be cleverer against the better teams simply because we are an easy team to nullify,we have zero swagger and at best IMO we are workmanlike and grind out results rather than playing teams off the park.

To be fair, we played teams off the park earlier in the season - Oxford, Morecambe, Wimbledon (both games) and Exeter but didn't win.

 

[mrsblue]

We have tried 352 and it didnt work , Man Utd even binned it for a while, and only reverted to it last week.

I cant see how we can play Payne with two strikers without compromising the team, this 4411 formation seems the right one to utilise him in and with two strikers he would be expected to track back more and not get in the advanced positions he currently can.

If playing teams off of the park is a minimum requirement in League Two then disappointment awaits, we havent done that regularly for years. A little more spark would be nice, but we arent going to be Barcelona of the lower leagues, even with the little Messi...

Wilder knew how we would play and for over an hour his awful team which had no attacking threat were heading for a point or possibly better.Our problem under the system we use is when the opponent has severe attacking threat we then become cornered as we cannot get up the pitch in numbers,I love Jack but he ain't superman he needs support in numbers.

 

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

Jam. I understand that Corr leads the line and has his back to goal. Me and others are talking about when the ball is going wide, and the cross comes in and our tallest player up front is slowly just arriving, miles too late. I'm sure Phil Brown doesn't tell him to play the target man roll, and stay just outside the box. He is meant to be our aerial threat. The next most forward player is Payne. Surely you don't think all those crosses are for him.
So you are now thinking of excuses as to why he doesn't get in the box and at the end of crosses. Can you please tell me, who are they crossing the ball to?

 

[mrsblue]

To be fair, we played teams off the park earlier in the season - Oxford, Morecambe, Wimbledon (both games) and Exeter but didn't win.

Those 4 home games we scored 2 goals !You cannot win football matches scoring just twice in 6 hours of home football it's ridiculous .