RIP Tony Benn

[londonblue]

socialism
n
1. (Economics) an economic theory or system in which the means of production, distribution, and exchange are owned by the community collectively, usually through the state

Perhaps you could let me have your view of Socialism.

Try this:

Wikipedia

There are many varieties of socialism and there is no single definition encapsulating all of them.[6] They differ in the type of social ownership they advocate, the degree to which they rely on markets or planning, how management is to be organised within productive institutions, and the role of the state in constructing socialism

Anyway, we digress. The simple truth is a very honourable man whose principles led to him being evicted from the House of Commons when his dad died and he inherited the family title, and then fighting to be allowed to denounce his title so that he could continue as an MP.

You've got to really want it to go that far...

 

[steveo]

Try this:

Wikipedia

Fair enough, it seems there is indeed a number of types of socialism, most of the ones I found see to be very similar on the ownership front:

so·cial·ism [soh-shuh-liz-uhm] Show IPA


noun

1.

a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

I suppose we will have to assume that Benn's type of socialism was the "I've got my wealth, now you should all share yours" variety.

At least Bob Crowe was true to his version, staying in his council house despite earning 145 grand a year.

 

[londonblue]

Apparently in failing health he sold his £3 million house to move into a 750,000 apartment. Shame really, he could have kept the house and put his old mate Scargill up for a few months.

Do you know how much he paid for it, and how long he had lived there? For example, when my in-laws got married they bought a house for £5000. It has just been sold (not by them I might add - they moved out long ago) for £2.5m

 

[steveo]

Do you know how much he paid for it, and how long he had lived there?

No idea. The fact remains it was apparently sold for 3 million when he downsized and it seems contrary to his beliefs to own a house of that value.
From what I've heard, socialist Lord Football owns a massive property as well but keeps quiet about it.

 

[Thorpe Groyney]

I'm somewhat amused that some people's 'knowledge' of political systems appear to be come straight from either a quick google or wikipedia search.

Socialism, in my opinion, is where a product or service is made for use by the public at large. Which is where it differs from capitalism, who products and services are made for the purposes of personal or company profit. This is purely a broad, generalised view, gained from my own life experiences, so is bound to differ from others.

The common theme running through this, though, is the greed of the human race. We are all greedy to a certain extent. It may be a new tv we want, perhaps a nicer purse or wallet. A new key fob or a new car to go with the key fob. It's degrees of greed that seem to be a blight on all political systems.

Was Tony Benn a true socialist? Only he and his immediate family know. Sure, you can point to the comparative wealth, and quote how much his home was worth. That, however, is knowing the price of something without knowing the value. Do we know how he used his home other than family residence? Or how he spent the money that came his way either by inheritance or earned? How many causes, individuals, benefited from who he was, what he stood for, what he donated?

It's something none of us know and just speculate on, usually from a automated mindset depending on which way we vote at election. All I know is that British politics is a worse place without the likes of Tony Benn.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

All I know is that British politics is a worse place without the likes of Tony Benn. [/I]

This.:thumbsup:

 

[OldBlueLady]

This.:thumbsup:

I agree, I'd rather face a Labour party cabinet full of Tony Benns than Tony Blairs.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I agree, I'd rather face a Labour party cabinet full of Tony Benns than Tony Blairs.

Ha!.Tony Benn would be a lot harder to clone than Bliar.:smile:

 

[Pubey]

I agree, I'd rather face a Labour party cabinet full of Tony Benns than Tony Blairs.

That cabinet would stink of tobacco and typhoo tea.

 

[OldBlueLady]

That cabinet would stink of tobacco and typhoo tea.

Better than stinking of a load of bull ****!

 

[londonblue]

No idea. The fact remains it was apparently sold for 3 million when he downsized and it seems contrary to his beliefs to own a house of that value.
From what I've heard, socialist Lord Football owns a massive property as well but keeps quiet about it.

Firstly, that's based on your view of socialism, and as we have both discovered there's more than one definition. Secondly, just because he bought a house that has gone up in value doesn't mean he should move out.

Moreover, hasn't he just done what you would expect of him? Use his own savings to pay for himself in later life rather than burden the state?

A quick question for you. Do you consider yourself rich?

 

[steveo]

Firstly, that's based on your view of socialism, and as we have both discovered there's more than one definition. Secondly, just because he bought a house that has gone up in value doesn't mean he should move out.

Moreover, hasn't he just done what you would expect of him? Use his own savings to pay for himself in later life rather than burden the state?

A quick question for you. Do you consider yourself rich?

Our views obviously differ but I find it hard to see how a person who says everyone should share their wealth can be rich himself and not see a conflict of views. However, as far as I know Benn may have given most of his fortune away so if he did fair play to him.

No I don’t consider myself rich but it’s all relative. I can mostly afford to do what I want to do and buy the things I want to buy, but I still have to work to pay for it. I suppose I would consider someone who does not need a regular income to be rich. That said, I don’t really have any aspirations to be rich as I really don’t know what I would do all day, and I’ve often speculated that if I won a ridiculous amount of Euromillions money, the most enjoyment I would get would be from giving it to people I know who would appreciate it.

 

[londonblue]

Our views obviously differ but I find it hard to see how a person who says everyone should share their wealth can be rich himself and not see a conflict of views. However, as far as I know Benn may have given most of his fortune away so if he did fair play to him.

No I don’t consider myself rich but it’s all relative. I can mostly afford to do what I want to do and buy the things I want to buy, but I still have to work to pay for it. I suppose I would consider someone who does not need a regular income to be rich. That said, I don’t really have any aspirations to be rich as I really don’t know what I would do all day, and I’ve often speculated that if I won a ridiculous amount of Euromillions money, the most enjoyment I would get would be from giving it to people I know who would appreciate it.

I heard a quote once that said something along the lines of "you know you're rich when you earn an income on your income", which I though just about sums it up. Basically, that you don't need to work, your investments make enough for you to live on.

My personal view of wealth is that I don't begrudge people anything if they have worked for it. I do have a problem with people that have a superior attitude because of their wealth, especially if they have done nothing to earn it, i.e. they inherited it. That is something that cannot be said of Tony Benn. He may have inherited a lot of money (he may also not have done...), but he doesn't use it as a way of making himself out to be better than anyone else, and that is what I respect. I don't actually care how much money he has, or how he came about it because he seems to be a decent bloke, and treats people the right way.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

That is something that cannot be said of Tony Benn. He may have inherited a lot of money (he may also not have done...), but he doesn't use it as a way of making himself out to be better than anyone else, and that is what I respect. I don't actually care how much money he has, or how he came about it because he seems to be a decent bloke, and treats people the right way.

He is dead you know.

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

You don't have to like someone's politics to accept that they're a person of principle and integrity.

I hated Thatcher's stance on just about everything, but I also accept she did what she genuinely thought was for the best.

Which was the view of the British voting class hence why the conservative party stayed in power for so long after a period of, dare I say it, Tony Benn like policies.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

[/B]
Which was the view of the British voting class hence why the conservative party stayed in power for so long after a period of, dare I say it, Tony Benn like policies.

Really?

Perhaps you'd like to specify which particular "policies" in the Wilson/Callaghan governments between 1974-79 were "Tony Benn like",in your opinion, (or even in the Wilson governments between 1964-1970)?

 

[londonblue]

Very fitting.

BBC

 

[Gremlin]

The fact remains it was apparently sold for 3 million when he downsized and it seems contrary to his beliefs to own a house of that value.

Do you know for sure that his beliefs weren't the reason for the sale?

 

[steveo]

Do you know for sure that his beliefs weren't the reason for the sale?

Not for sure but he moved to sheltered accommodation presumably due to his ailing health and advancing years.

 

[londonblue]

Not for sure but he moved to sheltered accommodation presumably due to his ailing health and advancing years.

In that case I'll ask my question again:

Moreover, hasn't he just done what you would expect of him? Use his own savings to pay for himself in later life rather than burden the state?