racist chanting

[The 4th man]

Quote[/b] (HUMBLEPIE @ Nov. 16 2004,15:23)]

Quote[/b] (The 4th man @ Nov. 16 2004,15:07)]And for you town dwellers, you may not have noticed over the last 50 years(there have been far more considerable benifits , I thought an easier observation might help) but , nearly all your local takeaway places would never be classed as of being pure anglosaxon, and their proprioters have not caused a colapase into something resembling the last days of Gamoura or Rome !

And not all of them would have arrived au legal .

I'd hardly call Kebab,Chinese and Indian takeaways a benefit and yes I know a lot of illegals work in them for poor pay and living conditions....and the authorities do nothing about it.

So the intergration into the local community (and i was just using the takeaway industry as a most obvious example.) Is not a reflection of succesful migration of what would be deemed imigrants.

Scooby :

ive pm'ed you.

 

[Wessex Blue]

Quote[/b] (Spaceman Spiff @ Nov. 16 2004,14:51)]

Quote[/b] (Firestorm @ Nov. 16 2004,14:38)]

Quote[/b] (Wessex Blue @ Nov. 16 2004,14:28)]

Quote[/b] (Firestorm @ Nov. 16 2004,14:23)]The people you refer to are Illegal immigrants, therefore are not entitled to NHS , social security or any other benefits.

Are you seriously telling me that the local authority isn't obliged to house them and that if they're ill the NHS won't treat them?
Quite frankly I don't believe that for a moment.

Not if they do not have the relevant papers,

However if they are granted asylum its a different matter.

They are then allowed to stay until the hearing and the subsequent decision is made.

In the main illegal immigrants earn their keep working illegally for employers who would rather pay cash in hand, thus saving themselves money, and they do not worry about the employment regulations.

Much as I'm firmly on the anti-racism side, I would think that hospitals would treat anyone who came through their doors on the basis of need - regardless of their legality... surely that was the basis on which the NHS was founded? Regardless of your position on immigration and asylum, surely no-one would advocate turning away someone in need of urgent medical attention.

I'd also like to point out that I'm not a 'lefty'... far from it I've been called Attila on here more than once  

Depends on the illness Spiff, broken leg or a road traffic accident can happen to anyone anywhere. You shouldn't be refused treatment for these ailments.

However health tourism is something completely different. Coming to the UK specifically to get treatment for HIV fall into this bracket and yes I do object to that. It's very expensive to treat, they'll be treated for years and it inevitably reduces the budget available to the local health authority to treat others (IE you and me).

I'm not arguing about treatment on the basis of race, that's irrelevant. Treatment for serious long term illnesses should be given on the basis of entitlement. Health tourists should be excluded as they're a drain on an already overstrained resource.

 

[Wessex Blue]

Quote[/b] (The 4th man @ Nov. 16 2004,15:28)]

Quote[/b] (HUMBLEPIE @ Nov. 16 2004,15:23)]

Quote[/b] (The 4th man @ Nov. 16 2004,15:07)]And for you town dwellers, you may not have noticed over the last 50 years(there have been far more considerable benifits , I thought an easier observation might help) but , nearly all your local takeaway places would never be classed as of being pure anglosaxon, and their proprioters have not caused a colapase into something resembling the last days of Gamoura or Rome !

And not all of them would have arrived au legal .

I'd hardly call Kebab,Chinese and Indian takeaways a benefit and yes I know a lot of illegals work in them for poor pay and living conditions....and the authorities do nothing about it.

So the intergration into the local community (and i was just using the takeaway industry as a most obvious example.) Is not a reflection of succesful migration of what would be deemed imigrants.

Scooby :  

 ive pm'ed you.

How is working in a takeaway for crap money, with no rights or protection, a probably sleeping 6 to a room indicative of successful integration? That's expolitation not integration.

 

[HUMBLEPIE]

Quote[/b] (The 4th man @ Nov. 16 2004,15:28)]

Quote[/b] (HUMBLEPIE @ Nov. 16 2004,15:23)]

Quote[/b] (The 4th man @ Nov. 16 2004,15:07)]And for you town dwellers, you may not have noticed over the last 50 years(there have been far more considerable benifits , I thought an easier observation might help) but , nearly all your local takeaway places would never be classed as of being pure anglosaxon, and their proprioters have not caused a colapase into something resembling the last days of Gamoura or Rome !

And not all of them would have arrived au legal .

I'd hardly call Kebab,Chinese and Indian takeaways a benefit and yes I know a lot of illegals work in them for poor pay and living conditions....and the authorities do nothing about it.

So the intergration into the local community (and i was just using the takeaway industry as a most obvious example.) Is not a reflection of succesful migration of what would be deemed imigrants.

Scooby :  

 ive pm'ed you.

not nit picking you called it a benefit....I'm not surprised our health conscience goverment picks on burgers,fish and chips and confectionary as health risks, but never mentions ethnic offerings to our diet over the last 50 years might have a bearing as well....

 

[The 4th man]

Quote Wessex Blue :

However health tourism is something completely different. Coming to the UK specifically to get treatment for HIV fall into this bracket and yes I do object to that. It's very expensive to treat, they'll be treated for years and it inevitably reduces the budget available to the local health authority to treat others (IE you and me).

On a serious note !!! Your right , however as the true figures for these actually cases are very rarely shown (Daily Mail and Express mearly seem IMHO to use them for copy selling and are often quoted from estimates anyway ), how can we really form an accurate picture ?

 

[Wessex Blue]

Quote[/b] (The 4th man @ Nov. 16 2004,15:49)]Quote Wessex Blue :

However health tourism is something completely different. Coming to the UK specifically to get treatment for HIV fall into this bracket and yes I do object to that. It's very expensive to treat, they'll be treated for years and it inevitably reduces the budget available to the local health authority to treat others (IE you and me).

On a serious note !!! Your right , however as the true figures for these actually cases are very rarely shown (Daily Mail and Express mearly seem IMHO to use them for copy selling and are often quoted from estimates anyway ), how can we really form an accurate picture ?

With difficulty I agree, however if you take TMWLT's example you can quickly see how relatively small number of people fitting that category can have a large impact on a Health authority's budget.

 

[The 4th man]

Quote[/b] (Wessex Blue @ Nov. 16 2004,15:47)]

Quote[/b] (The 4th man @ Nov. 16 2004,15:28)]

Quote[/b] (HUMBLEPIE @ Nov. 16 2004,15:23)]

Quote[/b] (The 4th man @ Nov. 16 2004,15:07)]And for you town dwellers, you may not have noticed over the last 50 years(there have been far more considerable benifits , I thought an easier observation might help) but , nearly all your local takeaway places would never be classed as of being pure anglosaxon, and their proprioters have not caused a colapase into something resembling the last days of Gamoura or Rome !

And not all of them would have arrived au legal .

I'd hardly call Kebab,Chinese and Indian takeaways a benefit and yes I know a lot of illegals work in them for poor pay and living conditions....and the authorities do nothing about it.

So the intergration into the local community (and i was just using the takeaway industry as a most obvious example.) Is not a reflection of succesful migration of what would be deemed imigrants.

Scooby :  

 ive pm'ed you.

How is working in a takeaway for crap money, with no rights or protection, a probably sleeping 6 to a room indicative of successful integration? That's expolitation not integration.

I think i just stated this a most obvious example of an integration into a local community by where anarcy has not come about by their mere precence alone.


The explotation of employees within any industry is irrelevant of cultral or racal background.  Profit hungry arse wipes sadly seem to be ecoded with in the human genome !

 

[The 4th man]

Quote[/b] (Wessex Blue @ Nov. 16 2004,15:53)]

Quote[/b] (The 4th man @ Nov. 16 2004,15:49)]Quote Wessex Blue :

However health tourism is something completely different. Coming to the UK specifically to get treatment for HIV fall into this bracket and yes I do object to that. It's very expensive to treat, they'll be treated for years and it inevitably reduces the budget available to the local health authority to treat others (IE you and me).

On a serious note !!! Your right , however as the true figures for these actually cases are very rarely shown (Daily Mail and Express mearly seem IMHO to use them for copy selling and are often quoted from estimates anyway ), how can we really form an accurate picture ?

With difficulty I agree, however if you take TMWLT's example you can quickly see how relatively small number of people fitting that category can have a large impact on a Health authority's budget.

Then a place to look, would be into why the production of medicences and medical equipment is such a high profit industry.

And how was it permitted that such a vital part of any society has been permitted to become the next big cash cow of the fiscal world. Anyone buying shares should really go for Bio tech companies and genome reserach

(and that all started about 5 years ago )

 

[Wessex Blue]

Quote[/b] (The 4th man @ Nov. 16 2004,16:00)]

Quote[/b] (Wessex Blue @ Nov. 16 2004,15:53)]

Quote[/b] (The 4th man @ Nov. 16 2004,15:49)]Quote Wessex Blue :

However health tourism is something completely different. Coming to the UK specifically to get treatment for HIV fall into this bracket and yes I do object to that. It's very expensive to treat, they'll be treated for years and it inevitably reduces the budget available to the local health authority to treat others (IE you and me).

On a serious note !!! Your right , however as the true figures for these actually cases are very rarely shown (Daily Mail and Express mearly seem IMHO to use them for copy selling and are often quoted from estimates anyway ), how can we really form an accurate picture ?

With difficulty I agree, however if you take TMWLT's example you can quickly see how relatively small number of people fitting that category can have a large impact on a Health authority's budget.

Then a place to look, would be into why the production of medicences and medical equipment is such a high profit industry.

And how was it permitted that such a vital part of any society has been permitted to become the next big cash cow of the fiscal world. Anyone buying shares should really go for Bio tech companies and genome reserach

(and that all started about 5 years ago )

I agree but that's globalisation my friend...! It doesn't benefit us or the third world, it's there to enhance the profits of a small number of US mega corporations who are already more powerful than many Govt's.

 

[Perth Bambi]

People are saying we shouldn't treat immigrants because they don't pay taxes, but if we are going to go down that road maybe the non tax paying Brits shouldn't get hospital treatment either then there is no difference between people of different race or ethnicity and only between who has contributed to the NHS.
But i don't think many people would agree with that.

 

[Hong Kong Blue]

I think globalisation is a good thing which benefits us and the third world.

As gross generalisations are clearly the way forward in the immigration debate I also think that anyone that has the get up and go (and the means) to take such a massive step as to move to a foreign country probably has more to offer - if given a chance - than your average pure anglo-saxon welfare scrounger who I subsidise to lounge at home and smoke like a chimney in front of Trisha.

 

[The 4th man]

Quote[/b] (Wessex Blue @ Nov. 16 2004,16:13)]

Quote[/b] (The 4th man @ Nov. 16 2004,16:00)]

Quote[/b] (Wessex Blue @ Nov. 16 2004,15:53)]

Quote[/b] (The 4th man @ Nov. 16 2004,15:49)]Quote Wessex Blue :

However health tourism is something completely different. Coming to the UK specifically to get treatment for HIV fall into this bracket and yes I do object to that. It's very expensive to treat, they'll be treated for years and it inevitably reduces the budget available to the local health authority to treat others (IE you and me).

On a serious note !!! Your right , however as the true figures for these actually cases are very rarely shown (Daily Mail and Express mearly seem IMHO to use them for copy selling and are often quoted from estimates anyway ), how can we really form an accurate picture ?

With difficulty I agree, however if you take TMWLT's example you can quickly see how relatively small number of people fitting that category can have a large impact on a Health authority's budget.

Then a place to look, would be into why the production of medicences and medical equipment is such a high profit industry.

And how was it permitted that such a vital part of any society has been permitted to become the next big cash cow of the fiscal world. Anyone buying shares should really go for Bio tech companies and genome reserach

(and that all started about 5 years ago )

I agree but that's globalisation my friend...! It doesn't benefit us or the third world, it's there to enhance the profits of a small number of US mega corporations who are already more powerful than many Govt's.

There in lies our propblem , visions of the few dictate the lives of the many.

And sadly their all seem to be old gits with glassies on , propably all short sighted

Yorkshire , i agree , this i suppose is as much a moral issue as a purely practical one, (not to completey ignore the fears the other side of this argument.) Also wouldnt the super rich fall into this catagorey (tax loops holes etc .)

Heres a suggestion how about lobbying for a UN wide health service based apon the NHS but incorporating the talents of the UN countries , cofunded by said countries, no more worrying about E11 forms .
Maybe this should move to the pub now ?

 

[CANV]

whilst being at a bit of a tangent.. seeing as rich people pay for everyone elses do gooding.. why not give each person a vote for each pound they pay in tax.. that way those who foot the bill get to choose the government and all those tart pop stars who whisk their dough off shore then pontificate about charity can shut the fk up as well.. also the student vote wouldnt count for jack either which is always a good thing

 

[Napster]

Quote[/b] (CANV @ Nov. 17 2004,14:18)]also the student vote wouldnt count for jack either which is always a good thing

on the contrary, the amount they pay for fags and alcohol they contribute quite a lot

 

[CANV]

er dont they ponce all their fags and drink cheap 2.5 per cent pish in the student bar at 11p a pint or something like that?

 

[The 4th man]

Quote[/b] (CANV @ Nov. 17 2004,15:18)]whilst being at a bit of a tangent..  seeing as rich people pay for everyone elses do gooding.. why not give each person a vote for each pound they pay in tax..  that way those who foot the bill get to choose the government and all those tart pop stars who whisk their dough off shore then pontificate about charity can shut the fk up as well..  also the student vote wouldnt count for jack either which is always a good thing

I thought thats how it worked any way ? Its called donating to party funds as i recall  

No your right , those rich people have worked all their lifes for they own purposes. And fully deserve to control the lazy workshy layabouts who dont share their visions of what life should be and simply continue along their own paths .

I surrender myself to someone with a greater portfolio. !

 

[Beefy]

Quote[/b] (Hong Kong Blue @ Nov. 16 2004,15:15)]Anyone remember the excellent "11 men against 11" which was a TV drama about a football club having everything go wrong which could? It was shown around 10 years ago and closely mirrored the goings on at Roots Hall at the time.

One of the sub-plots involved a group of racist football fans. They spotted a black man about to get into a BMW and so went to teach him a lesson, only to realise with horror half-way through that they were beating up City's star striker and City's only chance of staying up ("Oh no we've just relegated City"). When hearing about racist fans I always laugh and think of this scene.

haha that was classic

"Sorry, we thought you were black!"

"I am black"

"Yeah, but you're one of our blacks".

I think its shocking that anyone can oppose the NHS offering treatment to anyone in this country who has AIDS, regardless of where they are from. I'm definately in favour of a serious re-thinking of Britain's immigration policy, but if people are here who need the help of our health service then we have an obligation to do what we can for them and I wouldn't want to live in a Britain that wasn't like that.

Anyway TMWLG, I take it you were out in Madrid tonight.....