Promotion and relegation 2019/20 season

[Westcliff DGS]

If Prem and Championship complete that really minimises it I think.

The trouble they have more generally is that the EFL is a limited company and effectively the rules and regulations at the beginning of the season were a contract between them and the individual clubs.

If they then change those rules mid season and it adversely affects that club (e.g. Tranmere) then that club has a strong case. In simple terms they contract with each club that promotion and relegation would happen only if the season is completed and now they are saying something different- hence then Tranmere or whoever has a strong case in law per the article. (this we have known all along of course)

It is then further not helped by the EFL trying to make changes to their competition rules/articles mid season when those same rules/articles it appears provide that such changes can only be for the, or a, following season notwithstanding the above.

Its then further complicated by the argument that as a limited company the EFL is governed by the Companies Act that provides, it would seem, that such changes requires a 75% vote in favour (EFL know they can't get that so changed the requirement to 51%).

So all in all mess- as the article says probably now avoiding legal challenges is all but impossible. Still they don't have to present lawyers with such unnecessary open goals..

We shall see- they might somehow get lucky (although it would be luck they singularly don't deserve..)

I agree re changing the rules half way through, the need to adjust them now for going forward so nothing like this happens again. But for this season that isnt going to help.

 

[kentblues]

I agree re changing the rules half way through, the need to adjust them now for going forward so nothing like this happens again. But for this season that isnt going to help.

Absolutely- crazy not to have something in the rules about what happens if the season does not end especially if they still want promotions and relegations to apply. An inexplicable oversight- impossible to believe their legals/contract people didn't raise this so assume EFL just said that will never happen..

 

[GBJ]

Thinking out loud here....

One way or another, the powers-that-be wanted everything wrapped up by June 30th, right? Otherwise it would affect players contracts.

The players have had three months off, and will probably require some form of a pre-season style training regime, to get those fitness levels back up to standard. Obviously some clubs have gone back, but we have not.

Then we factor in the government guidelines, which states that behind-closed-doors games, might be possible from June 1st (next Monday) leaving a window of 4 weeks to fulfil the remaining fixtures. Without any form of pre-season.

Personally, I cannot believe that we’ll see any more football this season.

 

[MK Shrimper]

Personally, I cannot believe that we’ll see any more football this season.

To be fair we saw very little before the lockdown.

 

[Westcliff DGS]

If Prem and Championship complete that really minimises it I think.

The trouble they have more generally is that the EFL is a limited company and effectively the rules and regulations at the beginning of the season were a contract between them and the individual clubs.

If they then change those rules mid season and it adversely affects that club (e.g. Tranmere) then that club has a strong case. In simple terms they contract with each club that promotion and relegation would happen only if the season is completed and now they are saying something different- hence then Tranmere or whoever has a strong case in law per the article. (this we have known all along of course)

It is then further not helped by the EFL trying to make changes to their competition rules/articles mid season when those same rules/articles it appears provide that such changes can only be for the, or a, following season notwithstanding the above.

Its then further complicated by the argument that as a limited company the EFL is governed by the Companies Act that provides, it would seem, that such changes requires a 75% vote in favour (EFL know they can't get that so changed the requirement to 51%).

So all in all mess- as the article says probably now avoiding legal challenges is all but impossible. Still they don't have to present lawyers with such unnecessary open goals..

We shall see- they might somehow get lucky (although it would be luck they singularly don't deserve..)

Yes i agree to pretty much everything.

I am not 100% sure if there is some sort of caveat in the rules that states if a majority vote is gained that allows such changes to be made then the majority verdict will be taken. If there is such a caveat the Tranmere (or whoever) would have signed up to the rules knowing this and therefore the case is less than it may be thought.

I am not sure if there is, Ive read them but everything is all over the place and I am not the legal person, i dont remember reading / seeing something like that but that doesn’t mean it isnt just means my age is catching up with me

 

[Westcliff DGS]

Absolutely- crazy not to have something in the rules about what happens if the season does not end especially if they still want promotions and relegations to apply. An inexplicable oversight- impossible to believe their legals/contract people didn't raise this so assume EFL just said that will never happen..

Yep definitely, they were not fit for purpose (which was what i was mentioning when I made a mention how some one said it could be comparison to the gas industry a few weeks back now i think - still dont see that comparison myself)

 

[Westcliff DGS]

Thinking out loud here....

One way or another, the powers-that-be wanted everything wrapped up by June 30th, right? Otherwise it would affect players contracts.

The players have had three months off, and will probably require some form of a pre-season style training regime, to get those fitness levels back up to standard. Obviously some clubs have gone back, but we have not.

Then we factor in the government guidelines, which states that behind-closed-doors games, might be possible from June 1st (next Monday) leaving a window of 4 weeks to fulfil the remaining fixtures. Without any form of pre-season.

Personally, I cannot believe that we’ll see any more football this season.

That was the ideal date but they also had July and possibly August as backups. UEFA are playing the european competitions in AUgust so the everything would hopefully be done by then

 

[kentblues]

Yes i agree to pretty much everything.

I am not 100% sure if there is some sort of caveat in the rules that states if a majority vote is gained that allows such changes to be made then the majority verdict will be taken. If there is such a caveat the Tranmere (or whoever) would have signed up to the rules knowing this and therefore the case is less than it may be thought.

I am not sure if there is, Ive read them but everything is all over the place and I am not the legal person, i dont remember reading / seeing something like that but that doesn’t mean it isnt just means my age is catching up with me

Whoever is the legal person must be sitting very uneasy..

 

[Westcliff DGS]

Whoever is the legal person must be sitting very uneasy..

From my side our legal person is sitting nicely, guessing either the EFL or Tranmere may not be, depending if the caveat is there.

 

[Stuart W]

Would make me laugh big time if the legal shenanigans take months and months to resolve, and we end up at....next March.
Oh yes, wasn't that when I said they should complete this season?

 

[GBJ]

That was the ideal date but they also had July and possibly August as backups. UEFA are playing the european competitions in AUgust so the everything would hopefully be done by then

Again, just thinking out loud, What would happen in the event of several players being out of contract at the end of June, and clubs not wishing to renew their contracts?

Would it be a case of, the club carries on as best they can?

Temporary rolling contracts?

It’s not beyond reason, that a club could end up losing several first team players on July 1st, and being forced to finish games with a youth team.... which might actually suit us ?

 

[Colorado Shrimper]

Again, just thinking out loud, What would happen in the event of several players being out of contract at the end of June, and clubs not wishing to renew their contracts?

Would it be a case of, the club carries on as best they can?

Temporary rolling contracts?

It’s not beyond reason, that a club could end up losing several first team players on July 1st, and being forced to finish games with a youth team.... which might actually suit us ?

Indeed it might. You never know, we might even get the points to stay up. That's why I firmly oppose any meek surrender and the 'we deserve to go down' narrative.

 

[FiremanBlue]

Anyone heard how Stephen Humphries and Sol Campbell relationship is going lately ?

 

[GBJ]

Indeed it might. You never know, we might even get the points to stay up. That's why I firmly oppose any meek surrender and the 'we deserve to go down' narrative.

Sure, I get that, and I don’t disagree with you at all mate. In fact, I wouldn’t give up until it was beyond mathematically possible.

But as it stands, we’ll need the EFL’s independent Disciplinary Commission to be very lenient with us, with regards to our three outstanding charges.

We’re bound to be deducted three points minimum (the three we gained against Lincoln).

That will leave us 19 adrift, with 27 to play for... although if you factor in our GD, we’re essentially 20 adrift. And that’s if we don’t receive any further punishment (which incidentally I don’t think we will, unless of course Ron actually does attempt to sue the EFL)

Is it likely our youngsters will win 7 of the remaining 9 games?

 

[Colorado Shrimper]

Sure, I get that, and I don’t disagree with you at all mate. In fact, I wouldn’t give up until it was beyond mathematically possible.

But as it stands, we’ll need the EFL’s independent Disciplinary Commission to be very lenient with us, with regards to our three outstanding charges.

We’re bound to be deducted three points minimum (the three we gained against Lincoln).

That will leave us 19 adrift, with 27 to play for... although if you factor in our GD, we’re essentially 20 adrift. And that’s if we don’t receive any further punishment (which incidentally I don’t think we will, unless of course Ron actually does attempt to sue the EFL)

Is it likely our youngsters will win 7 of the remaining 9 games?

No mate, not likely. But **** it, I'm an eternal optimist, you never know.

 

[GBJ]

Anyone heard how Stephen Humphries and Sol Campbell relationship is going lately ?

Ooooooooh

?

 

[Westcliff DGS]

Again, just thinking out loud, What would happen in the event of several players being out of contract at the end of June, and clubs not wishing to renew their contracts?

Would it be a case of, the club carries on as best they can?

Temporary rolling contracts?

It’s not beyond reason, that a club could end up losing several first team players on July 1st, and being forced to finish games with a youth team.... which might actually suit us ?

As far as i am aware clubs can extend loans if the parent clubs are willing, and you are allowed to offer a short term extension to those with expiring contracts. But if the season were to continue i have no clue how many clubs will take the latter option, would think they may the first option if they can (i know some prem clubs have said they would extend their loaners with out any costs to the loaning club), as they would be behind closed doors so the cost could be too much.

 

[Austin the Shrimper]

Anyone heard how Stephen Humphries and Sol Campbell relationship is going lately ?

what’s this about?

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

The points deduction we were under risk of there is the ineligible player where we might lose the points from that game.

We will find out soon enough.

It’s unfortunate that the journalist does not detail out the offences and potential penalties. They rarely do- it’s lazy as they could do the bit of extra work but it’s easier just to be a post box.

You will never find, however hard you look, a single instance of a club getting a points penalty just for late payment of wages..this should give a degree of comfort (it does to me at least)

I think the likely punishment is a suspended points deduction.

The League have sign-posted their direction of travel and a suspended penalty is hard to argue against as it's in the club's hands.

It then comes down to how comfortable are you that Ron won't breach again next season. You seem to be more confident than I am.

 

[BriggBlue]

It then comes down to how comfortable are you that Ron won't breach again next season. You seem to be more confident than I am.

I reckon our recent re-financing could help with this, I also think that the EFL need to be careful about setting a precedent given the number of clubs that will be cutting it very close financially in the next few months