Promotion and relegation 2019/20 season

[kentblues]

I’m sure it was an Echo / Chris Phillips article from early March. I can’t find it now but there’s this from the BBC.

Southend & Macclesfield given EFL charge for failing to pay players

Southend United and Macclesfield Town are charged with misconduct by the EFL for failing to pay their players on time.

www.bbc.co.uk

The points deduction we were under risk of there is the ineligible player where we might lose the points from that game.

We will find out soon enough.

It’s unfortunate that the journalist does not detail out the offences and potential penalties. They rarely do- it’s lazy as they could do the bit of extra work but it’s easier just to be a post box.

You will never find, however hard you look, a single instance of a club getting a points penalty just for late payment of wages..this should give a degree of comfort (it does to me at least)

 

[Lester Bangs]

Ok, well fingers crossed we start on zero. It’ll be a tough enough season without this added problem.

I do seem to remember reading that an aggravating factor was that late payment of wages occurred on more than one occasion. This meant that the threat of a points deduction was significantly increased.

Hopefully though, if there’s no precedent, it won’t come to that.

 

[GBJ]

1. If (and it is an if as having an ineligible player on the pitch for a minute has precedent of no points penalty being applied) points are deducted it is the points from that game (this season). The EFL have had ample time to rule on this- the fact they haven't bothered to date probably suggests they see little urgency as the sanction would be housekeeping with no impact on the season. Pronbaly they will take the 3 points away and our points total this season reduced.

2. On non-payment of wages its groundhog day. You obviously feel its very likely that the EFL will single us out for special treatment as the first club to have points deducted for this. Despite the fact that the EFL and clubs chose not to bring it in beginning of this season and my post #929 where the EFL and clubs are looking at bringing it in for the 20/21 season along with the wage cap. There are now a number of EFL clubs who also have not paid wages on time this season, and there will be many more. They needn't fear a points deduction either.

I'm not sure its fingers in the ear. It just based on all precedent and reports of what is the position of the EFL & the clubs. The PFA (to the extent they are even relevant as an organisation any more) have been jumping down on all sorts of issues and collectively the clubs have now well and truly put them back in their box.

So I am pretty confident based on the above there will be no points deduction beginning of next season. We can of course disagree and have the debate- but given the above I think saying we are very likely to be getting that points deduction beginning of next season is perhaps somewhat overstated?

The fact is this: we were charged with misconduct in January and subsequently referred to the EFL’s Disciplinary Commission, for them to handle the proceedings.

In March, we breached those same rules, and were again charged with misconduct, and were again referred to the Disciplinary Commission, along with another misconduct charge for fielding the ineligible player.

The Disciplinary Commission - as set out in The EFL rules, section 8 Paragraph 92 - has the power to impose fines, points deductions and even removal of membership, if they so wish. It can also decide whether to impose those sanctions straight away, or defer them.

Personally, I don’t know what will happen this season, or next season. Its anyone’s guess atm. But if we did decide to poke the proverbial bear with court cases, then the possibility exists that it will end badly for us.

You’re right, there is no precedence for any of these worst case scenarios, but be assured that they do have the power to wield it, if they choose to.

These are unprecedented times, and we shouldn’t ignore the possibility of unprecedented actions

 

[Maldon Shrimper]

So Ron gets a letter or email to say be a good boy and vote the way we want or face the consequences if you dont that's blackmail

 

[BILLERICAY BLUE]

So Ron gets a letter or email to say be a good boy and vote the way we want or face the consequences if you dont that's blackmail

Ron doesn’t have to do anything, he can let Tranmere do his work for him

 

[kentblues]

So Mark Palios spoke just now on TalkSport. They are proposing various solutions that will see promotion but no relegation with the numbers in the leagues adjusted back over 1/2 seasons.

He specifically did not rule out legal action if needed.

One thing I didn’t like the sound of was he was asked if he would consider a compromise of a one-off relegation playoff verses AFC Wimbledon- he said such a creative solution might be considered!!

Anyway there it is

 

[GBJ]

So Ron gets a letter or email to say be a good boy and vote the way we want or face the consequences if you dont that's blackmail

No, Ron won’t get any warning or heads up, as he won’t need it.

He’ll know what his options are, and he’ll know the potential risks of those options.

 

[kentblues]

Guy on Twitter, delighting in the tag The Village Idiot, questioning the basis of the various strands of Tranmere’s potential legal case suggesting she is wrong, and on what basis she thinks her view has any validity..

Her answer, based on my 30 years qualified as a barrister :-)

Also looks like the EFL are struggling to remember to pass things onto the clubs- something being urgently rectified it appears

The EFL would probably do well to take this combination of 30 years a barrister and ex FA Chief Executive and Chartered Accountant a little more seriously..

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

I don't suppose it's comparable but both Toulouse (tfc) & Amiens took their decision of being relegated to Ligue 2 to court and this evening their appeal was rejected.

"Le recours du TFC contre sa relégation en Ligue 2 est rejeté par la justice, a-t-on appris ce vendredi soir. Son président Olivier Sadran avait lancé une procédure devant le tribunal administratif de Paris."

 

[philtalkin]

So Mark Palios spoke just now on TalkSport. They are proposing various solutions that will see promotion but no relegation with the numbers in the leagues adjusted back over 1/2 seasons.

He specifically did not rule out legal action if needed.

One thing I didn’t like the sound of was he was asked if he would consider a compromise of a one-off relegation playoff verses AFC Wimbledon- he said such a creative solution might be considered!!

Anyway there it is

Wimbledon won’t agree to this. Why would they? They’d have to drag the rest of the relegation threatened teams into the mix.

 

[kentblues]

I don't suppose it's comparable but both Toulouse (tfc) & Amiens took their decision of being relegated to Ligue 2 to court and this evening their appeal was rejected.

"Le recours du TFC contre sa relégation en Ligue 2 est rejeté par la justice, a-t-on appris ce vendredi soir. Son président Olivier Sadran avait lancé une procédure devant le tribunal administratif de Paris."

Only if the French competition rules are the same as the EFL's so probably not really. Interesting how it got decided relatively quickly though.

 

[kentblues]

Wimbledon won’t agree to this. Why would they? They’d have to drag the rest of the relegation threatened teams into the mix.

It was the presenters question what if- they are proposing promotions and no relegations

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Only if the French competition rules are the same as the EFL's so probably not really. Interesting how it got decided relatively quickly though.

Of course, the difference in France was that the government stepped in to call a halt to the season.

 

[stewart]

Macclesfield got fined 6 points in January for non payment of wages. So it has happened.

Macclesfield Town docked six points by EFL over financial issues

Macclesfield Town are docked six points by the English Football League after pleading guilty to charges over non-payment of wages and failing to fulfil their fixture with Crewe.

www.bbc.co.uk

they also failed to fulfil their fixture against Crewe,so maybe the 6 point deduction was mainly for that .

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Only if the French competition rules are the same as the EFL's so probably not really. Interesting how it got decided relatively quickly though.

Of course, the difference in France was that the government stepped in to call a halt to the season.

Hearing this morning that Lyon (denied a European place by being allotted seventh place) are going to appeal against the decision, as their demand, along with tfc and Amiens, was thrown out last night. Not strictly 'on topic' but I wonder whether tfc's push for retaining Ligue 1 status was motivated by their prospective new American owners? With relegation may be they'll want to re negotiate the price?!!!

 

[Ricey]

La Liga are restarting on June 8th.

 

[Chris Powell's mate]

Those with top TV deals would drag corpses on to a pitch, socially distanced of course, to ensure a finish to the season.
They don't want to give back that money do they?

 

[Westcliff DGS]

Those with top TV deals would drag corpses on to a pitch, socially distanced of course, to ensure a finish to the season.
They don't want to give back that money do they?

Money will be returned now matter what as some games will apparently be free to air, so the premium (and its a fair bit each week) paid for exclusive full game hi lights and match coverage will need to be refunded for those gaames. But it wont be as much as the games not being paid. All of this will have a knock on effect down the divisions

 

[Chris Powell's mate]

Money will be returned now matter what as some games will apparently be free to air, so the premium (and its a fair bit each week) paid for exclusive full game hi lights and match coverage will need to be refunded for those gaames. But it wont be as much as the games not being paid. All of this will have a knock on effect down the divisions

The 'effect' is minuscule by the time it reaches League One.
Most of the Prem distribution to the EFL goes in parachute payments. A fair chunk to the rest of the Championship, and the crumbs from the rich man's table goes to the last two.
I'll dig out the figures if you want.

 

[Westcliff DGS]

The 'effect' is minuscule by the time it reaches League One.
Most of the Prem distribution to the EFL goes in parachute payments. A fair chunk to the rest of the Championship, and the crumbs from the rich man's table goes to the last two.
I'll dig out the figures if you want.

Sadly not, it all gets put into the yearly solidarity payments, so the effect is quite high as each club budgets for that money, so while not on the same level as the higher divisions it doesn’t impact