New Harry Potter film

[MK Shrimper]

I think I must be the only person in the world who didn't like these books.

Maybe it was all the glowing accolades they got and the fact it took me 4 years to get round to reading them, but they were very 'Lord of the Rings' in terms of the pattern they followed (which again, I'm not sure many folks would agree with); 1 - quite kiddy, has its moments, 2 - gets a lot darker and is the best of the series with some great ideas, 3 - loses its way, descends into repetition and ended up boring the arse off me...

You are very, very so very wrong. HDM are possibly THE finest books ever written in the English language (not just kids books) and JK Rowling is not worthy of a fullstop of Phillip Pullman's masterwork.

I've read the entire series twice and I can't wait until I can read them to my kids to show them the wonder.

Plopper's books just got bigger and bigger with exactly the same storyline in each one. IT'S ****ING VOLDERMORT!

 

[OldBlueLady]

You are very, very so very wrong. HDM are possibly THE finest books ever written in the English language (not just kids books) and JK Rowling is not worthy of a fullstop of Phillip Pullman's masterwork.

Is that because of the anti religion theme that runs through them? No way are they the finest books written in the English language, they're not even over popular because the concept is so alien. I would imagine if it isn't JK then Jacqueline Wilson is far and away the most popular children's writer, and Evelyn Waugh, Graham Greene, Dickens and Austen might have a few words about the adult end!

 

[MK Shrimper]

Is that because of the anti religion theme that runs through them? No way are they the finest books written in the English language, they're not even over popular because the concept is so alien. I would imagine if it isn't JK then Jacqueline Wilson is far and away the most popular children's writer, and Evelyn Waugh, Graham Greene, Dickens and Austen might have a few words about the adult end!

In the BBC poll, HDM was voted 3rd only to Lord Of The Rings and Price and Prejudice (which I'll never reading because these classics are just exceptionally boring). That's what brought the books to my attention.

And it's not "anti-religion" it's anti ORGANISED religion.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/arts/bigread/vote/

 

[OldBlueLady]

In the BBC poll, HDM was voted 2nd only to Price and Prejudice (which I'll never reading because these classics are just exceptionally boring). That's what brought the books to my attention.

And it's not "anti-religion" it's anti ORGANISED religion.

Ask at any library, they'll tell you JK and JW are more popular! FWIW, I'd rather kids read a few more of the classics like Swallows and Amazons, To Kill a Mocking Bird and Lord of the Flies, much more beneficial than HDM.

 

[seany t]

Ask at any library, they'll tell you JK and JW are more popular! FWIW, I'd rather kids read a few more of the classics like Swallows and Amazons, To Kill a Mocking Bird and Lord of the Flies, much more beneficial than HDM.

Too right. And I'd take a bit of Dahl over JKR, JRRT and PPullman any day of the week

 

[OldBlueLady]

Too right. And I'd take a bit of Dahl over JKR, JRRT and PPullman any day of the week

Agree, Roald Dahl is probably aimed slightly younger though. Love The Twits!

 

[MK Shrimper]

Ask at any library, they'll tell you JK and JW are more popular! FWIW, I'd rather kids read a few more of the classics like Swallows and Amazons, To Kill a Mocking Bird and Lord of the Flies, much more beneficial than HDM.

Well obviously not because the poll is in the link above you. What's the problem with it Kay? Lyra and Will fall in love on the cusp of puberty and well..... The final pages are more heart rending and moving than anything I've read.

 

[seany t]

Well obviously not because the poll is in the link above you. What's the problem with it Kay? Lyra and Will fall in love on the cusp of puberty and well..... The final pages are more heart rending and moving than anything I've read.

I found that a bit uncomfortable. I guess there's nothing wrong with people falling in love but, you know, they're about 13 / 17?

 

[OldBlueLady]

Well obviously not because the poll is in the link above you. What's the problem with it Kay? Lyra and Will fall in love on the cusp of puberty and well..... The final pages are more heart rending and moving than anything I've read.

No, I know and from an adult perspective I did enjoy them, but to me they're not children's books. They're far too complicated, but yes, I did sit with tears rolling down my face at the end - told you before, I'm a soft touch!

Honestly, go back and re-read those I've just said and compare the simplicity of the writing with Pullman.

 

[Ayrshire Blue]

No, no, no! This one's got a bit of a twist, and I shall be there armed with a box of tissues to mop the tears up that the ending will bring!

I think i may cry aswell :unsure: :(

 

[OldBlueLady]

I think i may cry aswell :unsure: :(

It's definitely likely!

 

[MK Shrimper]

No, I know and from an adult perspective I did enjoy them, but to me they're not children's books. They're far too complicated, but yes, I did sit with tears rolling down my face at the end - told you before, I'm a soft touch!

Honestly, go back and re-read those I've just said and compare the simplicity of the writing with Pullman.

I think you underestimate teenage children there. I can't see a teenager today finding anything in Swallows and Amazons - its of a certain bygone age. HDM is timeless.

 

[Ayrshire Blue]

It's definitely likely!

Nothing wrong with a man showing his emotions though

 

[seany t]

No, I know and from an adult perspective I did enjoy them, but to me they're not children's books. They're far too complicated, but yes, I did sit with tears rolling down my face at the end - told you before, I'm a soft touch!

Honestly, go back and re-read those I've just said and compare the simplicity of the writing with Pullman.

Agreed, to me they're not childrens books.

I found Pullman's style too matter of fact. It felt like he almost wrote the book as a stream of consciousness and events ('And then Lyra did this, as Will went this way, and Azriel swung in behind etc'), rather than give any depth to the characters and settings (obviously this wasn't the case as they're so complex, but thats how it made me 'feel'). I know that some people have heralded it as a modern shorthand style almost, but that, coupled with the (for me anyway) awkward mix of sci-fi, fantasy, real life, etc just made it a bit of an overblown mess of ideas.

Potter is more of a childrens book for sure with its recurring themes and almost inevitable conclusions to the stories, but is underlined with themes you can relate to as a grown up (much like the films of Pixar) and disguised with great skill in the lead up. None of them are ever going to be regarded as the best book ever, but I just prefer them.

 

[OldBlueLady]

I think you underestimate teenage children there. I can't see a teenager today finding anything in Swallows and Amazons - its of a certain bygone age. HDM is timeless.

:stunned:

Are you sure?

I mean, I have got two of my own, and do know countless others through them! Very few teenage boys read, and teenage girls are not really that bothered about HDM - admittedly there are some exceptions. Ask my daughter what was the last book she read and she'd tell you a JW one, my son doesn't read fiction at all.

That's why I say it's pitched wrong, I've seen kids of 10 or 11 trying to read The Northern Lights because of the film and they just don't understand it. Harry Potter is universal, anyone from 7 to 70+ can read and find something in it to enjoy.

And I think Swallows and Amazons is just as relevant now, it is an illustration of a bygone time, just as Jane Austen's works were.

 

[OldBlueLady]

Good debate though, enjoyed that! :clap:

 

[JoshC]

Nothing wrong with a man showing his emotions though

When its about a childrens fiction book there is though.

I really cant see what the big deal about Harry Potter is, it all just bores me and everybody cant stop talking about how great it is.

 

[MK Shrimper]

When its about a childrens fiction book there is though.

No there isn't. Childrens fiction can be just as emotional as any adult book - I've got a bit tearful over HDM, Noughts & Crosses, as I have over a few adult books - Atonement and Birdsong for example.

 

[OldBlueLady]

When its about a childrens fiction book there is though.

I really cant see what the big deal about Harry Potter is, it all just bores me and everybody cant stop talking about how great it is.

Are you therefore saying it's wrong to get emotional at a kids' film as well - have you ever seen Dumbo or Bambi?! :(

 

[Ayrshire Blue]

Are you therefore saying it's wrong to get emotional at a kids' film as well - have you ever seen Dumbo or Bambi?! :(

Dont get me started on Bambi :(:(:(:(:(