Long hard season

[Cricko]

What conditions ? Last season was difficult, he had to hit the ground running and build a team from scratch. This season he'd had a whole season and pre-season to prepare and, by all accounts, one of the biggest budgets and squads in the division.

The quality of play has alternated between good, especially away from home, and dross. We missed out on two achievable huge matches so we very much hope for third time lucky. For me, if we make Wembley that's about par for what we should have achieved. If we win there, he's "outperformed", if we lose against Crewe he's underperformed.

What he said^^^^^^^

 

[Jam_Man]

What conditions ? Last season was difficult, he had to hit the ground running and build a team from scratch. This season he'd had a whole season and pre-season to prepare and, by all accounts, one of the biggest budgets and squads in the division.

The quality of play has alternated between good, especially away from home, and dross. We missed out on two achievable huge matches so we very much hope for third time lucky. For me, if we make Wembley that's about par for what we should have achieved. If we win there, he's "outperformed", if we lose against Crewe he's underperformed.

On what basis ?

We finished 4th in the league with the highest points tally in decades and 9 times out of the last 10 we would have been automatically promoted.

The year we last got promoted with this years points we would have been champions.

Not making the final will be a massive disappointment but thats a knockout game, it doesnt make the league performance any less remarkable.

Whatever happens in the play offs our league performance is not an under achievement.

 

[the_forgotten_man]

What conditions ? Last season was difficult, he had to hit the ground running and build a team from scratch. This season he'd had a whole season and pre-season to prepare and, by all accounts, one of the biggest budgets and squads in the division.

The quality of play has alternated between good, especially away from home, and dross. We missed out on two achievable huge matches so we very much hope for third time lucky. For me, if we make Wembley that's about par for what we should have achieved. If we win there, he's "outperformed", if we lose against Crewe he's underperformed.

Can't agree at all. A decision on whether a manager has under/over-performed can't be made on the basis of an end of season play-off. We have a whole season to judge Sturrock's performance on, that should be enough. And on that basis, we've gained our second highest points total, and finished one point off automatic promotion.

If you're bringing budgets into it and using them as a barometer of success, then another thing to remember is that certainly two of the teams who finished above us have higher budgets - Crawley and Swindon. In which case Sturrock could only have done better by finishing above Shrewsbury.

I know we haven't played the best football at times this year, but the fact is we all said so be it if it guaranteed promotion. Well, it didn't quite, but it got us to a points total that almost always does. If that's under-performing, then I can't wait for Luggy to get up to expectations.

 

[Mick]

On what basis ?
We finished 4th in the league with the highest points tally in decades and 9 times out of the last 10 we would have been automatically promoted.

The year we last got promoted with this years points we would have been champions.

Not making the final will be a massive disappointment but thats a knockout game, it doesnt make the league performance any less remarkable.

Whatever happens in the play offs our league performance is not an under achievement.

As I said, my opinion. Yours is different obviously which of course it's entitled to be.

It is, again in my opinion, meaningless to transpose this season's points tally into another season's situation and make assumptions on that basis. Yes, not making the final will be a huge disappointment but I wouldn't describe the League performance as remarkable. Solid, yes certainly. The only thing that has been remarkable has been the very strong away record but that is, to an extent, negated by the sheer quantity of abject home performances.

 

[Mick]

I know we haven't played the best football at times this year, but the fact is we all said so be it if it guaranteed promotion. Well, it didn't quite

I haven't given up yet !

 

[Jam_Man]

As I said, my opinion. Yours is different obviously which of course it's entitled to be.

It is, again in my opinion, meaningless to transpose this season's points tally into another season's situation and make assumptions on that basis. Yes, not making the final will be a huge disappointment but I wouldn't describe the League performance as remarkable. Solid, yes certainly. The only thing that has been remarkable has been the very strong away record but that is, to an extent, negated by the sheer quantity of abject home performances.

Its not meaningless to compare our points tally, its very relevant. We have done better in the league this year than we did in previous years, and better than most teams that have been promoted in previous years.

You are judging our season on the end result only, which is affected by other clubs over performing, and not our own performance. Lets say the worst happens and we lose 1-0 over two legs to Crewe. (well the worst happening is losing 14-0 over two legs) does that mean that getting 11 points more than them over the season is not an achievement ?

Totally agree that the way we played at times was not nice and certainly havent gained many of the points in style (although the last 6 games have seen a massive improvement) but the fact remains we got 83 points, out scored the 3 teams above us.

The fact we did this whilst having those abject home performances makes it more remarkable in my opinion.

Should we be celebrating the style of football and entertainment ? Of course not, its been dire until recently.
Should we be proud of beating records and finishing with 83 points ? Certainly should in my opinion.


The last point Id make is if we finished 7th with 72 points and made the final would still be an over achievement even though the league performance fell a fair way short of what we actually achieved?

 

[Beefy]

Northampton are evidence that a big squad doesn't necessarily guarantee success. It's worth remembering that according to Tara Brady our budget this season was considerably less than our budget last season was. On the face of it it looks like we've had a huge squad and therefore huge budget all season but if this has been achieved despite a cut in the budget then those running the club deserve some credit for managing the budget so well.

 

[Jam_Man]

Northampton are evidence that a big squad doesn't necessarily guarantee success. It's worth remembering that according to Tara Brady our budget this season was considerably less than our budget last season was. On the face of it it looks like we've had a huge squad and therefore huge budget all season but if this has been achieved despite a cut in the budget then those running the club deserve some credit for managing the budget so well.

And the 'huge' squad we have had was made up of a lot of players who were never going to get anywhere near the pitch.

Going by the match program on Saturday Macclesfield had a bigger squad than us :)

 

[Mick]

You are judging our season on the end result only, which is affected by other clubs over performing, and not our own performance. Lets say the worst happens and we lose 1-0 over two legs to Crewe. does that mean that getting 11 points more than them over the season is not an achievement ?

Maybe, but a hollow achievement and in that situation, I don't think they'd swap !

Mathematically you can win the League with as little as 48 points and not go up with 120. Playing as we did, it's all about League position; records, points tallies and things you pick up along the way are a bonus.

 

[Jam_Man]

Maybe, but a hollow achievement and in that situation, I don't think they'd swap !

Mathematically you can win the League with as little as 48 points and not go up with 120. Playing as we did, it's all about League position; records, points tallies and things you pick up along the way are a bonus.

Its only a hollow achievement if your only acceptable goal was promotion or a final.

Everyone has different expectations, and for me 4th place and 83 points is a good achievement and not a sign of under performance.

Ill still be gutted if we dont get to Wembley though....

 

[devonexile]

Northampton are evidence that a big squad doesn't necessarily guarantee success. It's worth remembering that according to Tara Brady our budget this season was considerably less than our budget last season was. On the face of it it looks like we've had a huge squad and therefore huge budget all season but if this has been achieved despite a cut in the budget then those running the club deserve some credit for managing the budget so well.

I'm with you on this one Beefy. According to Brady in his Financial Times article we had (at least prior to the start of this calendar year) the Ninth highest budget in League2. Frankly, the size of the squad is irrelevant and the cost of the squad everything in determining if we have under or over achieved. Anything above 9th place is an over achievement when based on outlay, 4th place is a substantial over achievement, particularly when the total points tally is also taken into account.

 

[Mad Cyril]

Even if we don't get promoted I think we can all agree that Paolo Di Canio is a **** of the highest order.

 

[Jam_Man]

Even if we don't get promoted I think we can all agree that Paolo Di Canio is **** of the highest order.

After his players shenanigans at the hall I wont be disputing that..

 

[Reg Martin]

Heard Stan Collymore on TalkSport the other night saying how some Blackburn supporters wanted their team to go down so that they were proved right.
Would there be a few Southend fans who would be secretly (even openly?) pleased if we miss out on promotion for similar reasons?

 

[WESTY_SUFC]

Heard Stan Collymore on TalkSport the other night saying how some Blackburn supporters wanted their team to go down so that they were proved right.
Would there be a few Southend fans who would be secretly (even openly?) pleased if we miss out on promotion for similar reasons?

I'd hope not. I can't imagine anyone would deep down really want that

 

[Jam_Man]

I'd hope not. I can't imagine anyone would deep down really want that

The amount of moaning some people do at games Ive always wondered why they go to football as they seem to hate the game and the club.

Some people seem happier if they have something to complain about.

Like me complaining about people who moan for example.

 

[Napster]

Would there be a few Southend fans who would be secretly (even openly?) pleased if we miss out on promotion for similar reasons?

I can think of one who lives up in Scotland.

 

[Shrimpmarked]

Obviousily disapointed not to go up automatically but this year has gotta go down as a success regardless now lets finish this off and smash the playoffs

 

[Mick]

Heard Stan Collymore on TalkSport the other night saying how some Blackburn supporters wanted their team to go down so that they were proved right.
Would there be a few Southend fans who would be secretly (even openly?) pleased if we miss out on promotion for similar reasons?

I can't believe that anyone who actually goes to the games would want another season of League 2 football, just for the privilege of being proved right.

 

[Jam_Man]

I can't believe that anyone who actually goes to the games would want another season of League 2 football, just for the privilege of being proved right.

Dont know, Fleetwood away sounds pretty special.