Leaders Debate - Who won?

[mrsblue]

I suppose it is a bit late for me to stand as an SNP candidate for Southend East ?

If you do and if you win please make sure the south upper tea bar is open.:winking:

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

It became quickly obvious why the incumbent fails to benefit from these kinds of debates. It was a lot of the time "6 on 1" and Cameron had to deal with a barrage of arguments directed at him from even Farage, and I thought he did ok in fairness.

Sturgeon hardly had to handle direct criticism or hard questions on snp policies, so not sure who made her queen! Maybe she carried herself well, but she failed to detail satisfactorily where the money would come from for this massive public spending spree she insists on.

This was the set up that Cameron chose remember. He could have a debate with Milliband and remove the distraction of Farage and the others but he didn't want to.

 

[Swiss Tony]

I thought it was disgraceful that the leader of the Labour party refused to extol the benefits of immigration (ironic given that he himself is the child of wartime political refugees) and merely limited himself to the worst kind of "me too" ism on the subject of welfare constraints on EU workers.

Proof positive (if any were needed)of the pernicious effects of UKIP on the British political system since 2010.

Thank God for the women leaders!

Mrs Thatch anyone?:thumbsup:

 

[Swiss Tony]

I suppose it is a bit late for me to stand as an SNP candidate for Southend East ?

Does mean you will have to wear a kilt you know.:omg:

 

[Uncle Leo]

I thought it was disgraceful that the leader of the Labour party refused to extol the benefits of immigration (ironic given that he himself is the child of wartime political refugees) and merely limited himself to the worst kind of "me too" ism on the subject of welfare constraints on EU workers.

Proof positive (if any were needed)of the pernicious effects of UKIP on the British political system since 2010.

Thank God for the women leaders!

If Miliband hasn't got the front to speak up against Farage then there is only one person to blame for that. Don't make the UKIP excuse.

 

[Rob Noxious]

I didn't see it, but I agree with Uncle Leo.

 

[Lord Football]

That is all very nice,yet the combined cost of the EU and overseas aid is £5,000,000 every hour every single day.

I thought Spain demanded a monthly payment for anyone moving there?

Thats a made up stat. £5m every hour, every day!!! Thats 43bn a year. Even Farage doesn't claim that and his figures don't include rebates, benefits etc.

Just out of interest, do you know what the cost of NOT being in the EU is?[TABLE="width: 266"]
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[TD="class: xl65, width: 266, align: right"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
1. Every import from the EU which is currently tax free will be subjected to Import Duty and VAT. That means anything you buy in the shops that comes from the EU will be, in most cases, 20% more expensive.

2. Everything we export to the EU will be subject to tax in the EU. That means, for example, German customers will source their goods from within the EU. Thus crippling our export business (54% of our trade is exports to Germany btw), and putting people out of work (and onto Benefits).

3. The argument of "we can trade with the US / Commonwealth" is a non starter because of the excessive freight costs.

It might be possible to arrange a Free Trade with the EU, but that would take a lot of negotiations with people for whom we've just stuck two fingers up at.

The CBI say this https://fullfact.org/economy/cost_eu_membership_gross_net_contribution-30887

 

[mrsblue]

Thats a made up stat. £5m every hour, every day!!! Thats 43bn a year. Even Farage doesn't claim that and his figures don't include rebates, benefits etc.

Just out of interest, do you know what the cost of NOT being in the EU is?[TABLE="width: 266"]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, width: 266, align: right"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
1. Every import from the EU which is currently tax free will be subjected to Import Duty and VAT. That means anything you buy in the shops that comes from the EU will be, in most cases, 20% more expensive.

2. Everything we export to the EU will be subject to tax in the EU. That means, for example, German customers will source their goods from within the EU. Thus crippling our export business (54% of our trade is exports to Germany btw), and putting people out of work (and onto Benefits).

3. The argument of "we can trade with the US / Commonwealth" is a non starter because of the excessive freight costs.

It might be possible to arrange a Free Trade with the EU, but that would take a lot of negotiations with people for whom we've just stuck two fingers up at.

The CBI say this https://fullfact.org/economy/cost_eu_membership_gross_net_contribution-30887

The EU is a dead duck as the experiment has failed miserably ,Greece can never pay their debt whilst Spain,Portugal,France are at the brink of self destruct.

The freedom of movement was Imo an excellent idea but should have included guidelines where nobody can claim any benefits for at least 3 years so basically you cannot move to any country unless you have a job offer already which pays enough to keep you and family if required.

I should have said £2,500,000 per hour.

 

[callan]

Thats a made up stat. £5m every hour, every day!!! Thats 43bn a year. Even Farage doesn't claim that and his figures don't include rebates, benefits etc.

Just out of interest, do you know what the cost of NOT being in the EU is?[TABLE="width: 266"]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, width: 266, align: right"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
1. Every import from the EU which is currently tax free will be subjected to Import Duty and VAT. That means anything you buy in the shops that comes from the EU will be, in most cases, 20% more expensive.

2. Everything we export to the EU will be subject to tax in the EU. That means, for example, German customers will source their goods from within the EU. Thus crippling our export business (54% of our trade is exports to Germany btw), and putting people out of work (and onto Benefits).

3. The argument of "we can trade with the US / Commonwealth" is a non starter because of the excessive freight costs.

It might be possible to arrange a Free Trade with the EU, but that would take a lot of negotiations with people for whom we've just stuck two fingers up at.

The CBI say this https://fullfact.org/economy/cost_eu_membership_gross_net_contribution-30887

The cost is 33 million per day net, in answer to your other questions;

1 + 2. This is base on the assumption the UK would not outside of the EU be able to agree any tax arrangements.
Looking at the amount of German products on our roads and in our homes, Jobs and Businesses in Germany rely as much on UK consumers as we do on them.

Are you seriously suggesting that German business would turn there back on UK businesses, thus risking the UK Market?

3.This is quite simply untrue, freight rates regardless of area shipped to are dependent on supply and demand.
If there is over supply then rates will remain low.

As you say it is Possible a free trade agreement with the EU could be arranged, Switzerland and Norway mange to do it why can't we?

 

[superblue24]

Thats a made up stat. £5m every hour, every day!!! Thats 43bn a year. Even Farage doesn't claim that and his figures don't include rebates, benefits etc.

Just out of interest, do you know what the cost of NOT being in the EU is?[TABLE="width: 266"]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, width: 266, align: right"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
1. Every import from the EU which is currently tax free will be subjected to Import Duty and VAT. That means anything you buy in the shops that comes from the EU will be, in most cases, 20% more expensive.

2. Everything we export to the EU will be subject to tax in the EU. That means, for example, German customers will source their goods from within the EU. Thus crippling our export business (54% of our trade is exports to Germany btw), and putting people out of work (and onto Benefits).

3. The argument of "we can trade with the US / Commonwealth" is a non starter because of the excessive freight costs.

It might be possible to arrange a Free Trade with the EU, but that would take a lot of negotiations with people for whom we've just stuck two fingers up at.

The CBI say this https://fullfact.org/economy/cost_eu_membership_gross_net_contribution-30887

To be honest, I don't buy into any of these points. I feel that the EU is an outdated concept and we should be looking at ways to reduce global trading. Let's face it, most of the stuff we consume as westerners comes from non-EU sources. It's also hardly a surprise that we get on better with Americans, Australians, South Africans etc than what we do moldovans, or people who don't speak "the lingo".

i think we should be coming up with a global plan, not one restricted to Europe only.

 

[Crabby Shrimper]

To be honest, I don't buy into any of these points. I feel that the EU is an outdated concept and we should be looking at ways to reduce global trading. Let's face it, most of the stuff we consume as westerners comes from non-EU sources. It's also hardly a surprise that we get on better with Americans, Australians, South Africans etc than what we do moldovans, or people who don't speak "the lingo".

i think we should be coming up with a global plan, not one restricted to Europe only.

I believe the opposite. I'd say that the "United States of Europe" style EU is, if anything, about 50 years ahead of is time. It make a lot of sense, but the people (and politicians) just aren't ready for it.

On the immigration question, I believe that freedom of travel between Euro states isn't necessarily a bad thing, but the problem lies with the countries on the borders. If they have poor border control, then anybody from anywhere can get into any EU country. That can't be right.

Incidentally I know one UKIP supporter that is for us pulling out of Europe because of the influx of Muslims. Surely if we deal with the Commonwealth rather than Europe we'll be dealing more with Muslim countries, and less with Christian ones? I have no problem with either, just pointing out a flaw in the UKIP argument.

 

[GBJ]

Only watched the first hour, cos obviously had to watch Fortitude on Sky Atlantic, which is far more important. Anyway, they're all tosspots really, but the stand out one for me was the leader of the Green Party. She doesn't live in the real world at all. Brilliant entertainment listening to her though. You'd have to be a special kind of stupid to actually want that lot in charge

 

[amsemp]

Thought Clegg did himself some favours and redeemed himself a little bit in all honesty. Sturgeon did very well and I think she'll be raking in the Scottish votes. I thought Cameron did well to stand up to the criticism, especially from Clegg which was priceless.

My main gripe was Ed Miliband looking ridiculously over-rehearsed, turning to the camera every 5 seconds and launching into another 'all of you at home' speech. He seems to be great at telling everybody what they want to hear and what he's going to do, but struggles to explain how he's going to do it and froze on occasions when challenged about it.

Farage was just Farage. Came across as very 'man of the people' and 'I'm not one of them'. Dare I say it, if he were Labour leader and didn't have his very controversial views, Labour might have more support.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Thought Clegg did himself some favours and redeemed himself a little bit in all honesty. Sturgeon did very well and I think she'll be raking in the Scottish votes. I thought Cameron did well to stand up to the criticism, especially from Clegg which was priceless.

My main gripe was Ed Miliband looking ridiculously over-rehearsed, turning to the camera every 5 seconds and launching into another 'all of you at home' speech. He seems to be great at telling everybody what they want to hear and what he's going to do, but struggles to explain how he's going to do it and froze on occasions when challenged about it.

Farage was just Farage. Came across as very 'man of the people' and 'I'm not one of them'. Dare I say it, if he were Labour leader and didn't have his very controversial views, Labour might have more support.

Problem with this last bit is that controversial views is all there is to him. If he were Labour leader they would have no party members because the vast majority of Labour Party members think Farage is a complete ****.

 

[rigsby]

Problem with this last bit is that controversial views is all there is to him. If he were Labour leader they would have no party members because the vast majority of Labour Party members think Farage is a complete ****.[/QUOTE]

You of all people should be grateful to Farage....Labours only chance of victory.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

If Miliband hasn't got the front to speak up against Farage then there is only one person to blame for that. Don't make the UKIP excuse.

I think Milliband has spoken out against Farage many many times. In the format of the program that Cameron had dictated there was very little screen time for each person so Milliband rightly used his time trying to make a distinction between himself and Cameron. That is the real choice at the election and that was Milliband's only chance to go head to head with Cameron so he had to not be distracted by the others that were there. Farage playing the clown was largely an irrelevance to what is going on in the election.

 

[Napster]

Only watched the first hour, cos obviously had to watch Fortitude on Sky Atlantic, which is far more important. Anyway, they're all tosspots really, but the stand out one for me was the leader of the Green Party. She doesn't live in the real world at all. Brilliant entertainment listening to her though. You'd have to be a special kind of stupid to actually want that lot in charge

Throw a shrimp on the barbie. Bloody immigrants coming here taking our jobs.

 

[Uncle Leo]

I think Milliband has spoken out against Farage many many times. In the format of the program that Cameron had dictated there was very little screen time for each person so Milliband rightly used his time trying to make a distinction between himself and Cameron. That is the real choice at the election and that was Milliband's only chance to go head to head with Cameron so he had to not be distracted by the others that were there. Farage playing the clown was largely an irrelevance to what is going on in the election.

I wasn't the one moaning about it. Your reply - which I broadly agree with - should be directed at Barna.

Incidentally, on the format of the programme, just four questions in nearly two hours feels a bit light.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Problem with this last bit is that controversial views is all there is to him. If he were Labour leader they would have no party members because the vast majority of Labour Party members think Farage is a complete ****.[/QUOTE]

You of all people should be grateful to Farage....Labours only chance of victory.

Completely agree he is splitting the vote on the right. It makes me nauseous to think that I'd have to wish for a reasonably high UKIP vote in certain seats but I guess it's a case of by any means necessary. I really hope Farage doesn't win his seat though and have to listen to him in Parliament.

By the same logic though Tories should be loving the SNP right now (and the parties do have history of support for each other in the past).

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I wasn't the one moaning about it. Your reply - which I broadly agree with - should be directed at Barna.

Incidentally, on the format of the programme, just four questions in nearly two hours feels a bit light.

True. Sort it out Barna - look at the bigger picture.