Keep Mohsni, Clohessy, Grant, Corr, Barker and Morris. Dump the rest.

[Beefy]

Was it his signings? Freddy aside, the four main players for Tilly in the promotion years (Maher, Gower, Prior, Flahavan) were already at the Club when he took over.

I don't think it was his signings that got us up. It was the confidence that he gave the players to believe in themselves and to not worry about making mistakes.

 

[Blue_Wes]

To be fair, Prodigal didn't say that Tilly's signings were lucky, he said that Tilly got lucky with the signings.
The two promotion seasons saw Daryl playing better than he had in his previous seasons (he had even been released at one stage !!) and I am sure that Tilly knew Eastwood was good , but I doubt even he thought he would have that effect.
All credit to Tilly, it was his signings which got the success, I just feel that it was solely down to the signings, his tactics, substitutions etc played little part imho, which , to a degree, is getting lucky with the signings

I don't know. You buy players because you believe they will improve the team. I appreciate some turn out even better than we imagined, but when you look at the signings of Prior, Sodje, Gray, Goater & Bailey as well, all of these had massive contributions in our uprisings, even Clarke once he started playing regularly in his natural position. Signing Barrett and getting 10/11 goals as well as a solid die hard defender is another example. Yes he had some bad signings too, but the number of players he signed that performed over and above expectations can't be purely down to luck. Eastwood was exceptional, granted, but he still needed managing, to nurture the talent, to continue to improve the player - remember this is a player that fell out of love with the game previously. He even dropped him at one point because his attitude started to wane, then Eastwood came back with a vengeance, starting with the winning goal at Blackpool from the bench.

I refuse to believe that the three cups runs and two promotions were down to him getting lucky off the back of two signings. The tactics were naive at times, and his substitutions left a lot to be desired. But he pulled the team out of a relegation fight, and built a team that gave us some of our best years as a fan using his tactics. He bought the key players, he picked the team, and he trained them. It's seems massively disrespectful to him, and the rest of the team; Goater, Sodje, Prior et al, to attribute it to getting lucky with the performances of just Flavs & Freddy.

I think if you can attribute any of Tilly's success' to luck, it would be the lack of injuries we suffered during our glory years, allowing us to maintain a settled team and subsequently momentum. But even then you could argue that it was down to good training and player care from the back room team.

As unlikely as it seems, if Sturrock pulls us out of this lull we're in, dragged us up two divisions, took us to two cup finals and a League Cup Quarter Final via an epic giant killing, I'd hope we'd be a little more respectful than to say he just got lucky.

 

[southendkid]

Was it his signings? Freddy aside, the four main players for Tilly in the promotion years (Maher, Gower, Prior, Flahavan) were already at the Club when he took over.

I don't think it was his signings that got us up. It was the confidence that he gave the players to believe in themselves and to not worry about making mistakes.

And that confidence came from knowing Eastwood would, and Flahaven would save, that takes the pressure off the other player's backs as they don't have to worry as much about conceding and taking chances, as theres no pressure they play better. Pressure always affects performance

 

[shrimperjon]

What i have been saying for a while is what do some people expect this season. Oncxe again it will be said that we completely rebuilt the team in the summer with some good and some bad. we are not bottom and i believe we will stay up quite comfortably in the end. n other team in the country went through what we did in the summer and i still think we have done pretty ok all though inconsistent. really there should be one thread on here, 'its not great but lets get behind those players we do have and help them survive'. If we are in this position next season with PS in charge then people have every right to question the team, tactics, results etc. UTB

 

[Jedi Shrimper]

Was it his signings? Freddy aside, the four main players for Tilly in the promotion years (Maher, Gower, Prior, Flahavan) were already at the Club when he took over.

I don't think it was his signings that got us up. It was the confidence that he gave the players to believe in themselves and to not worry about making mistakes.

Err...Tilly took over in 2003 and signed Prior in 2004 from Cardiff. So that's 3 key players he already had, in a team that were on the precipice, that he managed to turn around with the aid of signing some other great players in little over a season and a half into a promotion winning side. Tilly's acheivements are often down-played.

Similarly Sturrock's acheivement of actually persuading some players to sign for us is downplayed as well.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Timing is everything - I guess.
But getting Sturrock snr as manager is hard to fault.
We certainly did need some sort of hombre with a contacts book and a bit of experience.
But how far we've fallen since, say, the 1-1 with Chelsea is that Anthony Grant is now the star player. Yup, totally agree the guy's improved. But his elevation is because the rest, apart from Barker, and I mean ALL the rest - are pretty ordinary.
Now if the magic fairy will wave her wand, and make Ron a wiser man so there is money to spend and take us back nine months, so Chris Powell (good enough for Charlton, it appears) takes over because he remains passionate about the club - then all will be well. Ahhh me...
But there again I would say that, eh?

I know defensive work is completely ignored on here, but Grant was one of our star men that game.

I don't know. You buy players because you believe they will improve the team. I appreciate some turn out even better than we imagined, but when you look at the signings of Prior, Sodje, Gray, Goater & Bailey as well, all of these had massive contributions in our uprisings, even Clarke once he started playing regularly in his natural position. Signing Barrett and getting 10/11 goals as well as a solid die hard defender is another example. Yes he had some bad signings too, but the number of players he signed that performed over and above expectations can't be purely down to luck. Eastwood was exceptional, granted, but he still needed managing, to nurture the talent, to continue to improve the player - remember this is a player that fell out of love with the game previously. He even dropped him at one point because his attitude started to wane, then Eastwood came back with a vengeance, starting with the winning goal at Blackpool from the bench.

I refuse to believe that the three cups runs and two promotions were down to him getting lucky off the back of two signings. The tactics were naive at times, and his substitutions left a lot to be desired. But he pulled the team out of a relegation fight, and built a team that gave us some of our best years as a fan using his tactics. He bought the key players, he picked the team, and he trained them. It's seems massively disrespectful to him, and the rest of the team; Goater, Sodje, Prior et al, to attribute it to getting lucky with the performances of just Flavs & Freddy.

I think if you can attribute any of Tilly's success' to luck, it would be the lack of injuries we suffered during our glory years, allowing us to maintain a settled team and subsequently momentum. But even then you could argue that it was down to good training and player care from the back room team.

As unlikely as it seems, if Sturrock pulls us out of this lull we're in, dragged us up two divisions, took us to two cup finals and a League Cup Quarter Final via an epic giant killing, I'd hope we'd be a little more respectful than to say he just got lucky.

Eh? We were on the way down with Clarke in the team and didn't have a decent defensive unit from the time he started playing his usual (rather than natural) position.

And that confidence came from knowing Eastwood would, and Flahaven would save, that takes the pressure off the other player's backs as they don't have to worry as much about conceding and taking chances, as theres no pressure they play better. Pressure always affects performance

It was Prior who sorted out the defence and gave the team confidence that we could keep clean sheets. Even if he wasn't clearly the class act on the pitch (along with Freddy), I'd have thought this was obvious from the way our rise and fall correlates with his availability and fitness.

 

[Beefy]

Err...Tilly took over in 2003 and signed Prior in 2004 from Cardiff. So that's 3 key players he already had, in a team that were on the precipice, that he managed to turn around with the aid of signing some other great players in little over a season and a half into a promotion winning side. Tilly's acheivements are often down-played.

Similarly Sturrock's acheivement of actually persuading some players to sign for us is downplayed as well.

You're right about Prior - I thought he'd been signed the year before for some reason.

I don't think anyone is downplaying Tilson's achievements. I'm certainly not. I'm a massive Tilson fan and would have him back on a lifetime contract tomorrow. It's not going to happen though.

 

[Blue_Wes]

I know defensive work is completely ignored on here, but Grant was one of our star men that game.



Eh? We were on the way down with Clarke in the team and didn't have a decent defensive unit from the time he started playing his usual (rather than natural) position.



It was Prior who sorted out the defence and gave the team confidence that we could keep clean sheets. Even if he wasn't clearly the class act on the pitch (along with Freddy), I'd have thought this was obvious from the way our rise and fall correlates with his availability and fitness.

You're right about Prior - I thought he'd been signed the year before for some reason.

I don't think anyone is downplaying Tilson's achievements. I'm certainly not. I'm a massive Tilson fan and would have him back on a lifetime contract tomorrow. It's not going to happen though.

Beefy, The debate arose as a result of Prodigal Son downplaying Tison's achievments, crediting them more to luck than judgement. The fact that this luck is attributed to two of his signings appears to be insignificant.

Yorky, you're right Clarkey had no play in our uprising, but was certainly integral to our play-off push back in league one. It was meant to support my argument that Tilly consistantly bought players that improved the squad, and to attribute the two (arguably) most successful down to luck seems to be a very harsh view on his achievements.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Beefy, The debate arose as a result of Prodigal Son downplaying Tison's achievments, crediting them more to luck than judgement. The fact that this luck is attributed to two of his signings appears to be insignificant.

Yorky, you're right Clarkey had no play in our uprising, but was certainly integral to our play-off push back in league one. It was meant to support my argument that Tilly consistantly bought players that improved the squad, and to attribute the two (arguably) most successful down to luck seems to be a very harsh view on his achievements.

Clarke was an intergral flaw in our play-off push. We were the second top-scorers in the division, but our defence was so poor that we barely scrapped into the play-offs. Clarke, who gave away a ridiculous amount of free-kicks for a central defender, was a liability and in no way an improvement over the likes of Sodje and Prior who he was signed to replace. If anything, it's signings like Clarke give rise to the suggestion that Tilly got lucky first time round and was in the right place at the right time. Even if he was, he deserves credit for signing Prior and Eastwood and criticism for signing Clarke.

 

[EastStandBlue]

Clarke was an intergral flaw in our play-off push. We were the second top-scorers in the division, but our defence was so poor that we barely scrapped into the play-offs. Clarke, who gave away a ridiculous amount of free-kicks for a central defender, was a liability and in no way an improvement over the likes of Sodje and Prior who he was signed to replace. If anything, it's signings like Clarke give rise to the suggestion that Tilly got lucky first time round and was in the right place at the right time. Even if he was, he deserves credit for signing Prior and Eastwood and criticism for signing Clarke.

It's not so much the signing of Clarke that Tilson deserves the criticism for IMO, it's the signing of Clarke to partner Adam Barrett, a defender who shared almost the exact same traits, strengths and weaknesses. We were crying out for a lump of a man to come in, exert some authority over the 18 yard box and pluck things out of the air... The only time that ever occured was with Dorian Dervite, who formed a fairly impervious partnership with Clarke the season after our Play-Off attempt.

 

[Blue_Wes]

It's not so much the signing of Clarke that Tilson deserves the criticism for IMO, it's the signing of Clarke to partner Adam Barrett, a defender who shared almost the exact same traits, strengths and weaknesses. We were crying out for a lump of a man to come in, exert some authority over the 18 yard box and pluck things out of the air... The only time that ever occured was with Dorian Dervite, who formed a fairly impervious partnership with Clarke the season after our Play-Off attempt.

I agree that the partnership of Clarke and Barrett was part of our downfall especially in the Championship. I felt this was more in part to Barret than Clarke though. Clarke really struggled when he first signed as Tilson used him as a centre midfielder, this unfortunately got the fans on Clarke's back. I think it's testament to Clarke that he managed to change the fan's opinion of him so drastically that he eventually won player of the year. Barrett was the real weak link, constantly beaten in the air, for pace and on the turn, he was truly exposed at Champiosnhip level and to a lesser extent League One. In fact he only really showed any real form when deployed at left back when his mistake's were not punished so teminally due to his position. Clarke showed that alongside an able and different style of defender in Dervite that he was an assett to the team, as ESB rightly points out.

 

[Beefy]

Clarke showed that alongside an able and different style of defender in Dervite that he was an assett to the team, as ESB rightly points out.

As Barrett did alongside Prior.

 

[Welly7]

Clarke was an intergral flaw in our play-off push. We were the second top-scorers in the division, but our defence was so poor that we barely scrapped into the play-offs. Clarke, who gave away a ridiculous amount of free-kicks for a central defender, was a liability and in no way an improvement over the likes of Sodje and Prior who he was signed to replace. If anything, it's signings like Clarke give rise to the suggestion that Tilly got lucky first time round and was in the right place at the right time. Even if he was, he deserves credit for signing Prior and Eastwood and criticism for signing Clarke.

Ok. Ok. You don't like Peter Clarke, I get it.

 

[Welly7]

It's not so much the signing of Clarke that Tilson deserves the criticism for IMO, it's the signing of Clarke to partner Adam Barrett, a defender who shared almost the exact same traits, strengths and weaknesses. We were crying out for a lump of a man to come in, exert some authority over the 18 yard box and pluck things out of the air... The only time that ever occured was with Dorian Dervite, who formed a fairly impervious partnership with Clarke the season after our Play-Off attempt.

Spot on. Clarke and Barrett were very similar, too similar in fact and in Clarke's last season at the club he excelled whereas Barrett seemed to have aged over that summer. The spring from a standing start had gone for Barrett and this was evident on numerous occasions. When Adam moved to left back his faults were not open to as much exposure as when he was playing at centre back and so he got away with it. Dervite was different class, no doubt about that, but the partnership with Clarke worked because they complimented each other, not just because of Dervite alone.

 

[Chris Powell's mate]

'I know defensive work is completely ignored on here, but Grant was one of our star men that game'. True, Yorkshire Blue.
The point I'm making is among the rest that played in that Chelsea draw: Barnard, Stanislas, Barrett, Clarke, McCormack and Revell - how often would you have put Grant ahead of the aforementioned as far as performance goes?
How often does anyone else play better than Grant now?

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

'I know defensive work is completely ignored on here, but Grant was one of our star men that game'. True, Yorkshire Blue.
The point I'm making is among the rest that played in that Chelsea draw: Barnard, Stanislas, Barrett, Clarke, McCormack and Revell - how often would you have put Grant ahead of the aforementioned as far as performance goes?
How often does anyone else play better than Grant now?

I'd put Grant ahead of all of them you listed except Barnard (and Stanislas, on the rare occasions he could be bothered).

If you'd mentioned Moussa and Mildenhall it might have been different. I also think the Grant of a year ago was better than the Grant of now.

 

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

The above mentioned are in my view the only quality players we have. The rest are of Conference standard and need to be moved on. Paul Sturrock said that he was building not only a team that would be challenging this season, but with an eye for great things in Division 1. That now looks an absolute joke. With poor strikers apart from Corr, no creativity in midfield, wingers and defenders who can't score.

You may easily persuade me to keep Hall and Ferdinand on, as they both have something about them, along with potential.
As for the rest, they are absolute pants.

How do you see it?

I am now persuaded to add these Two to the keep list. Hall has done enough in the last Two games to see that at last he is starting to fulfil his potential, especially after his M.O.T.M display against Rotherham.