Keep Mohsni, Clohessy, Grant, Corr, Barker and Morris. Dump the rest.

[ibwiajwa]

The above mentioned are in my view the only quality players we have. The rest are of Conference standard and need to be moved on. Paul Sturrock said that he was building not only a team that would be challenging this season, but with an eye for great things in Division 1. That now looks an absolute joke. With poor strikers apart from Corr, no creativity in midfield, wingers and defenders who can't score.

You may easily persuade me to keep Hall and Ferdinand on, as they both have something about them, along with potential.
As for the rest, they are absolute pants.

How do you see it?

Nowhere near as negatively as you. I like the players in your title line. Sturrock, Hall are decent too and Ferdinand and Crawford are real prospects. In fact, there is a reasonable spine to the team. It's just that we can't afford injuries or suspensions as there is no depth to the squad. That is hardly surprising given our recent history. We do need Mohsni back quickly, but lets not forget that people were getting all steamed up about his defensive errors at the start of the season. We are still a work in progress as you would expect.

 

[Ailsa Road Shrimper]

Agreed, on such short notice Sturrock isn't going to be able to sign players that don't have a relationship with him as a manager already

Sturrock has been here for more than 6 months now, he should've had all the notice he requires to bring in players. There are 16 clubs above us in the table (eg. Accrington, Morecambe, Stevenage, Cheltenham etc) who don't have money to spend either yet appear to be better than us.

Even now he still appears to be conjuring up players who played for his old clubs many years ago who are obviously past their best. Sturrock has brought in 23 players this season on contracts or on loan yet very few appear to have any potential or ability.

 

[southendkid]

Sturrock has been here for more than 6 months now, he should've had all the notice he requires to bring in players. There are 16 clubs above us in the table (eg. Accrington, Morecambe, Stevenage, Cheltenham etc) who don't have money to spend either yet appear to be better than us.

Even now he still appears to be conjuring up players who played for his old clubs many years ago who are obviously past their best. Sturrock has brought in 23 players this season on contracts or on loan yet very few appear to have any potential or ability.

If Sturrock fails to find anyone in the transfer window then I'll agree with you

 

[Blue_Wes]

It suggests more that he has a shortlist of players he can trust, and players who trusted Sturrock enough to join us on pre-contract deals in the summer.

You seemed to have missed the point. He has the same shortlist of players that he uses again and again at all his clubs. My concern is that he seldom seems to be able to find players outside of those he has already worked with. Yes it's good to be able to bring in players that are tried and tested, but the fact that this seems to represent the bulk of his transfer policy is a concern. His pool/shortlist/network of players seems to be primarily made up of those he has worked with before. He should be able to compliment this with a shortlist of players he'd like to work with, players that he has scouted, but he doesn't seem to have the capacity to scout players, and therefore just signs players that he has worked with before. It seems a little lazy.

As said in my previous post, the only previso is that with Southend's precarious reputation, it may be that only players that he know's personally will trust him when selling the club, but seeing as this is a historic transfer policy used at his previous clubs as well, it's more likely a convenient excuse.

 

[Cricko]

You seemed to have missed the point. He has the same shortlist of players that he uses again and again at all his clubs. My concern is that he seldom seems to be able to find players outside of those he has already worked with. Yes it's good to be able to bring in players that are tried and tested, but the fact that this seems to represent the bulk of his transfer policy is a concern. His pool/shortlist/network of players seems to be primarily made up of those he has worked with before. He should be able to compliment this with a shortlist of players he'd like to work with, players that he has scouted, but he doesn't seem to have the capacity to scout players, and therefore just signs players that he has worked with before. It seems a little lazy.

As said in my previous post, the only previso is that with Southend's precarious reputation, it may be that only players that he know's personally will trust him when selling the club, but seeing as this is a historic transfer policy used at his previous clubs as well, it's more likely a convenient excuse.

I would agree and I think the fact is is not a well man has no assistant and spends a lot of time at his home in the South West cannot help matters...I am not sure why he has not appointed anybody as we were already short after RM booted the other training guys...or is this the same ploy as last season by RM?

 

[EastStandBlue]

You seemed to have missed the point. He has the same shortlist of players that he uses again and again at all his clubs. My concern is that he seldom seems to be able to find players outside of those he has already worked with. Yes it's good to be able to bring in players that are tried and tested, but the fact that this seems to represent the bulk of his transfer policy is a concern. His pool/shortlist/network of players seems to be primarily made up of those he has worked with before. He should be able to compliment this with a shortlist of players he'd like to work with, players that he has scouted, but he doesn't seem to have the capacity to scout players, and therefore just signs players that he has worked with before. It seems a little lazy.

As said in my previous post, the only previso is that with Southend's precarious reputation, it may be that only players that he know's personally will trust him when selling the club, but seeing as this is a historic transfer policy used at his previous clubs as well, it's more likely a convenient excuse.

Bilel Moshni and Adam Bouzid would seem to refute that allegation, as does the conveyor belt of loan strikers we've had over the past four months. There has also been a wealth of rumours about Ferguson and Redknapp offering Sturrock a number of loanees that, at the time, we couldn't afford, not to mention the club making approaches for players like Elliot Benyon at Torquay. We used Widdrington's knowledge of the conference to bring in Ryan Hall and Sean Clohessy, so it's not as if he's against using anybody players he knows.

Your statement that our precarious situation can be used as a convenient excuse rings both ways... Those that are Anti-Sturrock will see his use of "his players" as a stick to beat him with whilst alledging a lack of contacts/knowledge/scouting nous, but it just doesn't ring true.

 

[Beefy]

How many players did we sign in the Summer who Sturrock had worked with previously?

Gilbert, Coughlan, Easton, Corr, Zaaboub, Sturrock and Barker? I think that's it. If so that's less than half of the players he brought in. It's no surprise considering the timeframe he had and the state that we were in that he had to rely on previous contacts.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

You seemed to have missed the point. He has the same shortlist of players that he uses again and again at all his clubs. My concern is that he seldom seems to be able to find players outside of those he has already worked with. Yes it's good to be able to bring in players that are tried and tested, but the fact that this seems to represent the bulk of his transfer policy is a concern. His pool/shortlist/network of players seems to be primarily made up of those he has worked with before. He should be able to compliment this with a shortlist of players he'd like to work with, players that he has scouted, but he doesn't seem to have the capacity to scout players, and therefore just signs players that he has worked with before. It seems a little lazy.

As said in my previous post, the only previso is that with Southend's precarious reputation, it may be that only players that he know's personally will trust him when selling the club, but seeing as this is a historic transfer policy used at his previous clubs as well, it's more likely a convenient excuse.

Every manager does it.

Steve Tilson's first signings were Andy Edwards, Spencer Prior (players he'd played with), Wayne Gray (worked with Paul Brush at Orient) and then loanees he'd worked with before (Hunt, Nicolau, Dudfield, Pettefer). He signed McCormack three times!

Wignall signed the awful Warren and Emberson; Little signed Tinkler, Tolson, Carruthers, Pepper, Connelly etc; Fry signed Bodley, Howell, Hunt, Payne and Poole etc

It's just a stick to beat Sturrock with. His replacement would be no different.

 

[Beefy]

Too soon to judge Comminges, Ferdinand and Phillips (unless this is typical of his injury record).

Phillips is 30 next year and has started 116 games in his career. This season is very typical for him, unfortunately.

 

[EastStandBlue]

Phillips is 30 next year and has started 116 games in his career. This season is very typical for him, unfortunately.

I think those stats might be somewhat skewed by the 67 appearances he made in seven years for Millwall, playing largely as back-up. He was fairly consistent for Brentford at this level... Still, I'd agree that if the second half of this season plays out like the first, then he just isn't worth pursuing.

 

[Beefy]

I think he had a lot of injuries at Millwall too, which is one of the reasons why he could never break through consistently into the first team.

 

[TCR]

In addition to Mohsni, Clohessy, Grant, Corr, Barker and Morris I would also keep Easton, Sturrock, Hall and Crawford as well as some of the youth team players e.g. Ferdinand, Woodyard, James-Lewis.
Opinion on Philipps (soon to be 29) in abeyance as yet to see him play, though he, like other signings, does appear injury prone

 

[Blue_Wes]

Firstly, it's not a stick to beat Sturrock with. It's a concern based observation, not every criticism is a sinister anti-Sturrock jibe, some criticism's are born out of a genuine concern for the club. I want the club to succeed, and for that to happen Sturrock needs to succeed, I'm not going to get on his back for the sake of it, or because he's not Tilson, that would be counter productive to me wanting the club to succeed. True, I'm not overly enamoured with his tactics, selection or signings, but ultimately I want him to succeed, as that means my club is succeeding.

Beefy, to that list you can add Evans (Swindon), and now Commingues (also Swindon). I make that 9 signings of previous players. That just seems a lot to me. Of the others that came in, ESB has already attributed Clohessy and Hall to Tommy W's non-league links, and to that you can add Prosser who was on loan at Salisbury during TW's tenure. That leaves Moshni, Phillips, Morris, Bouzid and Soares. That's 5 out of 17 signings that he or Tommy hadn't worked with previously. You can choose whether you feel that statistic should be bolstered with the loan signings or not - I for one feel these aren't really players scouted but those touted to clubs and easily locatable on the PFA website.

I just expected that a man who had been in the industry as long as Sturrock would have a wealth of targets, and a massive pool of players with whom he had interests/scouted/targeted, and am disappointed that he's again gone down the route of signing the majority of players he's worked with previously. The fact that now the transfer window has opened, and he can deal without the pressures he had pre-season of pulling a team together, and the first player he signed is yet again one he signed for Swindon just seems lazy. Surely with all his years in the game he would have a wider knowledge of players other than those he's worked with before?

ESB I don't really buy into the Ferguson/Redknapp rumours, although I'd love to be corrected. Rumours are just that, and don't really add any weight to your points (unless they come to fruition).

With regards to all managers doing it, yes that's true, but not to the same extent as Sturrock. I also feel a little bit of leniancy should be given to Tilson in Yorkshire Blue's example, Tilson was brand new to management, he hadn't got the 12/13 years in the game that Sturrock has had to build up a pool of players, so naturally in his debut managerial role he is going to sign players he is familiar with. All the players you mention are mostly those signed in his early years, as he grew into the role, his transfer dealings branched out much further than those he'd played with before (with varying degrees of success admittedly). The fact Wignall and Little who had considerably more experience than Tilson, yet still had the same habits as Sturrock is worrying, especially given the similarity in form, performance's and league position.

 

[Prodigal Son]

Firstly, it's not a stick to beat Sturrock with. It's a concern based observation, not every criticism is a sinister anti-Sturrock jibe, some criticism's are born out of a genuine concern for the club. I want the club to succeed, and for that to happen Sturrock needs to succeed, I'm not going to get on his back for the sake of it, or because he's not Tilson, that would be counter productive to me wanting the club to succeed. True, I'm not overly enamoured with his tactics, selection or signings, but ultimately I want him to succeed, as that means my club is succeeding.

Beefy, to that list you can add Evans (Swindon), and now Commingues (also Swindon). I make that 9 signings of previous players. That just seems a lot to me. Of the others that came in, ESB has already attributed Clohessy and Hall to Tommy W's non-league links, and to that you can add Prosser who was on loan at Salisbury during TW's tenure. That leaves Moshni, Phillips, Morris, Bouzid and Soares. That's 5 out of 17 signings that he or Tommy hadn't worked with previously. You can choose whether you feel that statistic should be bolstered with the loan signings or not - I for one feel these aren't really players scouted but those touted to clubs and easily locatable on the PFA website.

I just expected that a man who had been in the industry as long as Sturrock would have a wealth of targets, and a massive pool of players with whom he had interests/scouted/targeted, and am disappointed that he's again gone down the route of signing the majority of players he's worked with previously. The fact that now the transfer window has opened, and he can deal without the pressures he had pre-season of pulling a team together, and the first player he signed is yet again one he signed for Swindon just seems lazy. Surely with all his years in the game he would have a wider knowledge of players other than those he's worked with before?

ESB I don't really buy into the Ferguson/Redknapp rumours, although I'd love to be corrected. Rumours are just that, and don't really add any weight to your points (unless they come to fruition).

With regards to all managers doing it, yes that's true, but not to the same extent as Sturrock. I also feel a little bit of leniancy should be given to Tilson in Yorkshire Blue's example, Tilson was brand new to management, he hadn't got the 12/13 years in the game that Sturrock has had to build up a pool of players, so naturally in his debut managerial role he is going to sign players he is familiar with. All the players you mention are mostly those signed in his early years, as he grew into the role, his transfer dealings branched out much further than those he'd played with before (with varying degrees of success admittedly). The fact Wignall and Little who had considerably more experience than Tilson, yet still had the same habits as Sturrock is worrying, especially given the similarity in form, performance's and league position.

Sturrock had to put the squad together before the embargo was lifted and with little budget to do so. This meant he had to attract players on 'trust', something in short abundance at the time at SUFC. so there was a heavy reliance om past players who trusted him that the paperwork/contracts would drop into place. If you look at the other signings Mohsni was desperate for a chance, Phillips was already being looked at by the club, was'nt Bouzid a translator and Morris must have been clubless and local.

I am in regular contact with a player of another club who told me Sturrock is much repected in the business and has a fantastic contacts book, he's just constrained.

I look at the results this season, there have only been two losses by a two goal margin to Pot Vale and Crewe, Corr despte being a long way short of fitness is on course for 20 goals a season, Mohsni is a great find, Grant revitalised, first choice back four would be very good (1st choice CB pairing have been injured alot).
Sturrock's team do not turn over easily, how many drubbings did Tilson's teams take even when we were having a good season.

I was a supporter of Tilson, but he got lucky with Freddy on fire fo two seasons and a midget keeper who saved everything for the same two seasons.

Wel done Sturrock, I'm impressed.

 

[Blue_Wes]

Sturrock had to put the squad together before the embargo was lifted and with little budget to do so. This meant he had to attract players on 'trust', something in short abundance at the time at SUFC. so there was a heavy reliance om past players who trusted him that the paperwork/contracts would drop into place. If you look at the other signings Mohsni was desperate for a chance, Phillips was already being looked at by the club, was'nt Bouzid a translator and Morris must have been clubless and local.

I am in regular contact with a player of another club who told me Sturrock is much repected in the business and has a fantastic contacts book, he's just constrained.

I look at the results this season, there have only been two losses by a two goal margin to Pot Vale and Crewe, Corr despte being a long way short of fitness is on course for 20 goals a season, Mohsni is a great find, Grant revitalised, first choice back four would be very good (1st choice CB pairing have been injured alot).
Sturrock's team do not turn over easily, how many drubbings did Tilson's teams take even when we were having a good season.

I was a supporter of Tilson, but he got lucky with Freddy on fire fo two seasons and a midget keeper who saved everything for the same two seasons.

Wel done Sturrock, I'm impressed.

Constrained how? If the wages are there to use for players from his past clubs, then they are there to use for his 'fantastic contacts book'. If he has such a fantastic book of contacts, why does he not use them as opposed to repeat buying? I expect it to some extent, as YB rightly pointed out, most managers do it, but not the majority of players, and not again in the transfer window now he is free of the constraints he had in putting a squad together pre-season.

It also seems a little belittling to Tilson's achievements to put it all down to luck. Why is it that Sturrock gets a pat on the back for the signings that have kept us ticking over and away from the dreaded relegation zone, yet Tilson's signings (two of the most successful in the clubs history) are chalked off as lucky? What is it that makes a signing lucky, surely both managers have signed the players because they feel they can improve the team, why is it Tilson's good signings are considered lucky? Other than to try and back your point.

Plus 10 defeats in 22 suggests we're a little easier to turn over than you'd like to believe. Whether it's by one goal or 10 goals, if we get beat, it stills chalks up another one in the losses column, and nothing in the points column. For what it's worth I'm satisfied with where we are in the league given what Martin has done to the club in the last 2 years, but don't fool yourself into believing we're a tough team to beat, too many teams walk off with maximum points for that to be true, especially at Roots Hall.

 

[Beefy]

Beefy, to that list you can add Evans (Swindon), and now Commingues (also Swindon).

Commingues, absolutely (although I was only talking about the summer signings). Evans though had left Swindon by the time Sturrock arrived in Sept 2006.

http://www.soccerbase.com/players_details.sd?playerid=19341

 

[Blue_Wes]

Commingues, absolutely (although I was only talking about the summer signings). Evans though had left Swindon by the time Sturrock arrived in Sept 2006.

http://www.soccerbase.com/players_details.sd?playerid=19341

I stand corrected.

 

[Prodigal Son]

Constrained how? If the wages are there to use for players from his past clubs, then they are there to use for his 'fantastic contacts book'. If he has such a fantastic book of contacts, why does he not use them as opposed to repeat buying? I expect it to some extent, as YB rightly pointed out, most managers do it, but not the majority of players, and not again in the transfer window now he is free of the constraints he had in putting a squad together pre-season.

It also seems a little belittling to Tilson's achievements to put it all down to luck. Why is it that Sturrock gets a pat on the back for the signings that have kept us ticking over and away from the dreaded relegation zone, yet Tilson's signings (two of the most successful in the clubs history) are chalked off as lucky? What is it that makes a signing lucky, surely both managers have signed the players because they feel they can improve the team, why is it Tilson's good signings are considered lucky? Other than to try and back your point.

Plus 10 defeats in 22 suggests we're a little easier to turn over than you'd like to believe. Whether it's by one goal or 10 goals, if we get beat, it stills chalks up another one in the losses column, and nothing in the points column. For what it's worth I'm satisfied with where we are in the league given what Martin has done to the club in the last 2 years, but don't fool yourself into believing we're a tough team to beat, too many teams walk off with maximum points for that to be true, especially at Roots Hall.

Constrained in that he can get players in but has no budget to do so. We need to move some on who were signed for peanuts to make up the numbers. We are not getting thrashed, Tilson's teams consistently did so regardless of league position. I was a regular poster throughout the glory days and have always put the success of the time down to Freddy, and to a lesser degree Darryl. I've never budged on that.

I don't think we are as bad as we think, there's still too much Tilson sentiment on SZ,it's almost as if some want to see us fail.

 

[Chris Powell's mate]

Timing is everything - I guess.
But getting Sturrock snr as manager is hard to fault.
We certainly did need some sort of hombre with a contacts book and a bit of experience.
But how far we've fallen since, say, the 1-1 with Chelsea is that Anthony Grant is now the star player. Yup, totally agree the guy's improved. But his elevation is because the rest, apart from Barker, and I mean ALL the rest - are pretty ordinary.
Now if the magic fairy will wave her wand, and make Ron a wiser man so there is money to spend and take us back nine months, so Chris Powell (good enough for Charlton, it appears) takes over because he remains passionate about the club - then all will be well. Ahhh me...
But there again I would say that, eh?

 

[Firestorm]

To be fair, Prodigal didn't say that Tilly's signings were lucky, he said that Tilly got lucky with the signings.
The two promotion seasons saw Daryl playing better than he had in his previous seasons (he had even been released at one stage !!) and I am sure that Tilly knew Eastwood was good , but I doubt even he thought he would have that effect.
All credit to Tilly, it was his signings which got the success, I just feel that it was solely down to the signings, his tactics, substitutions etc played little part imho, which , to a degree, is getting lucky with the signings