Jeremy Corbyn's Labour

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Just read the above.
1. Lots won't vote for JC or MaccieD; both have too many noxious skeletons in the cupboard to be widely trusted.
2. JC talks a lot of **** BUT he also talks some good sense AND he highlights that the Tories are not socially inclusive or have any desire/will to improve the lot of the lower strata of society.
3. JC and MaccyD as support acts for a serious, sensible Labour leader who (he/she) doesn't have the baggage history WOULD be vote winners.

Just my opinion ( and vote).

I would agree with that on the whole. With point 1 Corbyn / McD have have shared space with and negotiated with some unsavoury characters, but Cameron has been selling arms to the Saudis, Farage formed alliances with extreme right wingers in order to get extra EU cash and Farron sees us as all sinners - so he is associating with the most unsavoury characters!
Part 2 sounds fair. Part 3 may be the way it turns out as the press will never give him a fair shot and many of the public can't see past that. But with a landslide vote within the membership he would have to chose to step aside -I can't see him being forced.

 

[londonblue]

His stance on anti-Semitism is that he is anti all types of racism (and in the press even his biggest detractors state that he is not anti-Semitic). In his campaigning for the people of Palestine he has shared platforms with people who would be classed as anti-Semitic - but he isn't. The amount of anti-Semitic people within the Labour Party would be a tiny minority and no bigger a % than in the Conservatives or UKIP - both of which have a history of having racist supporters that they too try to distance themselves from. So this doesn't amount to massive support within the Labour Party on that issue, it amounts to tiny support and those that try to exaggerate that usually have an agenda.


If you see the current Conservatives as the least bad in your view then I am amazed that you have ever been a Labour voter. In the first year of this Parliament the Tories have forced the BMA into the first doctors strike ever, they have reduced disability allowance by £30 a week, they have attempted to force all schools to become academies (many would be run by private companies), attempted to do away with animal welfare laws, constantly talk about withdrawing from human rights legislation, ran a Mayoral campaign so divisive that many of their own MPs and party grandees have condemned it, and offered up a referendum where the options are World War III (says the PM) or the realisation of Hitler's plans (says Boris Johnson).


If this is genuinely the least bad option in your mind then you are not the target voter for the Labour Party now or in the future, which is fine as no one party can't appeal to all sections of society and Labour are better off targeting people who are not attracted to the current government.

We've had the anti semitism debate, and frankly I can't be arsed to go over it again. Suffice it to say he's soft on it, and is friends with people who hold very anti semitic views. It's no surprise that that only 8% of Jews in this country will now vote Labour. This is down from 18% at the last GE. There are also plenty of non Jews that won't vote Labour because of this. Are you telling they're all wrong?

And if you want to see anti semitism in action you should see his kids. Of course they're not really anti semitic because they say they're not.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

We've had the anti semitism debate, and frankly I can't be arsed to go over it again. Suffice it to say he's soft on it, and is friends with people who hold very anti semitic views. It's no surprise that that only 8% of Jews in this country will now vote Labour. This is down from 18% at the last GE. There are also plenty of non Jews that won't vote Labour because of this. Are you telling they're all wrong?

And if you want to see anti semitism in action you should see his kids. Of course they're not really anti semitic because they say they're not.

You don't want to have that debate again yet in a long post that is the only point you pick up on and start to debate it again!


Quotes in Parliament:


Corbyn: “anti-Semitism has no place in our society and we all have a duty to oppose it”


Corbyn: “I absolutely do not approve of those organisations".


Corbyn: "Obviously, anyone who commits racist acts or is anti-Semitic is not a friend of mine. I am very clear about that."


If you feel he should have been quicker on the expulsions within the party then that is possibly correct. If because of that your are willing to vote for a party that is at war with those that work in the public sector then that is your prerogative. I am surprised though that any left leaning voter would turn towards this government at a time when even the Lords are opposing their very regressive policies.

 

[londonblue]

You don't want to have that debate again yet in a long post that is the only point you pick up on and start to debate it again!


Quotes in Parliament:


Corbyn: “anti-Semitism has no place in our society and we all have a duty to oppose it”


Corbyn: “I absolutely do not approve of those organisations".


Corbyn: "Obviously, anyone who commits racist acts or is anti-Semitic is not a friend of mine. I am very clear about that."


If you feel he should have been quicker on the expulsions within the party then that is possibly correct. If because of that your are willing to vote for a party that is at war with those that work in the public sector then that is your prerogative. I am surprised though that any left leaning voter would turn towards this government at a time when even the Lords are opposing their very regressive policies.

I'm willing to do what my conscious tells me to do. I don't need you to lecture to me. I didn't say I was voting tory. I said they are the next best alternative but I won't vote for them as long as Camerscum is around. As far as anti semitism and Israel in general are concerned the tories are the next best alternative. And before you complain that I am putting one policy over and above everything else that I value you need to realise the strength of feeling on this within the Zionist community, both Jewish and not.

Corbyn has not proven to me that he is not soft on anti-semitism. He has set up an inquiry, whose remit seems to be too restricted to come to any proper conclusion. (It is also vice chaired by a guy who has already dismissed anti-semitism within Labour as a non-issue, and doesn't accept the definition of anti-semitism.) If I'm proved wrong, and it actually does something positive then I'll re-assess. I hope I am proved wrong.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I'm willing to do what my conscious tells me to do. I don't need you to lecture to me. I didn't say I was voting tory. I said they are the next best alternative but I won't vote for them as long as Camerscum is around. As far as anti semitism and Israel in general are concerned the tories are the next best alternative. And before you complain that I am putting one policy over and above everything else that I value you need to realise the strength of feeling on this within the Zionist community, both Jewish and not.

Corbyn has not proven to me that he is not soft on anti-semitism. He has set up an inquiry, whose remit seems to be too restricted to come to any proper conclusion. (It is also vice chaired by a guy who has already dismissed anti-semitism within Labour as a non-issue, and doesn't accept the definition of anti-semitism.) If I'm proved wrong, and it actually does something positive then I'll re-assess. I hope I am proved wrong.

It's not lecturing it's debating.


When Cameron is gone you are left with Osborne, May, Johnson, Gove, IDS, Morgan, Reese-Mog - just naming them sends shivers......I struggle to see see how that is the least bad option for anyone left of Farage, Nuttall and Hamilton.


The chair of the enquiry is Shami Chakrabati who as head of Liberty is as close as you can get to a guardian of political fair play. She would not tarnish her own reputation by being part of a whitewash.

 

[Bielzibubz]

No surprises there then....

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-would-be-campaigning-for-brexit-if-he-was-not-labour-leader-says-long-time-ally-tariq-a7032736.html

 

[londonblue]

It's not lecturing it's debating.


When Cameron is gone you are left with Osborne, May, Johnson, Gove, IDS, Morgan, Reese-Mog - just naming them sends shivers......I struggle to see see how that is the least bad option for anyone left of Farage, Nuttall and Hamilton.


The chair of the enquiry is Shami Chakrabati who as head of Liberty is as close as you can get to a guardian of political fair play. She would not tarnish her own reputation by being part of a whitewash.

Let's hope not...but we'll see.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

No surprises there then....

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-would-be-campaigning-for-brexit-if-he-was-not-labour-leader-says-long-time-ally-tariq-a7032736.html

Tariq Ali can do one.

 

[Bielzibubz]

Tariq Ali can do one.

:hilarious::hilarious: Quality answer. Thought you'd like that

 

[londonblue]

Tariq Ali can do one.

I guess Corbyn's brother can too.

 

[South Bank Hank]

I guess Corbyn's brother can too.

Wait, what!? Corbyn has a brother?

The Labour Party haven't elected the wrong bloody one again have they?

 

[rigsby]

Tariq Ali can do one.

Yes, we don't want anyone telling the truth. Besides just because Jeremy has campaigned against the EU for 40 years, why can't he completely change his stance now that he's leader.:smile:

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Yes, we don't want anyone telling the truth. Besides just because Jeremy has campaigned against the EU for 40 years, why can't he completely change his stance now that he's leader.:smile:

Which is fair. But Cameron claimed he was verging on being an outer and now he says that out = WWIII, and Boris Johnson had a full on pro EU speach 2 weeks before declaring as out. So they are all having a.....rethink!

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Tariq Ali was rightly refused membership of the Labour party (ironically in JC's Islington North constituency).

Nobody took any notice of him in his Trot days when he was IMG's leader.

Only people with their own anti-Labour agenda are interested in what he has to say now.

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

Tariq Ali was rightly refused membership of the Labour party (ironically in JC's Islington North constituency).

Nobody took any notice of him in his Trot days when he was IMG's leader.

Only people with their own anti-Labour agenda are interested in what he has to say now.

Lets hope your racist mate Ken Livingstone doesn't come out and say something similar eh?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Lets hope your racist mate Ken Livingstone doesn't come out and say something similar eh?

Ken Livingstone is most certainly not a racist and I'd be suprised if he's not fully exonerated in the fullness of time.

 

[londonblue]

Ken Livingstone is most certainly not a racist and I'd be suprised if he's not fully exonerated in the fullness of time.

Is anti semitism not racism then?

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

We've had the anti semitism debate, and frankly I can't be arsed to go over it again. Suffice it to say he's soft on it, and is friends with people who hold very anti semitic views. It's no surprise that that only 8% of Jews in this country will now vote Labour. This is down from 18% at the last GE. There are also plenty of non Jews that won't vote Labour because of this. Are you telling they're all wrong?

And if you want to see anti semitism in action you should see his kids. Of course they're not really anti semitic because they say they're not.

But you now want to have it about Livingstone?

 

[londonblue]

But you now want to have it about Livingstone?

When someone comes out with an outrageous statement that the idiot KL isn't racist (not long after he's been suspended from the Labour party for anti-semitism) think I'm justified in asking if the person that made that statement believes anti-semitism to be a form of racism. I can't be arsed to go over the whole anti-semitism debate again so I'm not.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

When someone comes out with an outrageous statement that the idiot KL isn't racist (not long after he's been suspended from the Labour party for anti-semitism) think I'm justified in asking if the person that made that statement believes anti-semitism to be a form of racism. I can't be arsed to go over the whole anti-semitism debate again so I'm not.

Livingstone did a lot for anti-racism - tellingly one of the first things that Boris Johnson did as Mayor was to take Ken's annual anti-racism festival and scale it down, rename it and change it's theme.


Ken made a reference to a pact between Hitler and Zionists. What he was referring to is a historical fact. The reason he was suspended is because he has a big gob and doesn't take account of the media bias, he is effectively suspended for his lack of savvy rather than any actual racism.


Boris Johnson on the other hand (the one who symbolically watered down Ken's anti-racist festival) has stated that the EU are trying to carry out Hitler's ultimate goals - and can happily carry on with his bid for leadership of the Conservative party.


Ken is a scapegoat. I back his suspension because at a time when the media want to string Labour up, you can't trust him not to say something that seems outrageous and sticking his head in the noose. But what he was referring to is a historical fact.




The Haavara Agreement (Hebrew: הסכם העברה Translit.: heskem haavara Translated: "transfer agreement") was an agreement between Nazi Germany and Zionist German Jews signed on 25 August 1933. The agreement was finalized after three months of talks by the Zionist Federation of Germany, the Anglo-Palestine Bank (under the directive of the Jewish Agency) and the economic authorities of Nazi Germany. It was a major factor in making possible the immigration of approximately 60,000 German Jews to Palestine in the years 1933–1939.[1]