Jeremy Corbyn's Labour

[Tangled up in Blue]

I'm not. I won't vote for someone that is taking the party back to the dark ages because they simply won't win a general election under him. I would rather have a left of centre left party that has chance of success and will be less bad than the tories than one that is true to its core, but only appeals to its core, and will therefore give the tories free reign.

If it takes people to stop voting for the labour party to make the wake up and smell the coffee then so bit it.

It's about time that all you Blairites woke up to the fact that TB-and his ilk-have gone for good.Thank God.

He did, and he did that with Ed Millibland as leader, not himself. I think you've just proved my point further. To paraphrase you from yesterday, I don't think you should post quite so early in the morning it seems to mess with your head.

Most psephologists would accept that after fighting one successful campaign,MP's build up a strong personal vote,which is difficult to combat in subsequent campaigns.It's often higher than their party's vote share nationally and often outweighs any leadership effect.

 

[MK Shrimper]

Most psephologists would accept that after fighting one successful campaign,MP's build up a strong personal vote,which is difficult to combat in subsequent campaigns.It's often higher than their party's vote share nationally and often outweighs any leadership effect.

Ooo get you.

 

[londonblue]

It's about time that all you Blairites woke up to the fact that TB-and his ilk-have gone for good.Thank God.

I'm not a Blairite, I'm a pragmatist. The only way Labour will win a general election is by being left of centre, not by being the SWP in disguise.

Most psephologists would accept that after fighting one successful campaign,MP's build up a strong personal vote,which is difficult to combat in subsequent campaigns.It's often higher than their party's vote share nationally and often outweighs any leadership effect.

I'm really not sure what point you're making. He won't lose his seat, I said that. What I said however, was that he hasn't been tested with himself as leader, and whatever happens in Islington North is not likely to be a barometer for the rest of the country because he's too entrenched there.

 

[MK Shrimper]

I'm not a Blairite, I'm a pragmatist. The only way Labour will win a general election is by being left of centre, not by being the SWP in disguise.

The thing is they will not be left of centre, they'll be a bit right wing - and nothing will change. The poor and needy of this country will still continue to suffer under a right-of-centre, cowtowing to big business Labour party.

 

[londonblue]

The thing is they will not be left of centre, they'll be a bit right wing - and nothing will change. The poor and needy of this country will still continue to suffer under a right-of-centre, cowtowing to big business Labour party.

They might be more right wing than you, but that is still left of centre. I would rather that, and give the less well off some sort of chance than the tories who will give them no chance.

 

[MK Shrimper]

They might be more right wing than you, but that is still left of centre. I would rather that, and give the less well off some sort of chance than the tories who will give them no chance.

Hope you're right mate - I would find it really difficult to support and to vote for someone like Andy Burnham.

 

[londonblue]

Hope you're right mate - I would find it really difficult to support and to vote for someone like Andy Burnham.

Personally I thought he handled the Hillsborough debate brilliantly. Other than that I must confess I don't know a huge amount about him. I thought he was as good as Benn was during the air strikes debate.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Ooo get you.

Ha! I did study political science at degree level you know.:raspberry:

 

[londonblue]

Ha! I did study political science at degree level you know.:raspberry:

I'm surprised you haven't mentioned it before.

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

I suspect you don't know Islington.I do, as one of my brothers lives there.There are still plenty of traditional Labour voters living there.

Yeah, all sitting in their million plus pound houses criticising the government - f****** hypocrites the lot of them.

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

I'm bemused by Labour supporters who won't vote for JC - to me he's what the party should be about, not a slightly weaker carbon copy of the Tories. I wonder if they'll being kidded by the press who will always paint a bad picture of him?

A Labour PM at any price? No thanks, that's what brought up Blair, illegal wars and a shift to the right.

Yes but Blair won - Corbyn politics don't win anything.

 

[MK Shrimper]

Yes but Blair won - Corbyn politics don't win anything.

To me, it's like putting SUFC shirts on Leicester City and saying we won the Prem.

 

[rigsby]

Ha! I did study political science at degree level you know.:raspberry:

Did you miss the first lesson.....Chose an electable leader or your guaranteed to lose.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I'm not. I won't vote for someone that is taking the party back to the dark ages because they simply won't win a general election under him. I would rather have a left of centre left party that has chance of success and will be less bad than the tories than one that is true to its core, but only appeals to its core, and will therefore give the tories free reign.

If it takes people to stop voting for the labour party to make the wake up and smell the coffee then so bit it.

Can I ask - your issues with Corbyn - is it merely that you don't think the public will vote Labour with him as leader or do you object to his policies? If it is policies then which ones are putting you off?

 

[South Bank Hank]

Yeah, all sitting in their million plus pound houses criticising the government - f****** hypocrites the lot of them.

Why does their house price make them hypocrites? What do you propose, they sell up, move somewhere cheaper and give the rest to charity so they can be entitled to an opinion on the government's approach to welfare issues?

 

[londonblue]

Can I ask - your issues with Corbyn - is it merely that you don't think the public will vote Labour with him as leader or do you object to his policies? If it is policies then which ones are putting you off?

I don't think the public will vote for him: he comes over as a wet fish and certainly does not come over as statesman-like which will put off a lot of voters. I also don't like the company he keeps.

I don't know a lot about his policies, and ASAIC it's up to him to make it clear what he stands for. So far he hasn't done that, he's just asked questions based on what people have emailed into him. The sentiment might be good, but it doesn't really tell us anything about him, except he obviously has penchant for public "phone-ins". He's even admitted he's not very good at it.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I don't think the public will vote for him: he comes over as a wet fish and certainly does not come over as statesman-like which will put off a lot of voters. I also don't like the company he keeps.

I don't know a lot about his policies, and ASAIC it's up to him to make it clear what he stands for. So far he hasn't done that, he's just asked questions based on what people have emailed into him. The sentiment might be good, but it doesn't really tell us anything about him, except he obviously has penchant for public "phone-ins". He's even admitted he's not very good at it.

So if your main reason for disapproving of him is that you don't think the public will vote for him maybe you should hold back a little until there has been a reasonable chance to find out. He has won massive support from within the party (he won in all sections of the vote) and Labour have won convincingly in 3 big cities recently. Negatively towards him mainly based on presumed negativity of others is a self fulfilling prophecy. If you find a Corbyn led Labour a better option than the Tories, Lib Dems, UKIP or the Greens then with a realistic perspective on it you would vote Labour even if they are the least bad.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

Just read the above.
1. Lots won't vote for JC or MaccieD; both have too many noxious skeletons in the cupboard to be widely trusted.
2. JC talks a lot of **** BUT he also talks some good sense AND he highlights that the Tories are not socially inclusive or have any desire/will to improve the lot of the lower strata of society.
3. JC and MaccyD as support acts for a serious, sensible Labour leader who (he/she) doesn't have the baggage history WOULD be vote winners.

Just my opinion ( and vote).

 

[londonblue]

So if your main reason for disapproving of him is that you don't think the public will vote for him maybe you should hold back a little until there has been a reasonable chance to find out. He has won massive support from within the party (he won in all sections of the vote) and Labour have won convincingly in 3 big cities recently. Negatively towards him mainly based on presumed negativity of others is a self fulfilling prophecy. If you find a Corbyn led Labour a better option than the Tories, Lib Dems, UKIP or the Greens then with a realistic perspective on it you would vote Labour even if they are the least bad.

We've been here before with people like Michael Foot. Plus, his stance on anti-Semitism is the main reason I won't vote for him. He has won massive support from people who have the same views as him, views I wholeheartedly disagree with.

I won't be voting Labour until he's gone. At the moment the conservatives are the least bad in my view, and I won't vote for them until Camerscum has delivered on his promise to not contest the next election. It would be ironic if that was the only promise he manages to keep during his tenure.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

We've been here before with people like Michael Foot. Plus, his stance on anti-Semitism is the main reason I won't vote for him. He has won massive support from people who have the same views as him, views I wholeheartedly disagree with.

I won't be voting Labour until he's gone. At the moment the conservatives are the least bad in my view, and I won't vote for them until Camerscum has delivered on his promise to not contest the next election. It would be ironic if that was the only promise he manages to keep during his tenure.

His stance on anti-Semitism is that he is anti all types of racism (and in the press even his biggest detractors state that he is not anti-Semitic). In his campaigning for the people of Palestine he has shared platforms with people who would be classed as anti-Semitic - but he isn't. The amount of anti-Semitic people within the Labour Party would be a tiny minority and no bigger a % than in the Conservatives or UKIP - both of which have a history of having racist supporters that they too try to distance themselves from. So this doesn't amount to massive support within the Labour Party on that issue, it amounts to tiny support and those that try to exaggerate that usually have an agenda.


If you see the current Conservatives as the least bad in your view then I am amazed that you have ever been a Labour voter. In the first year of this Parliament the Tories have forced the BMA into the first doctors strike ever, they have reduced disability allowance by £30 a week, they have attempted to force all schools to become academies (many would be run by private companies), attempted to do away with animal welfare laws, constantly talk about withdrawing from human rights legislation, ran a Mayoral campaign so divisive that many of their own MPs and party grandees have condemned it, and offered up a referendum where the options are World War III (says the PM) or the realisation of Hitler's plans (says Boris Johnson).


If this is genuinely the least bad option in your mind then you are not the target voter for the Labour Party now or in the future, which is fine as no one party can't appeal to all sections of society and Labour are better off targeting people who are not attracted to the current government.