Jcr

[Somerset Ex-TTB]

I totally agree, and although that list of Premier****e teams is interesting, that only a few have been active, its not an indicitave indication of the situation at SUFC.

Most clubs in the premier****e have larger squads and will only turn over 2 or 3 high level players in a close season. If SUFC only need to sign 2 or 3 players then most of us would not be worried.

I believe that people are starting to panic, as last year our paper thin squad cost us, and with Gutteridge, Smith, Prior, Lawson etc all gone, we only have 16 or 17 first team players at the club at present. We are probably going to lose Freddy, Hooper hasn't signed yet, nobody knows what is happening with Paynter or Wilson. Rumours of JCR, Hammell leaving could decimate the squad even further.

This all means that a very large rebuilding exercise needs to be carried out before next season, with a minimum total of 5 or 6 players to be brought in, means a hell of a lot of work needs to be done in an incraesingly short space of time.

This is why people are starting to worry and be concerned, its only natural (for most, other than the people in the "Tilly can run over my cat/dog/child and I will still worship the ground he walks on camp). This does not mean that I am a Tilly basher etc. and he and Ron still have my full support. It just means I am slightly concerned.

Yes, I am sure that things are going on in the background, and I, nor anybody else (I hope) are not moaning about something that hasn't happened yet. All I was saying that I am starting to feel a little uneasy.

 

[Jam_Man]

Most clubs in the premier****e have larger squads and will only turn over 2 or 3 high level players in a close season. If SUFC only need to sign 2 or 3 players then most of us would not be worried.

Sorry, I agree we need to strengthen the squad but lets keep some perspective we have the same first team bar Freddy so for the beginning of the season we dont need any more than 2 or 3 more in a huge hurry.

1. Flahavan
2. Francis
3. Hammell
4. Clarke
5. Barrett
6. Mcormack
7. JCR
8. Maher
9. McDonald
10. ????
11. JCR

With that line up we go into the season with a decent side, thats settled and already gelled.

We need strengthening without a doubt as theres no cover for certain areas and we need that no. 10 but we arent in a terrible position.

Ask Johnny Stokes what transfer issues really are!

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

1. Flahavan
2. Francis
3. Hammell
4. Clarke
5. Barrett
6. Mcormack
7. JCR
8. Maher
9. McDonald
10. ????
11. JCR

He's here, he's there
He's every-f***ing-where
JCR
JCR

Yes, so good you can pick him twice!

:p

Let's give Marky G the number 7 shirt. Happy to give Hoops the number 10 to start off with.

Matt

 

[South Bank Hank]

I totally agree, and although that list of Premier****e teams is interesting, that only a few have been active, its not an indicitave indication of the situation at SUFC.

Most clubs in the premier****e have larger squads and will only turn over 2 or 3 high level players in a close season. If SUFC only need to sign 2 or 3 players then most of us would not be worried.

I believe that people are starting to panic, as last year our paper thin squad cost us, and with Gutteridge, Smith, Prior, Lawson etc all gone, we only have 16 or 17 first team players at the club at present. We are probably going to lose Freddy, Hooper hasn't signed yet, nobody knows what is happening with Paynter or Wilson. Rumours of JCR, Hammell leaving could decimate the squad even further.

This all means that a very large rebuilding exercise needs to be carried out before next season, with a minimum total of 5 or 6 players to be brought in, means a hell of a lot of work needs to be done in an incraesingly short space of time.

This is why people are starting to worry and be concerned, its only natural (for most, other than the people in the "Tilly can run over my cat/dog/child and I will still worship the ground he walks on camp). This does not mean that I am a Tilly basher etc. and he and Ron still have my full support. It just means I am slightly concerned.

Yes, I am sure that things are going on in the background, and I, nor anybody else (I hope) are not moaning about something that hasn't happened yet. All I was saying that I am starting to feel a little uneasy.

Indeed, I think we're all aware of the challenges we've had with small squads. It's a shame you're playing the "Tilly could kill my mother and I'd still love him to pieces card" though as it's a stereotype and it's unhelpful to any sensible discussion. Even those of us who do love him to pieces recognise that he is a young, learning manager.

Realistically, I don't see why teams in the Premiership should have more settled squads just because they are where they are. Look at Derby for instance. They've just been promoted and haven't signed a bean (or so it appears). On the same score, Sunderland have only signed one. You could hardly say Fulham's squad was good enough last year, yet they haven't announced any signings yet. Southend are no different to anyone else.

If we have learned anything over the last few years, we must have learned that signing the right players can sometimes take time. By all accounts, we were touting for MacDonald last season and it's taken this long to get him. While Gillingham signed four yesterday, two of those players were unattached.

All I'm calling for is the same as I've always done; a little perspective and a little patience. We paid last year for our inability to bring in sufficient QUALITY. It's clear from the noises the club has made that we've certainly not been hanging around in our search for players. Players, agents and club officials have all spoken about how difficult it is right now. If things don't happen in the next couple of weeks, then there might well be a problem. Let's just give people a chance though, shall we?

Besides all this, the major point I was making in my first post:
JCR saying "I want to stay at Southend" twice in four short sentences does not ring the death-bell for his future at this club no matter which way you spin it.

 

[Somerset Ex-TTB]

Sorry, I agree we need to strengthen the squad but lets keep some perspective we have the same first team bar Freddy so for the beginning of the season we dont need any more than 2 or 3 more in a huge hurry.

1. Flahavan
2. Francis
3. Hammell
4. Clarke
5. Barrett
6. Mcormack
7. JCR
8. Maher
9. McDonald
10. ????
11. JCR

With that line up we go into the season with a decent side, thats settled and already gelled.

We need strengthening without a doubt as theres no cover for certain areas and we need that no. 10 but we arent in a terrible position.

Ask Johnny Stokes what transfer issues really are!

That is an OK starting 11. (However cutting JCR in half and having him play on both wings is a bit drastic).

Yes its an 11 that is gelled but it is an 11 that has been used to losing for the past year, and it is certainly not an 11 that can't be improved upon.

OK, so maybe we only need another 2 or 3 as first team regulars, but look at the back up.

Collis
Hunt
Wilson (Maybe)
Moussa
Hooper (Maybe)
Paynter (Maybe)
Foran
Bradbury
Harrold
Ademeno

That doesn't inspire me with a lot of confidence.

 

[Richard_Cadette]

I do agree that it is a little early for people to start gnawing at fingers just yet, and that included the players, but perhaps the reason JCR is concerned is not because it is getting particularly late on in the day, but because it was the same last seaosn at the beginning of the season and during the transfer window, and maybe he is trying to highlight the fact that policy needs to change.

None of us know what is going on behind the scenes, Tilly may well have 3 or 4 players lined up and by this time next week they will all have signed, but i would imaging JCR probably has a better insight than all of us, so if a player is saying what a lot of people on here are saying, should we be more worried?

I dont know, if I was more cynical, perhaps that story has been released in an effort to alert other clubs to his potential unhappiness and that he can play his 'get out of jail free' card with us, the fans, by saying he wanted to stay but the lack of ambition shown by SUFC forced him to move on. I will give JCR the benefit of the doubt on this because I truly believe he loves playing for us, and he loves the rapport he has with the supporters, but he is only human, and if his agent keeps telling him he can do better than us, then sooner or later, he will start to believe it.

Personaly, I would like to see some new faces pretty quickly, on top of MacDonald. We are way top heavy at the moment, something in the region of 9 strikers, so it is unrealistic to think we wont see more going through the exit door before the season starts, which will reduce our squad more. In addition to that, you have to question whether the likes of Bradbury, Harrold and Foran are good enough for this level. That leaves Freddy, who will almost certainly be plying his trade elsewhere come August, Paynter, who no one seems to have any idea where he will be next season, Hooper, who after refusing to sign a 2 year deal, should be told where to get off, and MacDonald, who although I believe to be a cracking signing, is unproven at this level. Not a mouth watering prospect when you break it down is it?

If you then look further back down the team, we have no options in central midfield should someone get injured, nor do we have someone who is creative in that area, and based on what Tilly has said about trying to bring in Tommy Black from Palace, he is well aware of that issue too. We have no cover on the flanks either, yes Foran can play on the left, but apart from JCR, we dont have any other genuine right sided midfielders.

In defence, we only have 2 centre backs, and both are very similar in standing, I would have thought we would require at least 1 more, possibly 2, and certainly someone who is a strong and commanding centre half.

When you take all of that into consideration, I personally think Tilly and Brush have a lot of work to do in an ever shortening space of time, and by the longer time goes on, the harder it is going to get for the pair of them.

As I said, it is early for people to be ringing The Samaritansm but another week or so without any activity, then you would have to start questioniing exactly what the plan for next season is.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

We need a commanding centre-half to play alongside either Barrett or Clarke, a central midfielder to cover McCormack and a wide player to cover Gower and JCR. That is one starter and 2 subs otherwise its a case of shifting players out before we get new players in.

Up front McDonald, Hooper, Paynter, Harrold, Foran and Bradbury offer enough options. McDonald and Hooper are talented and unproven but Paynter, Bradbury and to an extent young Harrold are established players at this level.

 

[DTS]

I do agree that it is a little early for people to start gnawing at fingers just yet, and that included the players, but perhaps the reason JCR is concerned is not because it is getting particularly late on in the day, but because it was the same last seaosn at the beginning of the season and during the transfer window, and maybe he is trying to highlight the fact that policy needs to change.

None of us know what is going on behind the scenes, Tilly may well have 3 or 4 players lined up and by this time next week they will all have signed, but i would imaging JCR probably has a better insight than all of us, so if a player is saying what a lot of people on here are saying, should we be more worried?

I dont know, if I was more cynical, perhaps that story has been released in an effort to alert other clubs to his potential unhappiness and that he can play his 'get out of jail free' card with us, the fans, by saying he wanted to stay but the lack of ambition shown by SUFC forced him to move on. I will give JCR the benefit of the doubt on this because I truly believe he loves playing for us, and he loves the rapport he has with the supporters, but he is only human, and if his agent keeps telling him he can do better than us, then sooner or later, he will start to believe it.

Personaly, I would like to see some new faces pretty quickly, on top of MacDonald. We are way top heavy at the moment, something in the region of 9 strikers, so it is unrealistic to think we wont see more going through the exit door before the season starts, which will reduce our squad more. In addition to that, you have to question whether the likes of Bradbury, Harrold and Foran are good enough for this level. That leaves Freddy, who will almost certainly be plying his trade elsewhere come August, Paynter, who no one seems to have any idea where he will be next season, Hooper, who after refusing to sign a 2 year deal, should be told where to get off, and MacDonald, who although I believe to be a cracking signing, is unproven at this level. Not a mouth watering prospect when you break it down is it?

If you then look further back down the team, we have no options in central midfield should someone get injured, nor do we have someone who is creative in that area, and based on what Tilly has said about trying to bring in Tommy Black from Palace, he is well aware of that issue too. We have no cover on the flanks either, yes Foran can play on the left, but apart from JCR, we dont have any other genuine right sided midfielders.

In defence, we only have 2 centre backs, and both are very similar in standing, I would have thought we would require at least 1 more, possibly 2, and certainly someone who is a strong and commanding centre half.

When you take all of that into consideration, I personally think Tilly and Brush have a lot of work to do in an ever shortening space of time, and by the longer time goes on, the harder it is going to get for the pair of them.

As I said, it is early for people to be ringing The Samaritansm but another week or so without any activity, then you would have to start questioniing exactly what the plan for next season is.

In fairness you are spot on with your assesment on the squad I think.

Actually makes me feel a bit sick when you look what we need.

:mad:

 

[Beefy]

I dont know, if I was more cynical, perhaps that story has been released in an effort to alert other clubs to his potential unhappiness and that he can play his 'get out of jail free' card with us, the fans, by saying he wanted to stay but the lack of ambition shown by SUFC forced him to move on. I will give JCR the benefit of the doubt on this because I truly believe he loves playing for us, and he loves the rapport he has with the supporters, but he is only human, and if his agent keeps telling him he can do better than us, then sooner or later, he will start to believe it.

I think that there is a good chance that that is exactly what is going on. He says in that piece that he's concerned that no one has spoken about a new contract but I'm sure that the club said a few weeks ago that they wouldn't be entering into contract talks with any of the players with only a year left on their deals until Christmas-time. I hope I'm wrong though. JCR could be a really top player in League One.

I'm sure his first choice would be to stay and for us to go up but I'm not ready to buy into his claims about his undying love for this club and it's fans.

 

[Richard_Cadette]

We need a commanding centre-half to play alongside either Barrett or Clarke, a central midfielder to cover McCormack and a wide player to cover Gower and JCR. That is one starter and 2 subs otherwise its a case of shifting players out before we get new players in.

Up front McDonald, Hooper, Paynter, Harrold, Foran and Bradbury offer enough options. McDonald and Hooper are talented and unproven but Paynter, Bradbury and to an extent young Harrold are established players at this level.

Have to disagree with you there YB, I dont think they are anywhere near enough options at this level.

Hopper doesnt want to sign a 2 year contract, so as far as I am concerned, and in fairness, it sounded like Brushy agreed in his interview on the subjest, he wont be here come August. And nor should he, that attitude is not one we want amongst out players.

Harrold is not good enough at this level and certainly isnt proved - He couldnt break into Yeovil's first team at this level. We have all seen enough to know he is not going to be the answer.

Bradbury, for all his effort and commitment, just doesnt cut the mustard as a striker anymore. His scoring rate is appalling and based on the evidence of last season, he will not be able to contribute enough up front to warrant a place in th the team.

Foran I have an open mind on, but from what i saw last season, again, serious question marks over both his ability and desire to fight for the cause.

That leaves Charlie Mac, who I think could be a cracking signing, but again, unproved, Billy Paynter, who a lot of people assume has played his last game for the club, and Freddy.

Sorry, that just spells trouble for me.

 

[Interpol Shrimper]

I think we also need to remember who JCR's agent is too in terms of this story.
The ever-reliable Richard Cody..........

 

[Clinton Baptiste]

Bradders will be eased out this season, Paynter will be sold if he doesnt score a hat trick by September as the fans will get on his back again. Harrold sorry but the guy is absolute guff. Foran is another Guttridge waiting to happen, and Hooper is still a rough diamond. We need a pacy forward but if the service isnt there then you could have Michael Owen and Drogba up front it wouldnt make a differnece. Macca for all his energy and drive, has very little creative skill. All his and Mahers goals were scored outside the box bar one which tells you they dont get in the box enough. People criticise JCR but how many times did he look up and see only Bradbury or Freddy in the box with about 4 or 5 defenders. Add in Mahers and Macs 10 games each they will miss thru suspension and we need 2 quality midfielders.

 

[South Bank Hank]

When you take all of that into consideration, I personally think Tilly and Brush have a lot of work to do in an ever shortening space of time, and by the longer time goes on, the harder it is going to get for the pair of them.

As I said, it is early for people to be ringing The Samaritansm but another week or so without any activity, then you would have to start questioniing exactly what the plan for next season is.

Good summation RC. I'm sure T&B aren't just sitting around smoking dope, and hope that any un-publicised work going on behind the scenes right now, pays off. It should point to an interesting couple of weeks. We can all hope it's interesting for the right reason.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Have to disagree with you there YB, I dont think they are anywhere near enough options at this level.

Hopper doesnt want to sign a 2 year contract, so as far as I am concerned, and in fairness, it sounded like Brushy agreed in his interview on the subjest, he wont be here come August. And nor should he, that attitude is not one we want amongst out players.

Harrold is not good enough at this level and certainly isnt proved - He couldnt break into Yeovil's first team at this level. We have all seen enough to know he is not going to be the answer.

Bradbury, for all his effort and commitment, just doesnt cut the mustard as a striker anymore. His scoring rate is appalling and based on the evidence of last season, he will not be able to contribute enough up front to warrant a place in th the team.

Foran I have an open mind on, but from what i saw last season, again, serious question marks over both his ability and desire to fight for the cause.

That leaves Charlie Mac, who I think could be a cracking signing, but again, unproved, Billy Paynter, who a lot of people assume has played his last game for the club, and Freddy.

Sorry, that just spells trouble for me.

If Hooper and Paynter don't stay that is two bodies we will have shifted out, meaning that there will be room for two new players. I said if players leave, we will need to get replacements in.

What sort of attitude is it you don't want from Hooper? Ambition? Wanting to play first team football rather than stuck in the reserves? They would all be legitimate reasons for wanting a 1 year deal, and I would rather someone on that basis than someone who just wanted to come for the money. I don't know why he doesn't want to stay, but neither do you.

Just because people assume Paynter has played his last game for the club, doesn't mean he has. If we lack a proven league one forward we don't sell him, its as easy as that. First team football is the best cure for homesickness.

So we partner the potential of Hooper or McDonald with the experience of either Paynter or Bradbury, who was a part of our title winning side and despite his flaws, has played extensively at a higher level.

On top of that, we have Harrold, who proved himself as a squad player for Yeovil (which is the role he'll be fulfilling here, possibly more if he continues to develop) and Foran who initially impressed in a higher division before losing his way. I think he might have even played in this division for Carlisle(?), but if not is proven in the SPL.

I think our players are good enough individually, its a case of blending them together as a team. I think we are some way off that, but it isn't for a lack of quality or quantity, but a matter of balancing weaknesses against strengths.

 

[Richard_Cadette]

If Hooper and Paynter don't stay that is two bodies we will have shifted out, meaning that there will be room for two new players. I said if players leave, we will need to get replacements in.

What sort of attitude is it you don't want from Hooper? Ambition? Wanting to play first team football rather than stuck in the reserves? They would all be legitimate reasons for wanting a 1 year deal, and I would rather someone on that basis than someone who just wanted to come for the money. I don't know why he doesn't want to stay, but neither do you.

Just because people assume Paynter has played his last game for the club, doesn't mean he has. If we lack a proven league one forward we don't sell him, its as easy as that. First team football is the best cure for homesickness.

So we partner the potential of Hooper or McDonald with the experience of either Paynter or Bradbury, who was a part of our title winning side and despite his flaws, has played extensively at a higher level.

On top of that, we have Harrold, who proved himself as a squad player for Yeovil (which is the role he'll be fulfilling here, possibly more if he continues to develop) and Foran who initially impressed in a higher division before losing his way. I think he might have even played in this division for Carlisle(?), but if not is proven in the SPL.

I think our players are good enough individually, its a case of blending them together as a team. I think we are some way off that, but it isn't for a lack of quality or quantity, but a matter of balancing weaknesses against strengths.

Gary Hooper should have been over the moon to be offered a 2 year deal, he didnt exactly set the world alight last season, and us giving him a 2 year deal says that we have faith in him and think he will develop into a decent player. If he doesnt want to sign a 2 year deal, then fine - go find a club else where who will offer you a 1 year deal. Bottom line is he wanted a shorter term contract, and players who do not want to commit there future to this, or any other club for that matter, are not the kind you want in your side.

I never said Paynter wouldnt play for us again, I said many people assume he wont. I hope he will, as I think he will be an asset at this level, but something tells me too much has gone on for him to want to stay here - and if reports that his house is up for sale are true, then that would signal the end for me.

You have your opinions about our potential strike force next season, and I have mine - Charlie Mac/Billy Paynter sounds like a half decent partnership, but any partnership involving the other 2 aforementioned players does not, certainly not enough to score us the goals we will need to get on the promotion trail, and thats what we have to be aiming for.

The one key ingredient we are missing in all of this of course if pace - we dont have any up front, something which Tilly and Brush have spoke about before, meaning they will be on the lookout for a pacey striker as well.

 

[Suffolk Blue]

Gary Hooper should have been over the moon to be offered a 2 year deal, he didnt exactly set the world alight last season, and us giving him a 2 year deal says that we have faith in him and think he will develop into a decent player. If he doesnt want to sign a 2 year deal, then fine - go find a club else where who will offer you a 1 year deal. Bottom line is he wanted a shorter term contract, and players who do not want to commit there future to this, or any other club for that matter, are not the kind you want in your side.

It all depends on how much money we are expecting him to work for for the next two years. If he think he's worth more then a one year deal gives him the opportunity to renegotiate from a stronger position next time around. I too work on a contract basis and if I'm offered less than the rate I want I'll only sign a short-term contract and hope that I can convince the client that I'm worth when they look to keep me on, or else be free to tout my wares around for more money. I don't really expect loyalty from players, clubs don't show much to them in return do they?

I never said Paynter wouldnt play for us again, I said many people assume he wont. I hope he will, as I think he will be an asset at this level, but something tells me too much has gone on for him to want to stay here - and if reports that his house is up for sale are true, then that would signal the end for me.

I'd love the guy to stick around and prove the boo boys wrong but he'll probably stay with Bradford where they seemed to take to him from the start.

You have your opinions about our potential strike force next season, and I have mine - Charlie Mac/Billy Paynter sounds like a half decent partnership, but any partnership involving the other 2 aforementioned players does not, certainly not enough to score us the goals we will need to get on the promotion trail, and thats what we have to be aiming for.

I've got no real problem with any of the forwards we have as we face next season in League 1. I hope and expect that we're looking at a Professional Big Bloke to complement them though.

The one key ingredient we are missing in all of this of course if pace - we dont have any up front, something which Tilly and Brush have spoke about before, meaning they will be on the lookout for a pacey striker as well.

What do we know about Charlie? Is he quick, strong, skilful, or a bit of each.

 

[Beefy]

It all depends on how much money we are expecting him to work for for the next two years. If he think he's worth more then a one year deal gives him the opportunity to renegotiate from a stronger position next time around. I too work on a contract basis and if I'm offered less than the rate I want I'll only sign a short-term contract and hope that I can convince the client that I'm worth when they look to keep me on, or else be free to tout my wares around for more money. I don't really expect loyalty from players, clubs don't show much to them in return do they?

I don't think it's about the money with Hooper which is why his agent recommended that he signed. I think he's genuinely concerned about his career and doesn't want to spend two years sitting in our reserves. I think his attitude is pretty admirable.

 

[Andy_S]

Being an out of towner I've only seen the report on the echo's site and not actually in the paper, but am I the only one who links the "lack of activity" to his contract expiring in 12 months and not anything to do with transfer activity?

Just seems like creative journalism to me.

 

[shrimper4life]

Being an out of towner I've only seen the report on the echo's site and not actually in the paper, but am I the only one who links the "lack of activity" to his contract expiring in 12 months and not anything to do with transfer activity?

Just seems like creative journalism to me.

Either way, we should be getting both things sorted now. By December, if JCR hasn't signed a new contract, we'd lose a good player and a decent fee. I've always thought contracts should be done 12 months before it expires for key players so we don't miss out on a fee or the player wont leave.

 

[Richard_Cadette]

What do we know about Charlie? Is he quick, strong, skilful, or a bit of each.

From what I have seen, granted not a lot, and the reports I have read, by all accounts he is a bit of a 'fox in the box' type player who thrives on chances - so Lord only knows why he signed for us :)

Seriously though, I dont think he is blessed with bags of pace, but I am willing to be proved wrong, but is more you typical poacher centre forward, which is fine by me, as we havent had one of them for a very long time now.

PS... Saw you on the way to Southampton last game of last season by the way, unless there are 2 suffolk shrimpers who have banners in the back of there cars? :)