How much longer, for god's sake?

[rlb999]

our team is crap (excluding some lonees) make no mistake anout that and have been all season. Ron must get his priorities in place and THAT IS NOT A NEW STADFIUM. It is paying for decent players who may eventually half fill his new stdium

Never heard such short termist nonsense in my life. I hear Michael Owen is available in January. He's a decent player, so why don't we get him in, then wonder in 12 months time why we've gone bust?

People need to understand that we have a gate of 7,000, and we can't spend like a team with a gate of 17,000.

 

[duncan bulgaria]

A gret post DtS - stirring stuff indeed.

I will take issue with a couple of points though. Whilst losing/winning runs are part and parcel of the life of a football manager, it's not the run we're on that people have the issue with. It's the inherent lack of quality we have in our squad which means that a losing run could end up turning into something far more terminal. In seasons past, despite having periods of being out of form, you always believed Tilly had the players at his disposal to halt a bad run, and the players we knew were capable of better - at the moment, I'm not sure we know either. While all of Tilly's achivements have been fabulous, should the worst case scenario come true in May, we would be back where we started.

The other point is, we should not blindly back someone just because he is one of us. Tilly has to be in the job because he earns it on merit - not because he is a legend of a footballer for this club, nor that he has always been a part of this area. I'm not saying he hasn't earnt the right - of course he has, he has been amazing, but sentiment and football are not good bed fellows. This is kind of the issue I have with Barrett at the moment - people forgive his lack of ability because he bleeds blue blood - that approach can be dangerous.

No mistake though, great post, and you're right - they need OUR support more than ever right now.

Another great post RC , my gripe is exactly the way we are losing , and the fact it happens in the same manner all the time , Tilly yes is a legend , but there has been far more legends at other clubs that have found themselves out of favour after a freefall period .

If we were getting beat by the odd goal , and have scored a few our selves and where just not getting the rub of the green , far enough , but it is a lot more serious than that IMO and one that could end us back where we started when Tilly took over . Which would be shame for for Tilly as he deserves better than that .

 

[rlb999]

Its this type of post (The intital one not mine hopefully) that makes me wonder why Tilly and Brush ****ing bother.

Agreed. The great thing about forums is you get a range of differing views, and I fully uphold that. However there comes a point when some people are just talking boll****.

 

[DTS]

Danny Wilson and Paul Ince,to name but two managers who are currently out of work...just a thought

Danny Wilson has done SO well at Hartlepool and Ince changes clubs every season?????? Not ideal.....

 

[jerseyshrimper]

Never heard such short termist nonsense in my life. I hear Michael Owen is available in January. He's a decent player, so why don't we get him in, then wonder in 12 months time why we've gone bust?

People need to understand that we have a gate of 7,000, and we can't spend like a team with a gate of 17,000.

It is not short term nonsence, it ut was i and a lot of other supporters are thinking, what the hell do we want a 22,000 seater stadium for with the support we have?.
No one is suggesting michael owen but we need some decent defenders because ours is a shambles, and another midfielder would not go amiss either.The lack of investment in the defensive area is going to cost us dearly, when suspensions iand injuries creep in as they are doing

 

[DTS]

A gret post DtS - stirring stuff indeed.

I will take issue with a couple of points though. Whilst losing/winning runs are part and parcel of the life of a football manager, it's not the run we're on that people have the issue with. It's the inherent lack of quality we have in our squad which means that a losing run could end up turning into something far more terminal. In seasons past, despite having periods of being out of form, you always believed Tilly had the players at his disposal to halt a bad run, and the players we knew were capable of better - at the moment, I'm not sure we know either. While all of Tilly's achivements have been fabulous, should the worst case scenario come true in May, we would be back where we started.

The other point is, we should not blindly back someone just because he is one of us. Tilly has to be in the job because he earns it on merit - not because he is a legend of a footballer for this club, nor that he has always been a part of this area. I'm not saying he hasn't earnt the right - of course he has, he has been amazing, but sentiment and football are not good bed fellows. This is kind of the issue I have with Barrett at the moment - people forgive his lack of ability because he bleeds blue blood - that approach can be dangerous.

No mistake though, great post, and you're right - they need OUR support more than ever right now.

Without wanting to look like an arse licker always enjoy your posts RC

I take your point on board but would like to reply to the two issues.

1) Quaility.

I still dont think the team is lacking in quality as much as others seems to.

Milldenhall seems to me to be a decent if unspectacular keeper. Barrett & Clarke are a little similar but neither could be classed as bad defenders and Francis clearly has quality but applying that is sometimes his problem.

In the middle we still have Macca who has been a class act. Betsy clearly is no mug having been promoted from this level twice before. Add to this JFC and possibly Sawyer and you have the makings of a decent midfield. The left wing spot is an enigma to me and has been since the god that is Gower was hounded out the club by Ldn Fasto.

Upfront I dont think anyone would back against Freedman and Barnard if they could both stay fit. Sadly this proves tough for them but they are both class acts as anyone that went to Crewe this year can testify.

We have attracted classy loan players to the club. Sadly the real issue is we cannot afford to keep them but we hope this will change with the new stadium and the revenue it can bring.

We lack depth but I think most clubs at this level are the same. I dont think the issue is the quality as such but more the confidence and getting the blend right.

2) I dont advocate backing Tilly whatever the case as clearly if we are rock bottom of the 4th (as it was in my day) then we have to ask questions. I just find the whole calling for his head when were in mid-table madness. Some people have delusions of grandure I fear. The reason we are able to sit here today and moan about being mid-table in this league is due to the work Tilson has done before.

 

[gazzacat42]

Unfortunately if Ron dosen't give Tilly a decent amount of money to spend, we could end up like a Darlington or Oxford.
A new stadium is not the Holy Grail, but Swansea dispensed with Jackett when he did a fantastic job for them and put the foundations in for a Championship club.
If we are to get rid of Tilson which i think is ridiculous btw, we have to make sure it is someone superior and arguably could be the most important appointment Southend have ever made.
Not just for football reasons but financial as well.

 

[Csboy]

Unfortunately if Ron dosen't give Tilly a decent amount of money to spend, we could end up like a Darlington or Oxford.
A new stadium is not the Holy Grail, but Swansea dispensed with Jackett when he did a fantastic job for them and put the foundations in for a Championship club.
If we are to get rid of Tilson which i think is ridiculous btw, we have to make sure it is someone superior and arguably could be the most important appointment Southend have ever made.
Not just for football reasons but financial as well.

The thing is whoever we appoint he won't be superior to Tilson it will be another Wignall or Alvin Martin and if some fluke we find someone decent he will soon be off to better things Barry fry style. With Tilson you get not only a great manager but someone who is Southend through and through who won't just walk out on the club when something better comes along. After the double promtion he could have easily have found a bigger club if he wanted, bt he stayed loyal to Southend and its only fair to him the club remains loyal to him in return when things are not going so well. Of course that loyalty can't last forever but Tilson does deserve time to put things right.

 

[Richard_Cadette]

Without wanting to look like an arse licker always enjoy your posts RC

I take your point on board but would like to reply to the two issues.

1) Quaility.

I still dont think the team is lacking in quality as much as others seems to.

Milldenhall seems to me to be a decent if unspectacular keeper. Barrett & Clarke are a little similar but neither could be classed as bad defenders and Francis clearly has quality but applying that is sometimes his problem.

In the middle we still have Macca who has been a class act. Betsy clearly is no mug having been promoted from this level twice before. Add to this JFC and possibly Sawyer and you have the makings of a decent midfield. The left wing spot is an enigma to me and has been since the god that is Gower was hounded out the club by Ldn Fasto.

Upfront I dont think anyone would back against Freedman and Barnard if they could both stay fit. Sadly this proves tough for them but they are both class acts as anyone that went to Crewe this year can testify.

We have attracted classy loan players to the club. Sadly the real issue is we cannot afford to keep them but we hope this will change with the new stadium and the revenue it can bring.

We lack depth but I think most clubs at this level are the same. I dont think the issue is the quality as such but more the confidence and getting the blend right.

2) I dont advocate backing Tilly whatever the case as clearly if we are rock bottom of the 4th (as it was in my day) then we have to ask questions. I just find the whole calling for his head when were in mid-table madness. Some people have delusions of grandure I fear. The reason we are able to sit here today and moan about being mid-table in this league is due to the work Tilson has done before.

I'm more than happy to have you accused of a*** licking if it relates to my post fella :)

In response....

1) I guess football is a matter of opinion. Interestingly, I have no issue with the keeper. He started off a little hesitantly, but has now found his feet, and by all accounts made a super save in the first half last night. Not spectacular, but certainly not symptomatic of any of our problems.

Defensively, on the other hand, is a real problem. Barrett and Clarke are too similar, I agree, and the two of them together will always make us vulnerable from an aerial assault. Set pieces is a prime example. More than that, however, I don't actually think Adam Barrett is actually that good. Legend, yes, absolutely, but he comes up short IMO in terms of being a quality defender. As for Francis, I think at the moment, it is nigh on impossible to defend him. For as long as I am drawing breath, he will NEVER be a defender. Bit the bullet and work on him becoming a decent right sided midfielder, but he just isn't cut out for defending. All his qualities, and he has many, are leaning towards attacking play.

Midfield? It's far too lightweight and is completely devoid of any creativity whatsoever. Macca is half the player he has been over the last two seasons. I at first put that down to his long injury lay off, but I honestly believe the reason is actually related to the fact he is having to be the senior player in the centre of the park. Alongside Bailey and Maher, he was the less senior player, and absolutely thrived on it. Now, everything in the team has to go through him, and he is not enjoying it from where I'm sitting. Betsy I actually have no problem with. He, despite some peoples misgivings, has bags of talent, and I would imagine is one of the chief assister (is that a word?) in the team.

The rest of the midfield is just non existent as far as I am concerned. Stanislas seems to have some real raw talent about him, but he is not the kind of player like we had playing there when Gower was here, and how much can he really do for the team when the rest of the midfield is misfiring? Milson? Well he may be a decent winger, he is NOT a central midfielder, despite what he or anyone else may say.

The striking options are fine - we have an abundance of talent in that department, but defensively and in midfield, it is totally undermined. Create the chances, and any of our strikers will bang the goals in, no question.

2) I agree with you totally, but just ask the question - if Tilly was not a local lad, nor been a total legend of a player, would there be more dissenting voices about his future? I would suspect so. It's human nature to protect one of your own, no question, and he deserves the respect of everyone amongst us - Now more than ever, perhaps, he needs our backing, but he has to know he cannot be complacent, and the current slide has to be abated.

 

[Andy_S]

I would just like to say that Ron Martin is virtually demanding Championship football to try to fill our proposed new stadium and if we do not look like achieving that ---watch out. I was at the SUFC AGM when Ron gave a big vote of confidence to Tilly.

That is a point that continually comes up in my mind when I see the amount of people on here saying that we "should be happy with mid table" and "are we surprised that we're mid table?" etc. At the end of the day it doesn't matter what our aspirations are as fans, because the management and chairman have both said that the club are aiming for the Play Offs this season. Thus if we finish say 13th or 14th, methinks Ron is not going to be too happy. Ron came out with some strong words last season when we weren't doing too well and I fully expect him to do it again if our slump continues. The bare facts are that if we fail to beat Northampton on Boxing Day, we won't have won in the league for 2 months. This is IMHO Tilly's toughest test in his spell as manager and he needs to correct it quickly as the unrest will get more and more on matchday.