How do we compete with top budgets and how can we get there?

[Holy Joe]

12 are permitted for short term loans from between a minimum of 28 days or Max to season end Rule 647 and 6 long term loans are permitted

2 permitted to or from any one club at any time

In addition Youth loans can also be allowed at any time providing they are second or third year scholars or Co tract players aged 20 or below

Plenty of scope !

So over a season we can have 6 long term loans and 12 short term - plus unlimited kids on loan?


Of which we've had 2 long term (so used a third of our quota) and 2 short term (a sixth of our quota).

Is that right?

 

[Barry.C]

as above SHORT TERM LOAN (Also see Rule6.6.2) Any Contract Player Minimum: 28days.Maximum:Until end of Playing Season ^Cannot be recalled within first 28 days (except goalkeepers) 12 allowed

Plus 6 Long term loans also allowed at any time

LONG TERM LOAN (Also see Rule 6.6.3) Any Contract Player (a) Full Playing Season; or; (b) Any date during first professional game registration period to any date during second professional game registration period; or (c) Any date during second professional game registration period to the end of Playing Season Within the first or second registration period during which players may be registered for a professional men’s club (except where the Player is a goalkeeper or where the Player is being transferred permanently)
6 2 permitted to or from any one Club or club at any one time

 

[Barry.C]

So over a season we can have 6 long term loans and 12 short term - plus unlimited kids on loan?


Of which we've had 2 long term (so used a third of our quota) and 2 short term (a sixth of our quota).

Is that right?

I think you have got that right from my reading of the rules and from who you say we have brought in

 

[Barry.C]

So over a season we can have 6 long term loans and 12 short term - plus unlimited kids on loan?


Of which we've had 2 long term (so used a third of our quota) and 2 short term (a sixth of our quota).

Is that right?

Quickly bring in 14?

 

[Holy Joe]

Quickly bring in 14?

So the top clubs are utilising short term loans and/or kids mainly?

 

[rlb999]

Loans work well at this level. Most teams have a couple from the higher leagues and it enables teams to add some quality that they wouldn't get otherwise. Works for all parties - I don't have a problem with it - just don't fall in love with one of them. Lopata, Neal, Brunt, Pepple, Dennis etc.

 

[Barry.C]

So the top clubs are utilising short term loans and/or kids mainly?

Yes !

But a good mix of both but Gateshead also utilised 7 under 21 loanees mostly from the Championship and Premier league, ie Brighton Burnley, Middlesborough, Ipswich 2 from Derby, Birmingham and so on

 

[Holy Joe]

And how many loans can you name in a match day squad?

I'm intrigued how many of these loanees are actually getting game time. Or is to take a look in training, give em a game if they impress, etc

 

[Shrimper]

And how many loans can you name in a match day squad?

I'm intrigued how many of these loanees are actually getting game time. Or is to take a look in training, give em a game if they impress, etc

Up to 5 I think

 

[Barry.C]

And how many loans can you name in a match day squad?

I'm intrigued how many of these loanees are actually getting game time. Or is to take a look in training, give em a game if they impress, etc

Its 5 per game

 

[gatecrasher]

You don't need top budgets to compete until you hit upper echelons of league one.

We have a good team, a well paid team, we are just horrendously coached. A better manager has this lot top 7.

Cosu have put in a ridiculous amount of money to cover debt and getting off the field right. If they had walked into an average league 1/2 team sat in about 2/3m in debt and ok stadium, the money they spend already would of been able to field some great players at that level. Sadly Ron pretty much killed us and these boys have done enough.

I believe the playing budget is enough to be competitive, there are very few avenues to bring I'm extra at RH, any additional money for playing side will have to come from us fans in some shape or form or sponsorship - sadly the football on offer currently does not entice more into the ground on both these fronts.

 

[Barry.C]

And how many loans can you name in a match day squad?

I'm intrigued how many of these loanees are actually getting game time. Or is to take a look in training, give em a game if they impress, etc

I remember Sutton being fired to promotion by=2 key loanee forwards scoring lots of goals

To be fair , although I think very rare , I also Remember Ian Holloway some 14 a years go, ? ( Times have changed though since then, ) when he was Manager of Blackpool, s making a big thing of saying that his squad was struggling in the bottom half of the table but he signed one player that made all the difference , helped gel the side, so much so that they went on a great run and gained promotion
Probably a strike

 

[BoyWonder2]

I got a feeling Gateshead, York Barnet and others previously promoted might not agree with you there?

Somehow quite a few of their large number of loans were not called back. Naturally some were.
Our loans seem to be short term goalies for a start I also liked Moncur who ended up in the stands, not sure he benefitted from Kevs style. Pepple was a great Loanee. . The leading clubs manage to find quite a few Pepples or his equivalent in other positions, maybe 5 0r 6 in a short space of time

We have also managed Hillsom, Jeacock and Harness , and Golding initially for a month as part of our efforts


Of course the loanee system has some drawbacks but our approach for some years has been largely to limit our engagement with the opportunities provided I dont think Ron was a fan and the impression is given that neither is Kev

If you had an average of 9 although even to me that seems excessive, do you think they would all be called back? Do you think your chances of finding and retaining some good ones would be in your favour?

The thread was about how to compete to win promotion, given budget restraints , the top sides strategies clearly include doing it via taking on board huge chunk of what seem to be pretty decent loanees ( and a ton of free transfers )

I will repeat 27 loanees between them, just 3 clubs all in the hunt at the top

What I mean is that Kev prefers a core group of contracted players, supplemented with the odd loan here and there. The sort of loan that we simply couldn’t afford to have contracted, like Lopata appeared to be, and Neal & Brunt at the time.

However, the risk with loans, or relying heavily on the loan market is that they can be recalled, depending on the agreement, at the drop of a hat. Could be like Bim, that they are excelling at that level and want to move them up the pyramid. Could be like Moncur that they aren’t getting the game time, or could be like Jeacock because of injury at the parent club.

We lost three in a matter of days. Obviously Bim was a huge blow, the other two not so much, although Jeacock was better than the lad Saturday.

We aren’t compensated by their departures, whereas if we lost three permanent players, at least we have the fall back of transfer fees.

Yes, we should use the loan market a bit more, I agree, but I wouldn’t want to be hugely reliant upon it.

As for the loanees you mentioned, Hillson was “our” player, albeit on “non-contract” terms, he was never a loanee.

 

[Barry.C]

I honestly get that and you also seem to fairly confirm Kevs position that he prefers contracted players and will accept the odd loan
That affirms to me that he is not a fan of us embracing what is practically a different model and one that the league leaders are all adopting hugely succeccfully

This feeds into a view of the club and Kevin
rightly or wrongly , of a certain rigidity and unpreparedness to be more adventurous in this key arena. Especially when you have a small squad and the clear evidence before our eyes is that it’s much easier to get loanees in

I did suggest numbers help with this model . The more you have the less likely the impact if their are recalls However if Kev refuses to have 5 or 6 loanees the impact when our 3 go is more impactful
Plus we are denying ourselves a look at a lot more players
Equally if Kev wants permanent contracted players there may be more costs involved and clearly a longer wait. I’m not a fan of 3 year contracts

So it seems the culture As per usual is against us being more ambitious in the loan market? I may be wrong but I suspect Stan would have been pressing for more action on this front
I appreciate however your comment acknowledging we could or should be more expansive in exploring the loan market. Do you know if our loans involved shared costs?

P.s it seemed 2 people thought Pepple would be great after seeing him for 5 minutes I can’t believe John Still hasn’t seen a few but if Kev is largely against too many loanees we shall never get to see this particular potential promotion winning model more whilst he is in charge?

Despite all this I am not wanting Kev out just want him to open up a bit more to these opportunities and does he also still prefer a small squad.?

 

[Holy Joe]

If Golding is now here to end of season, is he now a long term loan? If so have we now used 3 of our 6 allowed long term loans? (Pebble, Moncur and Golding)

 

[Barry.C]

If Golding is now here to end of season, is he now a long term loan? If so have we now used 3 of our 6 allowed long term loans? (Pebble, Moncur and Golding)

I’m not really sure on that to be honest
It seemed a while before Goldings extension was confirmed, equally not the best communication on Woods return either? What’s going on there I wonder ?
Communications have perhaps over tightened apart from the Echo reporting of the next player in a long list of them since September telling us how they are going to step up etc

 

[Strykr]

Quickly bring in 14?

Thats what im thinking . Go full sturrock, assemble a new squad and have them competing in a week .

In terms of competing with the big budget teams, imo we just have to plough our own field and try and get our house in order.

Then hope we get lucky with a few outstanding signings that click and can sell on. Pretty much the way its been the last 50 years....

I was hoping john still would be bringing in the next freddy, gower, spinner etc. But it must be next to impossible these days with every club from prem to non league having massive exposure and dossiers of all players in all clubs from 10 years old plus. The days of nipping over southchurch park and finding the next tilly are long gone.

 

[BoyWonder2]

I honestly get that and you also seem to fairly confirm Kevs position that he prefers contracted players and will accept the odd loan
That affirms to me that he is not a fan of us embracing what is practically a different model and one that the league leaders are all adopting hugely succeccfully

This feeds into a view of the club and Kevin
rightly or wrongly , of a certain rigidity and unpreparedness to be more adventurous in this key arena. Especially when you have a small squad and the clear evidence before our eyes is that it’s much easier to get loanees in

I did suggest numbers help with this model . The more you have the less likely the impact if their are recalls However if Kev refuses to have 5 or 6 loanees the impact when our 3 go is more impactful
Plus we are denying ourselves a look at a lot more players
Equally if Kev wants permanent contracted players there may be more costs involved and clearly a longer wait. I’m not a fan of 3 year contracts

So it seems the culture As per usual is against us being more ambitious in the loan market? I may be wrong but I suspect Stan would have been pressing for more action on this front
I appreciate however your comment acknowledging we could or should be more expansive in exploring the loan market. Do you know if our loans involved shared costs?

P.s it seemed 2 people thought Pepple would be great after seeing him for 5 minutes I can’t believe John Still hasn’t seen a few but if Kev is largely against too many loanees we shall never get to see this particular potential promotion winning model more whilst he is in charge?

Despite all this I am not wanting Kev out just want him to open up a bit more to these opportunities and does he also still prefer a small squad.?

I won’t confirm on the ones we currently have, but obviously we were paying a percentage of Moncur’s wage whilst he was here.

Some loans we’ve picked up for “free” as in no loan fee (we’ve turned loans down because clubs want a loan fee) or wage contribution but obviously still have the other costs of a contracted player in terms of travel and accommodation at matches, putting them up at local hotels etc.

We’ve also had some where we have paid a wage contribution, like Moncur.

One thing Kev will never agree on, and PB never did either, was agree to a loan player having certain clauses like starting matches if fit, playing a minimum of X amount of minutes, never playing more than Y amount of minutes or we pay a larger percentage of wages if they aren’t playing etc.

We’ve picked up some excellent loans under Kev. The Sheffield United lads were excellent, Dennis did really well, Kanu started brilliantly etc.

I’d like more loans in, I’d like more transfers in, we may see some of that shortly.

 

[Mad Cyril]

I'd like to see more imagination when it comes to merch.

T shirts and hoodies featuring events from our history.

Who wouldn't buy a T shirt with this on the front?

 

[Firestorm]

I'd like to see more imagination when it comes to merch.

T shirts and hoodies featuring events from our history.

Who wouldn't buy a T shirt with this on the front?

View attachment 35385

the club did a sweatshirt later that year featuring That image and a couple of press cuttings as well (the Andy has the Ansah headline).

Mine wore out long ago.......