How do we compete with top budgets and how can we get there?

[bluesfansince1952]

The biggest problem to me seems that people are losing sight of two things: How close we were to going under and COSU’s stated intentions when they rescued us. Also how recently in our very long club history that actually was.

They have invested in the management team, they have invested in Roots Hall, they are ramping up the commercial side. To me, however frustrating the football is, it’s a fascinating journey much more worthy than a Sunderland til I die Netflix (though that was fantastic), the Hollywood Wrexham media love fest or the Premier League obscene money, VAR and all that goes with it.

Relax, sit back and enjoy the rebuild journey. It’s a long one (as intimated by COSU).

'It’s a long one (as intimated by COSU).'.......since 1906?

 

[Leigh_Seasider]

The biggest problem to me seems that people are losing sight of two things: How close we were to going under and COSU’s stated intentions when they rescued us. Also how recently in our very long club history that actually was.

They have invested in the management team, they have invested in Roots Hall, they are ramping up the commercial side. To me, however frustrating the football is, it’s a fascinating journey much more worthy than a Sunderland til I die Netflix (though that was fantastic), the Hollywood Wrexham media love fest or the Premier League obscene money, VAR and all that goes with it.

Relax, sit back and enjoy the rebuild journey. It’s a long one (as intimated by COSU).

I was with you til the last sentence. It’s impossible to relax, sit back and enjoy the football at the minute. It’s a real conundrum for COSU, how to keep the fans happy and attending while simultaneously doing everything else they need to do behind the scenes.

 

[blues exile]

I was with you til the last sentence. It’s impossible to relax, sit back and enjoy the football at the minute. It’s a real conundrum for COSU, how to keep the fans happy and attending while simultaneously doing everything else they need to do behind the scenes.

Priority must be the football. Sort that out by bringing in a progressive coaching team instead of a blinkered, inflexible regime, the rest will follow without spending a fortune on new signings.

 

[Barry.C]

I struggle to understand why we dont use the loan market more effectively and regularly

Its something we need to consider and break out on. Why are we so against it ? Is it a cultural thing?

Its used so regularly in this league to help success especially when short of cash or otherwise. It strongly helped Sutton

Gateshead, York and Barnet packed their sides with loanees, often on longer term deals In fact an average of NINE each alongside close to an average of 12 free transfers each coming in

So its not a transfer fee with these 57 players joining these sides this year, but it is a wage issue I accept

Nevertheless it is possible to negotiate shared costs on occassion with loan deals

 

[Barry.C]

Also just a quick question how did these clubs identify and recruit 27 loanees in a relatively short space of time?

 

[BoyWonder2]

I struggle to understand why we dont use the loan market more effectively and regularly

Its something we need to consider and break out on. Why are we so against it ? Is it a cultural thing?

Its used so regularly in this league to help success especially when short of cash or otherwise. It strongly helped Sutton

Gateshead, York and Barnet packed their sides with loanees, often on longer term deals In fact an average of NINE each alongside close to an average of 12 free transfers each coming in

So its not a transfer fee with these 57 players joining these sides this year, but it is a wage issue I accept

Nevertheless it is possible to negotiate shared costs on occassion with loan deals

Hasn’t the last week shown how the loan market doesn’t help?

In the space of 2/3 days, we lost 3 loan players who were all called back. Granted, only one was a regular starter, however if they were 3 starters and all three played as big a part as Bim, we’d be up a certain creak with no paddle, with nothing to compensate us.

 

[Microbe]

When considering our position both on and off the field we must make sure that we constantly get the maximum bang for our buck for the club.

This may mean repriortising our limited funds temporarily away from infrastructure to the playing and management staff to ensure that we don't hack off too many of our paying customers who have the ability to vote with their season ticket money and not buy/renew for 2025/26.

After all there is little point in spending limited funds on infrastructure if the fans don't attend and spend.

I feel for COSU but think that they need to concentrate on the product (ie the football) or risk loosing revenue if it remains as frustrating as it has become recently which makes it even more difficult to progress.

After all we have become used to the stadium and it's challenges and I would rather have better football than anything else in the short term.

 

[jackj13]

The biggest problem to me seems that people are losing sight of two things: How close we were to going under and COSU’s stated intentions when they rescued us. Also how recently in our very long club history that actually was.

They have invested in the management team, they have invested in Roots Hall, they are ramping up the commercial side. To me, however frustrating the football is, it’s a fascinating journey much more worthy than a Sunderland til I die Netflix (though that was fantastic), the Hollywood Wrexham media love fest or the Premier League obscene money, VAR and all that goes with it.

Relax, sit back and enjoy the rebuild journey. It’s a long one (as intimated by COSU).

I do agree with this. But I do feel COSU's sustainability plan is a bit of a catch 22 in some regards.

Unless we want to be a mid table national league team from now on we're never going to become sustainable in this league. I may have got this wrong but I think even Justin has said this at some point.

Nobody wants us to overspend and get into trouble again. But at some point a decision needs to be made regarding in investment in the squad and getting out of this division.

 

[Barry.C]

Hasn’t the last week shown how the loan market doesn’t help?

In the space of 2/3 days, we lost 3 loan players who were all called back. Granted, only one was a regular starter, however if they were 3 starters and all three played as big a part as Bim, we’d be up a certain creak with no paddle, with nothing to compensate us.

I got a feeling Gateshead, York Barnet and others previously promoted might not agree with you there?

Somehow quite a few of their large number of loans were not called back. Naturally some were.
Our loans seem to be short term goalies for a start I also liked Moncur who ended up in the stands, not sure he benefitted from Kevs style. Pepple was a great Loanee. . The leading clubs manage to find quite a few Pepples or his equivalent in other positions, maybe 5 0r 6 in a short space of time

We have also managed Hillsom, Jeacock and Harness , and Golding initially for a month as part of our efforts


Of course the loanee system has some drawbacks but our approach for some years has been largely to limit our engagement with the opportunities provided I dont think Ron was a fan and the impression is given that neither is Kev

If you had an average of 9 although even to me that seems excessive, do you think they would all be called back? Do you think your chances of finding and retaining some good ones would be in your favour?

The thread was about how to compete to win promotion, given budget restraints , the top sides strategies clearly include doing it via taking on board huge chunk of what seem to be pretty decent loanees ( and a ton of free transfers )

I will repeat 27 loanees between them, just 3 clubs all in the hunt at the top

 

[Napster]

We could do what Ineos are doing at Man United.

Man United legends next to feel force of brutal INEOS as cost cutting continues

Manchester United have told club ambassadors, including legendary captain Bryan Robson they will have their salaries slashed, talkSPORT understands. As well as Robson, 1999 treble winning legends D…

talksport.com

 

[Barry.C]

5 more, not costing much?​

21 January​

Gateshead have signed MK Dons defender Callum Tripp on loan until the end of the season.
The 18-year-old had made seven appearances in all competitions for the League Two side this campaign
Maidenhead have extended the loan of Hartlepool defender Emmanuel Onariase until the end of the season.
The 28-year-old joined the Magpies in December and has made four appearances.

20 January​

Oldham Athletic have signed midfielder Tom Pett on loan from Cheltenham Town until the end of the season.
The 34-year-old has been with the Robins since November 2023 and has played 27 games this campaign in League Two.

18 January​

Ebbsfleet United have signed 22-year-old left back Alex Lankshear on loan from Blackpool until the end of the season.
They have also brought in Ipswich Town midfielder Ryan Carr, 20, who spent the first half of the season on loan at Gateshead.

 

[stewart]

over the years we have had some very good loanees ,yes we have had a few that were not so good ,but lets be honest we remember the good ones , to name just a few , Egan, abssombalonga, Neal , Brunt, Piggott,and many others im sure you could name, Its not a market we should ignore . another was that Australian goalkeeper. We not a rich club ,but we are a club thats struggling and should be looking into the loanee market . Im not saying we should accept any loanee offered us but ones that have shown ability whilst on loan or at their club .

 

[Holy Joe]

What are the limits on loan players? Is there a limit on number of loans per season and how many are named in a match day squad?

 

[Shrimper]

I think you can have a max of 6 long term ones? Not 100% on that though

 

[Barry.C]

I think you can have a max of 6 long term ones? Not 100% on that though

Is that all? LOL

 

[Holy Joe]

I think you can have a max of 6 long term ones? Not 100% on that though

At any one time or over course of the season? Or in the match day squad

 

[Napster]

At any one time or over course of the season? Or in the match day squad

https://s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/files.pitchero.com/leagues/15004_1723212435.pdf

Long Term Loan Transfers – Clubs may have up to a maximum of six (6) Long Term Loan Transfers of any age during a Playing Season. Clubs playing in Competitions at Steps 1 to 6 of the National League System may register players on a Long-Term Loan from other clubs playing in Competitions at Steps 1 to 6 of the National League System. Only Clubs playing in Competitions at Steps 1 to 4 of the National League System may register players on a Long-Term Loan from clubs in the Premier League or EFL.A Player on Long Term Loan may be recalled on any date from the beginning of the Loan until the agreed summer transfer window deadline, provided that the initial 28 days have elapsed, except in the case of a goalkeeper, and within the agreed winter transfer window, ), except for a goalkeeper or where the Player is to be transferred permanently by the Club (or club) holding his registered contract in each case, subject to the agreement of the loaning Club, the borrowing Club and the Player, which may be preagreed in a recall clause in the original Loan agreement. To extend the period of any long term loan transfer a further Competition Temporary Transfer Form (for internal Temporary Transfers) or FA form H3 (for Temporary Transfers involving two competitions) must be completed and copies retained as directed above.The Competition shall not approve more than two (2) Long Term Loan transfers to or from any one club, including Premier League and EFL clubs, at any one time (subject to the overall limit of four (4) Players joining a Club from another club in any Playing Season as set out at Rule 6.6.1).

 

[Holy Joe]

https://s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/files.pitchero.com/leagues/15004_1723212435.pdf

Long Term Loan Transfers – Clubs may have up to a maximum of six (6) Long Term Loan Transfers of any age during a Playing Season. Clubs playing in Competitions at Steps 1 to 6 of the National League System may register players on a Long-Term Loan from other clubs playing in Competitions at Steps 1 to 6 of the National League System. Only Clubs playing in Competitions at Steps 1 to 4 of the National League System may register players on a Long-Term Loan from clubs in the Premier League or EFL.A Player on Long Term Loan may be recalled on any date from the beginning of the Loan until the agreed summer transfer window deadline, provided that the initial 28 days have elapsed, except in the case of a goalkeeper, and within the agreed winter transfer window, ), except for a goalkeeper or where the Player is to be transferred permanently by the Club (or club) holding his registered contract in each case, subject to the agreement of the loaning Club, the borrowing Club and the Player, which may be preagreed in a recall clause in the original Loan agreement. To extend the period of any long term loan transfer a further Competition Temporary Transfer Form (for internal Temporary Transfers) or FA form H3 (for Temporary Transfers involving two competitions) must be completed and copies retained as directed above.The Competition shall not approve more than two (2) Long Term Loan transfers to or from any one club, including Premier League and EFL clubs, at any one time (subject to the overall limit of four (4) Players joining a Club from another club in any Playing Season as set out at Rule 6.6.1).

I'm reading that as max 6 long term loans in a season - is that right? Interesting - seemed from Barry that many clubs had far more than 6 loanees?

 

[Barry.C]

12 are permitted for short term loans from between a minimum of 28 days or Max to season end Rule 647 and 6 long term loans are permitted

2 permitted to or from any one club at any time

In addition Youth loans can also be allowed at any time providing they are second or third year scholars or Co tract players aged 20 or below

Plenty of scope !

 

[Napster]

I'm reading that as max 6 long term loans in a season - is that right? Interesting - seemed from Barry that many clubs had far more than 6 loanees?

Short Term Loan Transfers – A Club can have up to a maximum of twelve (12) Short Term Loans during a Playing Season. The minimum period of a Short Term Loan transfer must be twenty- eight (28) days with a maximum period to the end of the Playing Season. Clubs playing in Competitions at Steps 1 to 4 of the National League System may register players on a Short- Term Loan from clubs in the EFL.The Competition shall not approve more than two (2) Short Term Loan transfers to or from any one club, including EFL Clubs, at any one time (subject to the overall limit of four (4) Players joining a Club from another club in any Playing Season as set out at Rule 6.6.1)