How do we compete with top budgets and how can we get there?

[Tommy2holes]

It's obvious that we can't compete with other clubs budgets, particularly those with rich benefactors ie FGR, Barnet, York etc.

So how do we as a club become more attractive and increase the coffers for Cosu.

Season card sales and merchandise. Tbh this season is probably about as good as it will get for the national league in terms of sales and merchandise, although if we were top of the league income would be higher.

Player sales. Unless we get super lucky with a star talent it's highly unlikely that we will see any significant money to make a difference.

Sponsorship. The club have maximised sponsorship this season already I can't see much more wriggle room unless we gain promotion.

For me the biggest is match day spending and non matchday spending.

I really hope that the fan zone can be realised. That will make a nice difference to the coffers, especially if it resembles the huge beer tent at Wycombe.

I see the old golden lion is now up for sale or rent. Could be a good acquisition for the club as an entertainment venue for matchdays and non matchdays.

Can a new outdoor market come back to roots hall again. Maybe 50 stalls twice a week at £25 a stall. Not much but it all helps.

Renovation of the stadium is a huge part of what is to come but how long realistically are we looking at. Maybe 3 to 5 years. It will bear fruit eventually but not for a while. I'd hope that the west stand gets a much needed overhaul to increase efficiency and options.

We have the new training pitches etc. Can something be done with that to be available for hire?

Is it possible to have concerts held at roots Hall in the off season? Probably not with the local housing but that could be quite lucrative.

Invite further financial input ie other consortium members to boost wealth. That could be a blessing and a curse. Too many cooks and all that but may create more finances.

Either way. Its becoming apparent that cash flow and increasing revenue will not be easy, especially against rich owners who see a club as a play thing.

 

[onceknownasrab]

Spot on T2H. I'm afraid to be sustainable we need a lot more revenue streams and I just do not believe it is possible at RH. Even, as you cite, the residential restrictions curtail so many possibilities. The ground is poorly situated and the investment needed is vast. Even if the consortium are happy to dig deep and write off their investment, I doubt the club will generate enough funds to survive without a constant transfusion of cash.

Expectation is probably key. We need deep pockets to get us promoted and looking to go higher. If we stay at the current level there will not be enough interest in the club to balance the books. Either way I feel we are on a slippery slope. It's still my belief RH will eventually be a housing estate, it's just a matter of whether we get a more practical stadium in its place or we become Oblivion FC in heaven.

 

[Tommy2holes]

I Spot on T2H. I'm afraid to be sustainable we need a lot more revenue streams and I just do not believe it is possible at RH. Even, as you cite, the residential restrictions curtail so many possibilities. The ground is poorly situated and the investment needed is vast. Even if the consortium are happy to dig deep and write off their investment, I doubt the club will generate enough funds to survive without a constant transfusion of cash.

Expectation is probably key. We need deep pockets to get us promoted and looking to go higher. If we stay at the current level there will not be enough interest in the club to balance the books. Either way I feel we are on a slippery slope. It's still my belief RH will eventually be a housing estate, it's just a matter of whether we get a more practical stadium in its place or we become Oblivion FC in heaven.

It's a really big problem.

Tbh I don't necessarily think roots Hall is located poorly ie its near town and transport links.

The issue is how bad a shape its in.

Realistically you could build a stadium similar to Rotherhams (great little stadium) in its place with so much more options for corporate and non matchday.

The east stand is a death trap and would cost 5+ million to renovate. The north probably 2+ million. The south is a complete no go and the west is limited but could be renovated to be far better, potentially with an element of corporate with imagination. Again it would cost maybe 1-3 million.

In short, to completely update roots Hall to a modern stadium with far better facilities will cost 10 million.

At what point would a new rebuild make more sense.

I always thought that the space would be too small but Brentfords stadium 17.5k looks to have been built in far more tricky circumstances ie smaller footprint.

 

[leeblue]

Sell on fees
Selling players we have developed.
Maximise income streams

 

[Roger The Alien]

Or to play entertaining football on smaller budgets like Gateshead?!

 

[BoyWonder2]

Ultimately, although it’s what we all wanted, staying at Roots Hall is probably the wrong decision in terms of maximising what we can bring in on non-match days.

With FF or anywhere else, COSU could design how they like it, rather than trying to fit stuff into the existing space.

Having watched the Macclesfield documentary years back, Savage (although a complete ****) has done a fantastic job off the pitch. They have a commercial gym and a bar/restaurant which is open outside of match days, something we should look to have.

The ability to host youth international matches, concerts, functions, weddings, hiring out desks for those that can do remote working etc.

On the field, a cup run would be huge too.

 

[leeblue]

Sell on fees
Selling players we have developed.
Maximise income streams
COSU increase budget.

 

[Liam AAS]

The way to be more attractive to players is large, passionate crowds and paying all our suppliers & staff on time. That means agents too.

We were regularly at the top of the pile for paying agents fees because players were taking such a risk with their own income in signing for us.

 

[BriggBlue]

Just to put some things into perspective here, this season will probably be our most expensive off the pitch.

So many debts have to be serviced and there were some one off costs which would normally form part of the capex for ongoing seasons.

There will need to be some investment by Cosu though, otherwise we will be stuck down here for many seasons, I can see this being a point of friction within the consortium as there may be different expectations of how much investment is required to get promoted.

 

[Shrimper]

Ultimately, although it’s what we all wanted, staying at Roots Hall is probably the wrong decision in terms of maximising what we can bring in on non-match days.

With FF or anywhere else, COSU could design how they like it, rather than trying to fit stuff into the existing space.

Having watched the Macclesfield documentary years back, Savage (although a complete ****) has done a fantastic job off the pitch. They have a commercial gym and a bar/restaurant which is open outside of match days, something we should look to have.

The ability to host youth international matches, concerts, functions, weddings, hiring out desks for those that can do remote working etc.

On the field, a cup run would be huge too.

They really need to see what is possible with the ground because I don't think just doing the East Stand will be enough

 

[Firestorm]

The accounts to 31/7/23 show

income to 31/7/23 £2.9M
Cost of sales 3.6M (of which 2.9 is wages etc)
Admin expenses 1.78M
Interest payments 291K

Total loss 2.75M

creditors 25M Of which 18.7M was Group undertaking so can be discounted , leaving 6.5K of Creditors

So Assuming the loss to 31/7/24 was similar to 22/23 , with no RM funding , we are looking at a debt of 9M which cosu have had to service whilst trying to increase income , improve facilities and reduce the annual operating loss by 2.75M

I guess that the rent on B&L and RH (500K) can be taken our of the cost of sales
Possibly the management fee 200K out of Admin expenses

But the loss of COE income of 250K will reduce the income

That give an assumption of Income c 2.65M
outgoings 4.7M

Still a loss of 2M

So Cosu will have this season 24/25 a potential loss of 2M having already spent maybe 9M on debts, plus the cost of improvements to RH .
Not all improvements to RH will have been covered by sponsorship (as , blues Lounge , scoreboard etc have been ) either .

Advertising , sponsorship income , has probably increased this season (236K 22/23) say 50% 120K
Interest comes off as debts have been cleared 291K

and further savings on Admin expenses of 250k made somewhere along the line

That still means the club has lost £1.4M this season and I am sure that's optimistic , though we wont know until May 2026
So Cosu will have put in 9M to cover pre takeover debts + 1.5M to keep the club running in their first 12 months .

Now we now they are not minted , and some of Rons Rootshall payment may well have been already used on the ground so the investors may wish to circulate that back into the club , when it eventually arrives rather than take it back as a repayment of previous money spent.

But even if they manage to up the income by 50% (Food , outside of matchday activities , Fanzone, Higher attendances etc) that will increase the income to 3.9M , which is highly fanciful TBH and still not enough to Cosu having to put money in to keep us going.

How much do we expect Cosu to put in over , say, the first three years (before the RH money comes over from the FF development from Ron ) ?

15M ? would possibly allow for 1M to go to the playing side for next season ?

The figures above are based on 23/24 (accounts due in the next few months) showing a loss under Rons last season of similar to the previous one and some very optimist guesses for this season and next, and they still dont look too good for the football unless COSU have deep pockets and an inclination to spend on the playing .
None of the above takes into account the added expense of severance pay should we choose to change the management team (or any compensation should they be replaced with anybody who is actually at another club)

 

[Holy Joe]

Just to put some things into perspective here, this season will probably be our most expensive off the pitch.

So many debts have to be serviced and there were some one off costs which would normally form part of the capex for ongoing seasons.

There will need to be some investment by Cosu though, otherwise we will be stuck down here for many seasons, I can see this being a point of friction within the consortium as there may be different expectations of how much investment is required to get promoted.

Absolutely - i hope as the off pitch expenses/debts are brought under control it allows greater on pitch spending.

 

[IloveShrimp]

Sorry to say that although the consortium took over with all good intentions I think they have bitten off more than can chew.

I feel for them tbh.

 

[Holy Joe]

Sorry to say that although the consortium took over with all good intentions I think they have bitten off more than can chew.

I feel for them tbh.

I feel for them - but only because they're not being given time, by some, to sort things out.

 

[The Original Tribal Chief]

It's possible to get promoted without spending the most money. You need shrewd transfer dealings, innovative and motivational management and a bit of luck. We reached the second tier twice this way. Our transfer business, tactics and man management have been severely lacking, and you make your own luck. Change what you can.

 

[leeblue]

Sorry to say that although the consortium took over with all good intentions I think they have bitten off more than can chew.

I feel for them tbh.

How so.
They have a solid plan for longevity of the football club.
Examples of this being too much for them?
So far they've done wonders in just six months, particularly off the pitch. Spent shed loads on facilities such as the new training ground, improvements at RH etc as well as sorting a shed load of historical debt.
If we had won a few more football matches no one would be griping at all.

 

[WestyReturns]

Build a datacenter under the pitch. Loads of money in that at the mo and long term too.

 

[flangejackrabbit]

Build a datacenter under the pitch. Loads of money in that at the mo and long term too.

Would mean we don't get any more frozen pitches either tho the cooling might be an issue.

 

[PIERS]

Would mean we don't get any more frozen pitches either tho the cooling might be an issue.

Use the extra heat to grow vast quantities of weed.

 

[* ORM *]

How so.
They have a solid plan for longevity of the football club.
Examples of this being too much for them?
So far they've done wonders in just six months, particularly off the pitch. Spent shed loads on facilities such as the new training ground, improvements at RH etc as well as sorting a shed load of historical debt.
If we had won a few more football matches no one would be griping at all.

The biggest problem to me seems that people are losing sight of two things: How close we were to going under and COSU’s stated intentions when they rescued us. Also how recently in our very long club history that actually was.

They have invested in the management team, they have invested in Roots Hall, they are ramping up the commercial side. To me, however frustrating the football is, it’s a fascinating journey much more worthy than a Sunderland til I die Netflix (though that was fantastic), the Hollywood Wrexham media love fest or the Premier League obscene money, VAR and all that goes with it.

Relax, sit back and enjoy the rebuild journey. It’s a long one (as intimated by COSU).