Question HMRC Winding Up Order

[GBJ]

otherwise how could the club have survived with its debt and such few assets?

What's been more concerning, though, has been the financial mismanagement. How could the club be losing such vast sums of money? An annual loss of £2m is huge by any club's standards at this level and is unsustainable.

but with our recent successes on the pitch and small squad where on earth has that sort of money been leaking??

Were League One players on Championship wages

where else have such big losses have been incurred?

Some decent points, that have constantly been overlooked or brushed aside without any real answer from within the club.

Afterall, if you go through the whole thing, some some things just do not add up.

Look at it like this - it's been asked many-a-time, where has the Eastwood/Bailey/JCR/Cup games/TV/etc money gone? To which people have swiftly replied... "towards the running of the club". Ok.

In the last 5 years our attendence/fan base has doubled. Therefore the money coming in, is more. The club can take anything from £100k to £200k on matchdays. Where has THAT money gone? Surely not to the running of the club aswell?

Either way, we now find ourselves in massive debt, and possibly on the brink of closure and we're still no clearer on where the money has gone?

 

[Reg Martin]

Some decent points, that have constantly been overlooked or brushed aside without any real answer from within the club.

Afterall, if you go through the whole thing, some some things just do not add up.

Look at it like this - it's been asked many-a-time, where has the Eastwood/Bailey/JCR/Cup games/TV/etc money gone? To which people have swiftly replied... "towards the running of the club". Ok.

In the last 5 years our attendence/fan base has doubled. Therefore the money coming in, is more. The club can take anything from £100k to £200k on matchdays. Where has THAT money gone? Surely not to the running of the club aswell?

Either way, we now find ourselves in massive debt, and possibly on the brink of closure and we're still no clearer on where the money has gone?

The answer to 'where has the money has gone?' is probably 'towards the running of the club' - the biggest part of which is players wages - that the running of the club has cost far more than we can afford may be why we are where we are.
I think the truth about our financial difficulties is far more mundane than some of the more wilder theories of Ron Martin as evil genius.
The club was up to its neck in debt when he took it over, he kept it afloat for a number of years and probably let wages spiral to championship levels when we got promoted. Then the combination of cost of the planning enquiry, the impact of a major recession and the HMRC taking a tougher line means all our financial chickens are coming home to roost.

 

[Mick]

The answer to 'where has the money has gone?' is probably 'towards the running of the club' - the biggest part of which is players wages - that the running of the club has cost far more than we can afford may be why we are where we are.
I think the truth about our financial difficulties is far more mundane than some of the more wilder theories of Ron Martin as evil genius.
The club was up to its neck in debt when he took it over, he kept it afloat for a number of years and probably let wages spiral to championship levels when we got promoted. Then the combination of cost of the planning enquiry, the impact of a major recession and the HMRC taking a tougher line means all our financial chickens are coming home to roost.

I thought they were taking a less tough line ?

 

[Reg Martin]

I thought they were taking a less tough line ?

I was basing that on posts on here from people who come across the HMRC in their line of work and who have said they seem to be taking a more tougher line recently.

 

[GBJ]

The answer to 'where has the money has gone?' is probably 'towards the running of the club' - the biggest part of which is players wages - that the running of the club has cost far more than we can afford may be why we are where we are.
I think the truth about our financial difficulties is far more mundane than some of the more wilder theories of Ron Martin as evil genius.
The club was up to its neck in debt when he took it over, he kept it afloat for a number of years and probably let wages spiral to championship levels when we got promoted. Then the combination of cost of the planning enquiry, the impact of a major recession and the HMRC taking a tougher line means all our financial chickens are coming home to roost.

Maybe so, but if the wages are the case, then why do we owe the taxman so much? Were the payments put off?

I totally agree that the wages have probably been ridiculously high. I've been saying for ages that certain players are on nearly £4k per week. Maybe more.

 

[Reg Martin]

Maybe so, but if the wages are the case, then why do we owe the taxman so much? Were the payments put off?

I totally agree that the wages have probably been ridiculously high. I've been saying for ages that certain players are on nearly £4k per week. Maybe more.

I have always assumed that the tax owed is not tax on profits but deductions from employee wages eg PAYE, National Insurance.

 

[GBJ]

I have always assumed that the tax owed is not tax on profits but deductions from employee wages eg PAYE, National Insurance.

So how long would we have had to withold payment for it to reach a debt of £600k? Would assume it was a fair few months. If that's the case, WHY couldn't we pay it?

We've heard rumours of players/staff not being payed aswell. why was that? Its obvious the club is making money, as i said we can make anyhting from £100k-£200k on a matchday.

Wages not being payed, Taxman not being payed, No new signings - the money MUST be going somewhere.

 

[steveo]

So how long would we have had to withold payment for it to reach a debt of £600k? Would assume it was a fair few months. If that's the case, WHY couldn't we pay it?

According to my info the CCJ we have against us is for 72209

17/06/2009 NORTHAMPTON £72,209 Judgement 9NN02352

Is this separate to the Tax man's claim?

 

[GBJ]

According to my info the CCJ we have against us is for 72209



Is this separate to the Tax man's claim?

Dunno? Thought that was what the HRMC thing was all about? not paying the taxman?

 

[Firestorm]

The Tax bill for year to 31/7/2007 account was 1.3M
for 31/7/2008 it was 888,459

Year to 30/7/08 The club lost 2.5M (previous year profit 1.3M) , its cost of sales expenditure was the same as the previous year, but Income was down a whopping 3M (with the difference in Transfer fees obtained for players sold only accounting for 870K.

Administrative expenses was up 500k (there is no breakdown for this P&L item in the accounts) and stood at 2M.

@31/7/03
Income 3.1M
Wages 1.5M
Other Expenses 770k
Administrative expenses 230K

@31/7/08
Income 5.35M (incl 630K Transfer fees)
Wages 3.4M
Other expenses 2.4M (Incl 566k transfer fees paid)
Administrative expenses 2M


So any increase in our income over the past 5 years has been matched by increases in our wage bill (wages in 2006 were 3.7m) and the mysterious balance sheet item of Administrative expenses has risen almost 10 fold in 5 years

 

[blue shrimp]

The Tax bill for year to 31/7/2007 account was 1.3M
for 31/7/2008 it was 888,459

Year to 30/7/08 The club lost 2.5M (previous year profit 1.3M) , its cost of sales expenditure was the same as the previous year, but Income was down a whopping 3M (with the difference in Transfer fees obtained for players sold only accounting for 870K.

Administrative expenses was up 500k (there is no breakdown for this P&L item in the accounts) and stood at 2M.

@31/7/03
Income 3.1M
Wages 1.5M
Other Expenses 770k
Administrative expenses 230K

@31/7/08
Income 5.35M (incl 630K Transfer fees)
Wages 3.4M
Other expenses 2.4M (Incl 566k transfer fees paid)
Administrative expenses 2M


So any increase in our income over the past 5 years has been matched by increases in our wage bill (wages in 2006 were 3.7m) and the mysterious balance sheet item of Administrative expenses has risen almost 10 fold in 5 years

Administrrative expenditure is a no brainer...Vast sums of money appear to have vanished in a black hole being a money pit...Strange way to conduct a company.

 

[steveo]

Administrrative expenditure is a no brainer...Vast sums of money appear to have vanished in a black hole being a money pit...Strange way to conduct a company.

But when you are a Director of 13 Companies, as Ron is, its a good way of switching money around.

 

[blue shrimp]

But when you are a Director of 13 Companies, as Ron is, its a good way of switching money around.

Of course it is very clever yet does not help the football club much.

 

[weststander]

Administrrative expenditure is a no brainer...Vast sums of money appear to have vanished in a black hole being a money pit...Strange way to conduct a company.

Be careful of what you imply, it could get either yourself or this site into trouble.