Question HMRC Winding Up Order

[mfurok]

Gained a year have you?

Counting was never his strong point.

 

[Reg Martin]

liquidation or administration - who decides?

Hoping someone on here can answer this ...
Assuming we don't pay the tax bill before we're due back in court, is it down to the judge to decide whether we go into administration or liquidation or do HMRC have a say?
(I think I'm right in saying that if we go into administration there is still hope, but if it's liquidation that's it.)

 

[Reg Martin]

link to an interesting website on football club finances
didn't realise Rochdale also subject of HMRC winding-up order

http://footballmanagement.wordpress.com/

 

[GodblessArthurRowley]

Silence from Uncle Ron may be golden it may also mean we are up **** creek without a paddle, I'm with uncle Ron until I see next seasons fixtures and we are playing Clapton away in the Essex senior league.Its touch and go I think.

 

[Pubey]

I'm with uncle Ron until I see next seasons fixtures and we are playing Clapton away in the Essex senior league.Its touch and go I think.

If that ever happened I think I'd cry tears from heaven

 

[shrimpereeee]

Hoping someone on here can answer this ...
Assuming we don't pay the tax bill before we're due back in court, is it down to the judge to decide whether we go into administration or liquidation or do HMRC have a say?
(I think I'm right in saying that if we go into administration there is still hope, but if it's liquidation that's it.)

Unless there is an application by a director or creditor for an administration order which is heard before the return date for the hearing of the winding up petition the court will liquidate the company in the event that the tax is due and an agreement can't be reached with the Revenue.

If there is an application for an administration order this will only succeed in the event that administration will achieve a better outcome for the company and creditors than a winding up. Such an application needs to be made with the support of an insolvency practitioner and if successful creates a moratorium which protects it from creditors whilst it continues to trade...and sold.

 

[GodblessArthurRowley]

Just thinking that wouldn't it be ironic if the club went tits up under Uncle Ron, after he has led through the wilderness,sorting out the financial mess, to the edge of a new stadium, into the championship,cup finals,promotions etc.
When we have survived the Vic years, the Anton Johnson years, and the years when we had 1500 turn up for games.

 

[grassroots]

Just thinking that wouldn't it be ironic if the club went tits up under Uncle Ron, after he has led through the wilderness,sorting out the financial mess, to the edge of a new stadium, into the championship,cup finals,promotions etc.
When we have survived the Vic years, the Anton Johnson years, and the years when we had 1500 turn up for games.

I'm afraid I wont believe RM has sorted out 'the financial mess' until (a) in 5 years time, we are happily ensconced in FF with a 'steady stream' of new revenues and NO debts or (b) still playing at Roots Hall in 5 years time - again with no debts!

I just get the feeling we are living off borrowed money on borrowed time. I just hope I am wrong!

 

[mattytheshrimper]

some one made a good point in another thread. things are better than ever for us really, we are a well established league 1 club. With a great average attendence of approx 8k and no players being signed in god knows how long so how are things so bad???

you can blame the wages (when they are paid) but our squad is paper thin and literally all decent championship players have all gone so sorry that excuse has to be passed for me that we are playing championship players.

the high profile games against chelsea last year didn't do anything for us?

i do grow bored of the excuses made from the board and its just so worrying that things don't look like getting better.

its a miracle that tilly has put up with it even more amazing is that we are mid table. i've said it before that if we finish in the top 10 this year i think it would be one of tilly's biggest achievments.

i think rm is a genuis to pull the wool over everyones eyes and carry on to get on with it.

i suppose you could say i have by no way rm's biggest fan i guess he lost any respect i had for him when are 4 home games this season my season ticket still wasn't working so whilst on my AGAIN to the ticket office i saw rm and gave him a piece of my mind but all he did was look and me and carry on driving through the car park.

I'm sure if i asked about the stadium he would have had all the time in the world!

i do think ron will be found out eventually. although one thing is deffinate. he will be out there on the pitch when we draw man u, liverpool etc waving his blue and white scarfs even though half the stadium would be filled with day trippers. why not do that against bristol rovers, oldham etc when attendances will not be so high and there will be loyal supporters there.

rant over.

 

[Pubey]

some one made a good point in another thread. things are better than ever for us really, we are a well established league 1 club. With a great average attendence of approx 8k and no players being signed in god knows how long so how are things so bad???

you can blame the wages (when they are paid) but our squad is paper thin and literally all decent championship players have all gone so sorry that excuse has to be passed for me that we are playing championship players.

the high profile games against chelsea last year didn't do anything for us?

i do grow bored of the excuses made from the board and its just so worrying that things don't look like getting better.

its a miracle that tilly has put up with it even more amazing is that we are mid table. i've said it before that if we finish in the top 10 this year i think it would be one of tilly's biggest achievments.

i think rm is a genuis to pull the wool over everyones eyes and carry on to get on with it.

i suppose you could say i have by no way rm's biggest fan i guess he lost any respect i had for him when are 4 home games this season my season ticket still wasn't working so whilst on my AGAIN to the ticket office i saw rm and gave him a piece of my mind but all he did was look and me and carry on driving through the car park.

I'm sure if i asked about the stadium he would have had all the time in the world!

i do think ron will be found out eventually. although one thing is deffinate. he will be out there on the pitch when we draw man u, liverpool etc waving his blue and white scarfs even though half the stadium would be filled with day trippers. why not do that against bristol rovers, oldham etc when attendances will not be so high and there will be loyal supporters there.

rant over.

I thought you only went to Roots Hall for a sing-song?

 

[EastStandBlue]

some one made a good point in another thread. things are better than ever for us really, we are a well established league 1 club. With a great average attendence of approx 8k and no players being signed in god knows how long so how are things so bad???

We'll ignore the fact that some players have been huge flops and cost us dearly... They've been discussed to death now.

Spiralling legal costs in getting the Stadium project of the ground. They're a necessary evil, but hugely expensive. I'm guessing we've spent in excess of £1m purely on legal costs since being granted initial Planning Permission... Money well spent should we have a shiny new stadium to sit in.

That big thing that seems to be making it difficult for any business to survive in. The Recession. Football is a business, don't confuse it with anything else, and as a business it will struggle like any other business... If anything, football clubs are more fragile because of their huge running costs in comparison.

Look around, the only clubs actually buying more than a few players are those with wealthy backers that are immune to any downturn.

 

[Mick]

I'm guessing we've spent in excess of £1m purely on legal costs since being granted initial Planning Permission... Money well spent should we have a shiny new stadium to sit in.

Could you give me some sort of idea on what we have spent £1m purely on legal costs since being granted planning permission. Sounds extraordinary to me.

 

[EastStandBlue]

Well, we hired a QC for the majority of the work who don't come cheap at all... Then we have the costs of contracts with the council, amended plans to house the Casino and Health Club, written contracts for each of the Retail Outlet's that have been leased... This is without the upcoming CPO's which will cost a great deal.

 

[united we stand]

Well, we hired a QC for the majority of the work who don't come cheap at all... Then we have the costs of contracts with the council, amended plans to house the Casino and Health Club, written contracts for each of the Retail Outlet's that have been leased... This is without the upcoming CPO's which will cost a great deal.

we are also paying all of the councils legal costs

 

[ElstreeBlue]

Could you give me some sort of idea on what we have spent £1m purely on legal costs since being granted planning permission. Sounds extraordinary to me.

and why has the club been paying for that cost since the club will be a mere tenant at the new complex? Surely the cost should have been paid for by the legal entity that will own the land?

 

[blue shrimp]

and why has the club been paying for that cost since the club will be a mere tenant at the new complex? Surely the cost should have been paid for by the legal entity that will own the land?

Southend United Football Club..........Equals cash cow.

 

[Benfleet Blue]

We'll ignore the fact that some players have been huge flops and cost us dearly... They've been discussed to death now.

Spiralling legal costs in getting the Stadium project of the ground. They're a necessary evil, but hugely expensive. I'm guessing we've spent in excess of £1m purely on legal costs since being granted initial Planning Permission... Money well spent should we have a shiny new stadium to sit in.

That big thing that seems to be making it difficult for any business to survive in. The Recession. Football is a business, don't confuse it with anything else, and as a business it will struggle like any other business... If anything, football clubs are more fragile because of their huge running costs in comparison.

Look around, the only clubs actually buying more than a few players are those with wealthy backers that are immune to any downturn.

But why would SUFC foot the legal bills when a) we don't have any funds or collateral or own the current stadium, nor even the training facility and b) the new stadium won't belong to SUFC, it will be RM's Company's.

 

[mattytheshrimper]

I thought you only went to Roots Hall for a sing-song?

singing part of the fun for me mate, from your previous comments i understand you aren't interested in it and thats fine however i believe its true what i had said and i just think theres so many people on here stupid enough to believe it. i would love to sit and there be happy happy happy all the time but its called being realistic. i don't go to the game and boo everyone all day long because they are doing what they can and as i have always said how tilly has done so well without buying any players is brilliant.

however so many people are fooled by ron by the sounds of it you to. if you've got a problem as you seem to have some out and say it.

 

[mattytheshrimper]

That big thing that seems to be making it difficult for any business to survive in. The Recession. Football is a business, don't confuse it with anything else, and as a business it will struggle like any other business... If anything, football clubs are more fragile because of their huge running costs in comparison.

Look around, the only clubs actually buying more than a few players are those with wealthy backers that are immune to any downturn.

completely agree with the recession buisness however the spending stopped before that and i have said previously i believe we have good support and gates are great so compared to 4 or 5 years ago when we were getting 5k or lower we should be better off.

legal costs for the stadium which have been going on for years and years yet have got us no where. i guess i havn't got a lot of faith in the stadium tbh however i do want us to get one as i feel we simply have to.

however rons the missing link for me spoken to him several times and just not convinced at all.

people will say im being negative i say its realistic. not sure what it will take for some people to be the same.

 

[Lancashire shrimper]

Hyde United (Blue Sq North) have been wound up by HMRC this afternoon after a final adjournment was denied (see link)

Together with Accrington Stanley also struggling (also subject to a Winding Up Order) it would appear that HMRC are getting tough with Football Clubs who can't pay their tax bills.

We are now a little over a month away from the High Court hearing which unless Uncle Ron gets his finger out will result in the end of SUFC.

All we hear is "It's not an issue and it will be paid...". Well that's what the board at Hyde (and to a lesser extent Accrington) have said and lets not forget Hyde are not the first club to be wound up by HMRC this year... :nope:

Hyde escaped the winding up order by paying off their tax bill which means that Neil Tolson still has a job :)

http://www.tamesideadvertiser.co.uk/sport/football/s/1158002_high_court_victory_for_hyde_united

Accy Stanley look like they've sorted themselves out too

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.u...tanley_near_end_to_winding_up_threat/?ref=rss

Blackburn and Burnley recently played benefit matches for them donating all the gate receipts. Bury and Rochdale have had collection buckets outside their grounds on match days in support. Along with their recent upturn in form they'll be able to pay off their tax bill too.

'Some say' things come in threes. It doubt it will happen to Southend either. I believe the club has invested so much into FF, and the value it will bring once complete that RM won't let a tax bill for half a million thwart progress into building the new stadium.