Pre-Match Thread HMRC v SUFC - FINAL hearing on 1st March. DISMISSED

[Cricko]

Im sorry but this is complete and utter nonsense, there will be no further adjournments, the hearing is listed as final and that is what it means, I listed the 4 possible out comes in post 306 I think it was, these were the 4 outcomes that were given by an expert insolvency lawyer, please stop giving people false hope where there is none

There are 4 possible outcomes from todays hearing

1. Monies Paid - Petition Dismissed
2. Agreement to pay made with HMRC - Petition Dismissed
3. Ron Starts Administration Process - Petition Dismissed
4. If 1/2 or 3 hasn't happened Southend United Football Club Plc will be wound up

 

[undercovershrimper]

There are 4 possible outcomes from todays hearing

1. Monies Paid - Petition Dismissed
2. Agreement to pay made with HMRC - Petition Dismissed
3. Ron Starts Administration Process - Petition Dismissed
4. If 1/2 or 3 hasn't happened Southend United Football Club Plc will be wound up

Thanks Cricko, and option 2 isn't an option as the petition was lodged after we broke the time to pay agreement we were in with HMRC, we are out of chances with them now

 

[euroshrimper]

I should also add that, if we haven't paid the bill by March 1st but present evidence that we can, say, in April and for some reason the judge ignores that and winds us up anyway, then it is appealable and it will be adjourned pending appeal.

Either way, don't be too concerned about March 1st.

If the 1st March is not an issue then why no reassurance from the hierarchy at SUFC to the fanbase........
The uncertainty is tearing SUFC apart at the moment and RM is playing a very dangerous game ! ! !

 

[Shrimper]

I should also add that, if we haven't paid the bill by March 1st but present evidence that we can, say, in April and for some reason the judge ignores that and winds us up anyway, then it is appealable and it will be adjourned pending appeal.

Either way, don't be too concerned about March 1st.

Until the judge turns around and says "Heard it all before"

Pay up or else

 

[fbm]

Well, I guess we'll just have to wait and see. If it's ok with everyone, I'll choose to stay optimistic and rely on the information I've been given and will just keep it to myself in future rather than "giving people false hope where there is none."

 

[in the know]

Not as far as I understand it. This is just about money and the personalities don't really come into it, or so I gather. It's not like a magistrates court.
A judge isn't going to wind up a company unless there is zero chance of the money being paid. Whilst there is a chance, there will be adjournments, but of course there has to be evidence presented. We had that last time with the letter of course. So, let's say the bridging loan fails to come in. Ron can (and probably will) then say "The project is moving on and the next release of finances is going to be next month (or whenever). The debt will be paid in full then."
The judge isn't then going to wind the company up as that will mean -
Loss of tax revenue
Loss of livelihoods for many people
Possible cancellation of development project in full or in part
Loss of important part of community
Possible disqualification of directors that will affect ALL companies not just the one being wound up

So it will be adjourned. And so on.
Until of course one time when there is no evidence and there is nothing left to develop or sell. But that isn't going to happen here because the project has started.

The colleague I was talking to is also a season ticket holder and isn't the slightest bit concerned that we are going to be wound up on March 1st and he has done hundreds of insolvency hearings (albeit not for a few years).

Now, running the club in the meantime and keeping everyone happy is another matter.

this sort of ties in with what I heard RM said to the players last week. obviously I wasn't there but it was along the lines of .....

not to worry, the money situation is all arranged....everything may not all be finalised by 1 March..... there's no need to worry because of constant contact and talking with hmrc. of

I stress I wasn't personally there but I keep hearing the receipt of funds is all sorted and I would think as long as this is demonstrable to hmrc, it will be fine. The home games will help things just about tick over, I assume, until the funds filter there way through the cloudy journey to sufc

 

[undercovershrimper]

Well, I guess we'll just have to wait and see. If it's ok with everyone, I'll choose to stay optimistic and rely on the information I've been given and will just keep it to myself in future rather than "giving people false hope where there is none."

You can keep whatever outlook you like but we need to deal in facts, the hearing on 1st March is the final one and there will be no more adjournments or kicking the can further down the road, the future of SUFC will be decided in that court room on that date no ifs or buts

 

[Stan33]

Well, I guess we'll just have to wait and see. If it's ok with everyone, I'll choose to stay optimistic and rely on the information I've been given and will just keep it to myself in future rather than "giving people false hope where there is none."

Please fbm ,we love u please stay !

 

[Blue43]

I spoke with a colleague earlier today who has a lot more experience of insolvency hearings and there is something he pointed out that made me feel a little more relaxed about the whole situation.

Re the "Final" hearing; As long as Ron can demonstrate that the money will be on it's way, it will be adjourned. It doesn't matter whether or not a judge has marked it "Final", They are all final until they are adjourned. If Ron can provide evidence that at some point the money will come through - and there has been a part completion on the training ground which will ultimately release funds - then even if the bridging loan is not in by March 1st, it will be adjourned. If the judge ignores that evidence and winds the company up, there will be an immediate appeal and then an adjournment pending that appeal. So all in all, it is unlikely that anything disastrous will happen on that day.

Further, Ron is not a stupid man. He will have a contingency plan. He will not allow the club to be wound up; he would put it into administration first and he isn't going to do that, I'm sure he will have a plan B. There will be plenty of people that will lend him money (contrary to popular belief) and their money won't be at risk as it can be secured on the land.

It has been said that his statement last week said nothing, but it did say we could look forward to a good second half of the season.

All this is a game to him I'm sure. I doubt he has the interests of the club at heart other than the fact that if we go under so does he. Similarly, if we actively try and force him out as well, we will collapse. It would be the ultimate "cutting your nose off to spite your face" tactic, only more drastic.

Whilst his handling of the day to day stuff is obviously of huge concern, I do think that not only will we still have a club on March 2nd, but it could mark the beginning of a new chapter and phase in our history, regardless of whether he stays in the long term or not.

(By the way, no I'm not Ron and no-one can claim their £5).

A new chapter and phase in our history? Christ, you couldn’t make it up with some of our fans honestly!

Ron is in so much debt that he would probably struggle to get credit for a library card right now, let alone a £5 million loan.

Do you really think if he does pull off the loan that the embargo’s will stop? Do you think staff will suddenly start to get paid? Do you think we won’t end up in court again?

All the bridging loan will do is let us carry on limping along with the same problems we’ve been facing for the past few years.

HMRC wanted us wound up at the last hearing, the judge said the next hearing is FINAL. If Ron hasn’t got the loan in place by then there will be no more chances. We have had too many chances already.Macclesfield were wound up for owing half a million pounds, a lot less than we owe. Bury were also wound up after repeated adjournments.

The only chance of a new chapter and future at the club is with new ownership! We just have to hope that Ron realises this in time and starts listen to offers to sell, otherwise we’re finished!

 

[Holy Joe]

Well, I guess we'll just have to wait and see. If it's ok with everyone, I'll choose to stay optimistic and rely on the information I've been given and will just keep it to myself in future rather than "giving people false hope where there is none."

Please keep sharing - alternative views are interesting.

 

[Holy Joe]

You can keep whatever outlook you like but we need to deal in facts, the hearing on 1st March is the final one and there will be no more adjournments or kicking the can further down the road, the future of SUFC will be decided in that court room on that date no ifs or buts

Have you got a link that defines a 'final hearing' - I have briefly searched but not found one.

And in your opinion no option of appealing the decision?

 

[danbowen]

Please keep sharing - alternative views are interesting.

Agreed. There are a few posters on here that clearly know their stuff and then a few that would happily watch the club burn and no longer just to see Ron gone ie the Phoenix club idea. I think the anger at times means people don’t think rationally when it’s needed.

 

[undercovershrimper]

Have you got a link that defines a 'final hearing' - I have briefly searched but not found one.

And in your opinion no option of appealing the decision?

Hi Matt, As I have said in my posts the options I laid out were given to me by an expert insolvency lawyer that I work with. We are literally in the last chance saloon now, I can ask re an appeal if we are wound up and report back

 

[Grayson]

A new chapter and phase in our history? Christ, you couldn’t make it up with some of our fans honestly!

Ron is in so much debt that he would probably struggle to get credit for a library card right now, let alone a £5 million loan.

Do you really think if he does pull off the loan that the embargo’s will stop? Do you think staff will suddenly start to get paid? Do you think we won’t end up in court again?

All the bridging loan will do is let us carry on limping along with the same problems we’ve been facing for the past few years.

HMRC wanted us wound up at the last hearing, the judge said the next hearing is FINAL. If Ron hasn’t got the loan in place by then there will be no more chances. We have had too many chances already.Macclesfield were wound up for owing half a million pounds, a lot less than we owe. Bury were also wound up after repeated adjournments.

The only chance of a new chapter and future at the club is with new ownership! We just have to hope that Ron realises this in time and starts listen to offers to sell, otherwise we’re finished!

We really need you repeating yourself on every thread to anyone who dares suggest an alternative opinion to yours.

 

[undercovershrimper]

View attachment 24517

I thought SJA were a charity and volunteered their services??

 

[Cricko]

We really need you repeating yourself on every thread to anyone who dares suggest an alternative opinion to yours.

That is the thing though isn't it. There are 2 camps. those that believe and those that don't, hence the huge split in the fanbase which brings about 2 very opposite views.

There will be this until we actually know what is going on and i feel it will only get worse as the clock ticks by.

One thing for sure though is that we all love the club and whatever camp people are in emotions are running very high.

 

[Shrimper]

Well, I guess we'll just have to wait and see. If it's ok with everyone, I'll choose to stay optimistic and rely on the information I've been given and will just keep it to myself in future rather than "giving people false hope where there is none."

What's the saying?

Fool me once, shame on you
Fool me twice, shame on me?

 

[Jack_23]

 

[Danshrimper]

You can keep whatever outlook you like but we need to deal in facts, the hearing on 1st March is the final one and there will be no more adjournments or kicking the can further down the road, the future of SUFC will be decided in that court room on that date no ifs or buts

I know this is a hypothetical and unlikely secnario. But if there was clear evidence that funds will arrive on March 2nd we would be wound up instead of there being another adjournment because March 1st was labelled ‘final’? I find that hard to believe.

 

[hlane17]

I know this is a hypothetical and unlikely secnario. But if there was clear evidence that funds will arrive on March 2nd we would be wound up instead of there being another adjournment because March 1st was labelled ‘final’? I find that hard to believe.

I think we're missing the entire point here. We shouldn't be dicing with the court and HMRC's patience in the first place...