Gareth Southgate, rewarding failure or providing security?

[Sandbach Shrimper]

I am torn on Southgate. I think he's done a lot of good things as manager when you consider the situation we were in when he took over. He's got the fans and media back on side, he's fostered a good culture and spirit in the team and the players clearly like him. And he's got closer to winning a major tournament than anyone else since 1966.

At the same time, I do feel that maybe he's taken the team as far as he can, that he's too conservative and slow to make changes to impact big games. You could argue we've had kind draws and been beaten by the first good team we've played against in each of his three tournament campaigns. I also think he's been a bit distracted by politics, like the whole knee-taking nonsense.

Maybe it's time for someone else to come in and take this brilliant generation forward to the next level. But then the question is who? There is a lack of English coaches at the highest level, and I generally believe the national team manager should come from the country. Anyway, we're stuck with him for now.

 

[Kat_r]

I really don't think Southgate is there as a traditional manager.

I think he is just the public face of a system that uses stats and analysis to pick the best team.

I feel appointing a big name club manager with an ego would be a big step backwards.

Interesting

 

[Dutch Branch]

There is still a lot yet to come from Southgate and his England team. When you look at his tournament results they are far better than the managers immediately before him. This current squad are now more than capable of wining the next Euros tournament, and I expect them to be up there again.

Up there yes but not winning it. GS has built a superb team but that young team now needs someone to manage it to a new level and actually win something.

 

[ozzie]

I am torn on Southgate. I think he's done a lot of good things as manager when you consider the situation we were in when he took over. He's got the fans and media back on side, he's fostered a good culture and spirit in the team and the players clearly like him. And he's got closer to winning a major tournament than anyone else since 1966.

At the same time, I do feel that maybe he's taken the team as far as he can, that he's too conservative and slow to make changes to impact big games. You could argue we've had kind draws and been beaten by the first good team we've played against in each of his three tournament campaigns. I also think he's been a bit distracted by politics, like the whole knee-taking nonsense.

Maybe it's time for someone else to come in and take this brilliant generation forward to the next level. But then the question is who? There is a lack of English coaches at the highest level, and I generally believe the national team manager should come from the country. Anyway, we're stuck with him for now.

Do you mean like the women`s team ???
Had that English woman,sorry forgot her name..then Neville...were both s??? But then took on a known/proven FOREIGN trainer ....and became champions of Europe...
YEP stay English...we at least know how it will end

 

[jackj13]

I don’t think he has it in him to get us to the next level of winning. Let’s be realistic he wouldn’t get any of the top jobs in the prem.

Obviously they’re better teams but both Argentina and France looked so much more expansive and attacking than us.

And although they were poor there was definite slight improvement after the French double subs on 40 minutes. No chance Southgate is ever doing that. We were chasing the game and left one of our remaining strikers on the bench.

 

[Chrisb]

I am torn on Southgate. I think he's done a lot of good things as manager when you consider the situation we were in when he took over. He's got the fans and media back on side, he's fostered a good culture and spirit in the team and the players clearly like him. And he's got closer to winning a major tournament than anyone else since 1966.

At the same time, I do feel that maybe he's taken the team as far as he can, that he's too conservative and slow to make changes to impact big games. You could argue we've had kind draws and been beaten by the first good team we've played against in each of his three tournament campaigns. I also think he's been a bit distracted by politics, like the whole knee-taking nonsense.

Maybe it's time for someone else to come in and take this brilliant generation forward to the next level. But then the question is who? There is a lack of English coaches at the highest level, and I generally believe the national team manager should come from the country. Anyway, we're stuck with him for now.

I am pleased that GS has decided to stay and absolutely agree that the national team manager should come from this country.. That said, some years ago I thought Eddie Howe would make a good England manager in the future and he has done nothing to change my mind on that recently.

 

[Kat_r]

I am pleased that GS has decided to stay and absolutely agree that the national team manager should come from this country.. That said, some years ago I thought Eddie Howe would make a good England manager in the future and he has done nothing to change my mind on that recently.

I disagree. I don’t think the manager has to come from England/Britain. It limits the pool of potential

 

[Kris]

I think people overrate our players, our attackers absolutely are world class but our defence and midfield aren't, it speaks volumes that Jordan Henderson was one of our best players in the world cup despite not even being a regular starter for Liverpool anymore. We've got about as far as I think we should on paper, which for me is a big improvement on the crap we had before Southgate came in.

Agree. We are blessed with talent in the attacking third but defensively we are very thin. Harry Maguire and John Stones have barely played this season, Luke Shaw has rash moments and Kyle Walker is possibly the most overrated full-back ever to play for England. Compare that with Gary Neville, John Terry, Rio Ferdinand and Ashley Cole, who started for England against Portugal in the QF in 2006. Jamie Carragher and Sol Campbell were on the bench; our CBs on the bench in this tournament were Eric Dier and Conor Coady.

Hence why Gareth Southgate sometimes plays cautiously with two unspectacular central midfielders, although Jude Bellingham has a great future. Just hope he keeps his feet on the ground and doesn't become a wasted talent like Jack Wilshere, Dele Alli or Ross Barkley.

Southgate has performed miracles since his arrival, creating a squad who actually want to play for England rather than seeing it as a chore like the previous 'golden generation'. For that alone he should be backed for now. Eddie Howe is the standout candidate to replace GS but there's no guarantee he'll be available. Would he even want the job?

 

[Leigh_Seasider]

Sadly we’re not the level of an Argentina or a France judging by that final. It isn’t just talent it’s mentality. Watch the way Messi and Mbappe under huge pressure slotted away their pens and the way Kane skied his. We always fall short when it matters, it seems. There’s no doubt GS has done well and improved the England side and made the public care about them again.

We matched France for large parts of the QF, but couldn’t put them away same with Italy in the Euros. And many teams in many tournaments before. Southgate at least has got us regularly to the later stages.

I feel the only way we’ll get over this mental hurdle is to beat a team in a major tournament we aren’t expected to. Another manager wouldn’t be able to magic up world class defenders. Our back four aren’t even regular starters for their clubs. Who’s coming through .. Tomori?! Attacking wise we’re fine. Almost too many options.

Maybe just maybe we accept we’re good but not one of the best and go into just one tournament without thinking we’re going to win it and “bring it home” and all that bollocks. And give Southgate one more chance as he’s really done alright.

 

[RHB]

Sadly we’re not the level of an Argentina or a France judging by that final. It isn’t just talent it’s mentality. Watch the way Messi and Mbappe under huge pressure slotted away their pens and the way Kane skied his. We always fall short when it matters, it seems. There’s no doubt GS has done well and improved the England side and made the public care about them again.

We matched France for large parts of the QF, but couldn’t put them away same with Italy in the Euros. And many teams in many tournaments before. Southgate at least has got us regularly to the later stages.

I feel the only way we’ll get over this mental hurdle is to beat a team in a major tournament we aren’t expected to. Another manager wouldn’t be able to magic up world class defenders. Our back four aren’t even regular starters for their clubs. Who’s coming through .. Tomori?! Attacking wise we’re fine. Almost too many options.

Maybe just maybe we accept we’re good but not one of the best and go into just one tournament without thinking we’re going to win it and “bring it home” and all that bollocks. And give Southgate one more chance as he’s really done alright.

That is just a bit unfair. Kane's first penalty was a great example of how to covert a penalty, power and accuracy against a World Class keeper. He leaned back a fraction too far and over it went, it happens to all great strikers. His record as a penalty taker for England speaks volumes on conversion rates.

 

[Leigh_Seasider]

That is just a bit unfair. Kane's first penalty was a great example of how to covert a penalty, power and accuracy against a World Class keeper. He leaned back a fraction too far and over it went, it happens to all great strikers. His record as a penalty taker for England speaks volumes on conversion rates.

My point was it didn’t happen to Mbappe or Messi under even greater pressure. I’m not doubting Kane’s ability to take a pen in usual circumstances but I think the pressure got to him. He looked nervous and uncomfortable.

That’s just my personal opinion.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

My point was it didn’t happen to Mbappe or Messi under even greater pressure. I’m not doubting Kane’s ability to take a pen in usual circumstances but I think the pressure got to him. He looked nervous and uncomfortable.

That’s just my personal opinion.

Messi missed a penalty in their first match.

 

[Leigh_Seasider]

Messi missed a penalty in their first match.

When it didn’t matter.

Anyway, I’m OK to stick with GS..he’s built something and we have some amazing talent and the players clearly like him.

Where I think we fall short is at the back .. centre back particularly where we lack mobility. Two athletic centre backs who are comfortable on the ball and we’re in good shape. James and Chilwell can fill the wing back roles you’d hope. And finally in the next Euros maybe we can get that weight off our back and beat a France or an Italy in the knockouts. Mentally that’d be huge. Hopefully, no daft predictions that we’ll win it .. (not likely!)

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

There are very few stand out defenders atm, Virgil maybe but he was playing almost solo in the Netherlands team, almost.
The French and Argies seemed very suspect to pace and width, or set pieces.
I would liked to have seen Grealish torment the French back line, draw some fouls (if ref could be forced to give them) and see what happens.
Not the GS way though was it, safety first was the mantra.

 

[Leigh_Seasider]

There are very few stand out defenders atm, Virgil maybe but he was playing almost solo in the Netherlands team, almost.
The French and Argies seemed very suspect to pace and width, or set pieces.
I would liked to have seen Grealish torment the French back line, draw some fouls (if ref could be forced to give them) and see what happens.
Not the GS way though was it, safety first was the mantra.

Yeah there was definitely an argument for bringing on Rashford (who was flying) and Grealish much earlier. Even Maddison. GS has always been caution first, he manages like he played! He has his “go to” players but that’s also helped us I think, kept a bit of stability and overall I think he’s in credit.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

Yeah there was definitely an argument for bringing on Rashford (who was flying) and Grealish much earlier. Even Maddison. GS has always been caution first, he manages like he played! He has his “go to” players but that’s also helped us I think, kept a bit of stability and overall I think he’s in credit.

The oft quoted sayings of two coaches spring to mind.
Boycott, " play for a draw and you will only lose or draw"
And Fry " they score three, we will score four"
Or words to that effect.
"Timid heart never won fair maiden" also has some resonance for me.

 

[hlane17]

One last crack at it for the 2024 Euros for me. If we don't win it, then pass the baton onto super Eddie Howe who has Newcastle playing incredible football.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

What ‘really big’ teams? Nigh on every team has come a cropper in tournaments over the years in the knock-out stages, its not just just England who have problems.

Imagine you saw yesterday's memorable game? Argentina are currently ranked 3rd in FIFA'a ratings ,France 4th.England are fifth.Other big teams that come to mind are Brazil,Spain and Germany .

Suggest you have a look at Ozzie's post in this thread.He's obviously a huge England fan but much more realistic about our future chances.FWIW,I wish GS luck .He's certainly going to need it in Germany.

 

[southendkid]

Imagine you saw yesterday's memorable game? Argentina are currently ranked 3rd in FIFA'a ratings ,France 4th.England are fifth.Other big teams that come to mind are Brazil,Spain and Germany .

Suggest you have a look at Ozzie's post in this thread.He's obviously a huge England fan but much more realistic about our future chances.FWIW,I wish GS luck .He's certainly going to need it in Germany.

Germany were a big team 6 or 7 years ago but they've declined heavily since then. They haven't got out of the group stage in the last 2 world cups and we beat them 2-0 in the Euros last year. Spain didn't really impress me either, they pass it around nicely but no one seems to know where the net is, I think if we'd come up against them we would have had a good chance of winning.

 

[londonblue]

I think it's interesting to look at the progression in the French side since Clairefontaine opened in 1988. It took until 1998 for France to become world champions for the 1st time.

However, the next world cup saw them go out in the group stage without scoring a goal. So, looking a bit further on, I would say it took until 2014 for them to become a consistent force in football. In those terms it took 26 years to really become a force.

In contrast St. Georges Park opened in 2012, a full 24 years after Clairefontaine and I would say we have already become a consistent force in world football. Not to the same extent as France, but I would say we are ahead of the timeline they set.

Somebody has to be responsible for that accelerated progression.

The question, however, is who is best placed to continue that progression, and none of the above answers that!