Flavs or Collis?

[* ORM *]

Having a midget for a keeper is one thing (though that never bothered Ipswich in the 70s), not having someone on a post when defending set-pieces is extremely poor. Conceding a goal from a free-kick and deciding not to do anything about it next time there's a free kick in a similar position, resulting in another goal is indefensible.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

I can think of many occasions in the recent past where crosses or set-pieces have entered our net via deliveries into the 6-yard box which the keeper MUST deal with 95% of the time - Flavs isn't anywhere near good enough in this area.

At Brighton it was embarrassing, I'll bet my bottom dollar Clarke and Barrett CAN play together with Collis behind, something they clearly can't do with Flavs.

Whilst I agree with you that the keeper should be dealing with balls inside the 6 yard box, two small centre-halves aren't just vulnerable at crosses, they are also vulnerable to the long hoofs forward being flicked on.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

If they had a keeper who could claim crosses then Barrett & Clarke wouldn't have had to have been defending as deep as they were at Brighton. Flavs may not have been directly at fault for those goals but having a short goalkeeper who the defenders know can't/won't deal with balls into the box draws the back four back towards their own goal which is asking for trouble when the centre-backs are as short as those two are.

Spot on.

Its also worth considering the starting position of both keepers. Collis positions himself further forward which helps push the defence up, and all of a sudden the opposition are playing outside the penalty area, rather than around the penalty spot.

 

[Beefy]

Having a midget for a keeper is one thing (though that never bothered Ipswich in the 70s), not having someone on a post when defending set-pieces is extremely poor. Conceding a goal from a free-kick and deciding not to do anything about it next time there's a free kick in a similar position, resulting in another goal is indefensible.

If you're talking about the Orient & Leeds freekicks then I think you're being a bit harsh. If we stuck players on the posts when the free kick is as central as those two are then we play the opposition onside and they can just fill our six yard box which creates a whole seperate array of problems.

 

[Angell Delight]

Whilst I agree with you that the keeper should be dealing with balls inside the 6 yard box, two small centre-halves aren't just vulnerable at crosses, they are also vulnerable to the long hoofs forward being flicked on.

Fair points, I agree. I do however believe that the confidence boost Clarke and Barrett must surely have with a taller keeper behind them will help and the problem shouldn't be anywhere near as bad, although I accept that having Richards in the centre does ensure we are stronger aerially.

 

[TJC]

Anyone around in the mid 90's who saw Royce every week in a Shrimpers shirt is likely to say he is the best keeper Southend United have been fortunate to possess in the recent past, even more so than Sammy. In the 95/96 season he was quite simply the best keeper in Division One and was being courted by Liverpool, West Ham and Tottenham among others (we rejected a bid of £1m+ from Liverpool in late '95). I thought Sammy was a great keeper but Royce became (and is still) the finest keeper I've ever seen at Roots Hall. It's rare that anyone ever gets a 10/10 in the papers, Royce used to get 3 or 4 a season. His performances at West Ham and Palace in cup competitions remain the greatest goalkeeping displays I've ever seen, and the 2 Banks-esque stops against Derby from Sturridge (home) and Bradford from Edinho (home) will live long in the memory as the most breathtakingly impossible stops I've ever seen from a Southend custodian.

I was around and disagree. Flavs is for me is the best since Sammy. Having said that Roycey was in the championship most of his time with us but just can't forget his dead ball kicking. Pompey away was a particular horror show where in the end, a defender took all the goal kicks. But I still opt for Daryl over Roycey; but I'm not saying Royce was bad. We've always done well on keepers and it looks set to continue.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

I was around and disagree. Flavs is for me is the best since Sammy. Having said that Roycey was in the championship most of his time with us but just can't forget his dead ball kicking. Pompey away was a particular horror show where in the end, a defender took all the goal kicks. But I still opt for Daryl over Roycey; but I'm not saying Royce was bad. We've always done well on keepers and it looks set to continue.

How often did Roycie's kicking cost us a game?

I can think of several games where Flahavan's decision-making and lack of command of his penalty area has cost us.

I'd take a good decision-maker with bad kicking over a poor decision-maker with good kicking every day. Besides, Flahavan's kicking whilst nowhere near as bad as Roycie's is still poor. Its a minor miracle when his goal-kicks don't go out for a throw on the half way line.

 

[bigmolt]

How often did Roycie's kicking cost us a game?

I can think of several games where Flahavan's decision-making and lack of command of his penalty area has cost us.

I'd take a good decision-maker with bad kicking over a poor decision-maker with good kicking every day. Besides, Flahavan's kicking whilst nowhere near as bad as Roycie's is still poor. Its a minor miracle when his goal-kicks don't go out for a throw on the half way line.

Wot short memories you have . Darryl has been awsome for us the last few seasons. Yes he is a little short but wot a goalie . He won so many points points for us in the two promotion seasons and last year he did not let us down, and will not this season either. It rearly sickens me the slating Darryl and Kevin are getting on here lately.With Eastwood and JCR gone, they are the only two class players left IMO.

 

[* ORM *]

Back to the Q - bringing Darryl straight back achieves nothing. Unfortunate injury but that slot is now Collis's to lose. Wrong message to both players, and the fans, if he walks straight back in.

Cue a 6 nil drubbing on Sat :p

 

[Angell Delight]

How often did Roycie's kicking cost us a game?

I can think of several games where Flahavan's decision-making and lack of command of his penalty area has cost us.

I'd take a good decision-maker with bad kicking over a poor decision-maker with good kicking every day.

Spot on YB, spot on.

 

[wiggy]

Wot short memories you have . Darryl has been awsome for us the last few seasons. Yes he is a little short but wot a goalie . He won so many points points for us in the two promotion seasons and last year he did not let us down, and will not this season either. It rearly sickens me the slating Darryl and Kevin are getting on here lately.With Eastwood and JCR gone, they are the only two class players left IMO.

Just about to write the same myself, short memories most of em and clueless with it, especially as Collis is an average keeper at best

 

[Beefy]

Just about to write the same myself, short memories most of em and clueless with it, especially as Collis is an average keeper at best

So just to clarify, you'd bring Flavs straight back in?

What kind of message does that send to the rest of the squad?

 

[South Bank Hank]

short memories most of em and clueless with it...

I can still remember you telling us categorically that Ron Martin was intentionally trying to get us relegated after getting rid of Constantine and signing some non-league, non-entity traveller from Grays - just so he could build on Roots Hall.

What a loser that Martin fella is, eh!?

Oh, and...

Collis for the additional height it gives our otherwise too short defensive line-up, even though I'm a big fan of the Flav.

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

short memories

That's an early contender for the title of Darryl's memoirs, isn't it?

:finger:

Collis - 2 games, 2 clean sheets. Wiggy - what exactly about that stat don't you like?

 

[Beefy]

Collis - 2 games, 2 clean sheets. Wiggy - what exactly about that stat don't you like?

Richards coming in and us playing two pants teams after a run of games against sides who will probably finish top-half have both contributed massively to that stat though, Matt. You can't put it all down to Collis.

As far as I'm concerned though Collis has the jersey and that's the way that things should stay for now. It's the same story with Gower - I think he's the best player in the squad but Tommy Black has his shirt for now and Gower should have to bide his time and then make the most of his opportunity when it comes around. Gower & Flahavan will both get more chances in the first team - they're too good and too established here not to, but neither should be guaranteed a place in the side the same as Maher & Barrett (the other two 'undroppables') shouldn't. That's the whole point of having a squad, surely?

 

[wiggy]

So just to clarify, you'd bring Flavs straight back in?

What kind of message does that send to the rest of the squad?

A message that you play your most capable team, in a nutshell Flahavan is different class to Collis, always will be and should be put straight back in the team as soon as fit!

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

You should always play your strongest team. I however believe that our strongest team would be one with a decisive keeper who can command his 6 yard box.

 

[wiggy]

I can still remember you telling us categorically that Ron Martin was intentionally trying to get us relegated after getting rid of Constantine and signing some non-league, non-entity traveller from Grays - just so he could build on Roots Hall.

What a loser that Martin fella is, eh!?

Oh, and...

Collis for the additional height it gives our otherwise too short defensive line-up, even though I'm a big fan of the Flav.

Shame he don't use this added height advantage!

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

A message that you play your most capable team, in a nutshell Flahavan is different class to Collis, always will be and should be put straight back in the team as soon as fit!

Wiggy, you really ought to watch some of the games from World Cup 1982. It is a deeply salutary lesson about how a team with the most talented individuals (Brazil) often loses to the best team (Italy).

If the defence plays poorly when Darryl's in goal, but feels more confident and play well with Collis in goal, then it's an absolute no-brainer as to who should play.

And it's not your vertcally-challenged chum, in case you're wondering.

Matt

 

[Jai]

It's nice to be able to have this debate - in my view Flavs is a class shot-stopper but was found out in the Championship because his inability to command his box was punished.

I have seen every game Collis has played for us and he has to my mind done nothing wrong. Those fortunate enough to be at Oldham will testify that Collis didn't put a foot wrong and dealt with a lot of high balls extremely well. For that reason, he must stay in the team. One of Tilson's main strengths is his ability to keep morale high and maintain a good team spirit, and dropping Collis would be akin to sticking two fingers up at him and telling him he's rubbish.

Our back line looks a lot more comfortable in this league with Richards and Collis in it, IMO. That's not to say I don't rate Flavs because he is a fine keeper at this level, but at the moment, Collis is playing better.