England vs Pakistan Test Series

[EastStandBlue]

Yeah, because he was taking it to make himself look slimmer on TV and not because it was a known masking agent for banned performance enhancing drugs that would have increased his recovery time from shoulder surgery he'd just undergone and comeback from ahead of schedule.

Fair enough, I wasn't aware of it being used as a masking agent for PEDs, but I still think that certain drugs should be treated differently than others in terms of competitive bans, especially in reference to the particular sport. There's an argument now that users of anabolic steroids and various other PED's have life-long benefits over 'clean' athletes, courtesy of a study underway in the US on track athletes, which obviously warrants a life-long ban.

Compare that to Paddy Kenny, who was recently hit with a lengthy ban because of something in an over-the-counter cough medicine which would've bared little, if any, impact on his performance as a goalkeeper.

 

[southend4ever]

Sorry I have not been around much recently chaps. I have had 14th man duties with England. Before you ask, no this does not involve wiping their back doors :p

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

According to the Beeb: "CRICKET:Decision on three Pakistan players facing ICC charges deferred until separate hearing next month" :unsure:

Why would you need a separate hearing? Is this more slack journalism: do they mean separate hearings for the players individually? Has guilt been established and it's hearing to determine punishment? Or do they actually mean that this hearing been adjourned and it will be continued next month (rather than a separate hearing)?

 

[number11]

According to the Beeb: "CRICKET:Decision on three Pakistan players facing ICC charges deferred until separate hearing next month" :unsure:

Why would you need a separate hearing? Is this more slack journalism: do they mean separate hearings for the players individually? Has guilt been established and it's hearing to determine punishment? Or do they actually mean that this hearing been adjourned and it will be continued next month (rather than a separate hearing)?

The snippet I read this morning was that Asif had asked for a deferred / delayed decision so that the Judges could take their time to deliberate. Maybe this is the case and the verdict will be given at a seperate hearing in due course?

 

[BILLERICAY BLUE]

Westfield's case must be up soon as well.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

The snippet I read this morning was that Asif had asked for a deferred / delayed decision so that the Judges could take their time to deliberate. Maybe this is the case and the verdict will be given at a seperate hearing in due course?

Yep, looks like sloppy sub-editing from the Beeb. It's not a separate hearing, but the same hearing will be adjourned until then.

I don't understand why Asif wants this delayed. He's currently suspended and there's a world cup coming up in which he'd play if he's found innocent.

 

[EastStandBlue]

I don't understand why Asif wants this delayed. He's currently suspended and there's a world cup coming up in which he'd play if he's found innocent.

Needs time to get down to the bookies to place a stake on the outcome, I'd imagine...

 

[number11]

Yep, looks like sloppy sub-editing from the Beeb. It's not a separate hearing, but the same hearing will be adjourned until then.

I don't understand why Asif wants this delayed. He's currently suspended and there's a world cup coming up in which he'd play if he's found innocent.

Yeah I was surprised it seemed to be the main thrust of his pleadings so he must have been really keen for the delay? Maybe gives them sufficient time to nobble the judges..... :o)

Actually it may have been Amir who wanted the delayed decision. My only guess would be that the evidence is not looking good (as seems to have been admitted by Butt) and therefore he is hoping rather than having the book thrown at him under weight of evidence, there may be (as I have heard) some sympathy from those in the game reported as to how he is only 18, stresses on family etc etc and hope that as things settle he is treated leniently.

Personally, I sympathise with him, but think they really do need to make an example and ban them all IF they are found guilty. Cricket has an appalling record of dealing with unsavoury practices, which has enabled the likes of Azharrudin to keep their reputations and continue to receive honours despite being a cheat. I hope the evidence overwhelming suggests they didnt cheat but Im not hopeful.

 

[EastStandBlue]

Yeah I was surprised it seemed to be the main thrust of his pleadings so he must have been really keen for the delay? Maybe gives them sufficient time to nobble the judges..... :o)

Actually it may have been Amir who wanted the delayed decision. My only guess would be that the evidence is not looking good (as seems to have been admitted by Butt) and therefore he is hoping rather than having the book thrown at him under weight of evidence, there may be (as I have heard) some sympathy from those in the game reported as to how he is only 18, stresses on family etc etc and hope that as things settle he is treated leniently.

Personally, I sympathise with him, but think they really do need to make an example and ban them all IF they are found guilty. Cricket has an appalling record of dealing with unsavoury practices, which has enabled the likes of Azharrudin to keep their reputations and continue to receive honours despite being a cheat. I hope the evidence overwhelming suggests they didnt cheat but Im not hopeful.

To be fair, Football's not much better... The coverage and praise Steve Evans has been receiving today is gut wrenching considering the fact he's a crook.

 

[number11]

To be fair, Football's not much better... The coverage and praise Steve Evans has been receiving today is gut wrenching considering the fact he's a crook.

I agree, though in a sport where scum like John Terry, Diouf, Barton etc earn fortunes, I don't think anyone really even tries to make people believe there is any great dignity about football......

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Actually it may have been Amir who wanted the delayed decision. Personally, I sympathise with him...

I sympathise massively with him. The punishment which should be handed out to Butt (the captain) and Asif (a senior player) should be an order of magnitude greater than that given to Amir (a kid, newly in the team; and also a hick kid from the middle of nowhere with nary a couple of brass farthings to rub together).

If found guilty, Butt and Asif should cop bans in the region of 8-10 years; as for Amir, it should be more like 2-3 years.

Matt

 

[number11]

I sympathise massively with him. The punishment which should be handed out to Butt (the captain) and Asif (a senior player) should be an order of magnitude greater than that given to Amir (a kid, newly in the team; and also a hick kid from the middle of nowhere with nary a couple of brass farthings to rub together).

If found guilty, Butt and Asif should cop bans in the region of 8-10 years; as for Amir, it should be more like 2-3 years.

Matt

I sympathise, but an example has to be made. He is still an adult (in UK terms) and whilst I can understand his naivity, a 2-3 year ban (which would equate to missing about 15 tests the amount Pakistan play at the moment) makes the risk for the amounts that could be on offer worthwhile. If they are all guilty they should all get 6-8 year bans (maybe more for Asif has previous). This would end the careers for Asif and Butt, but would still give Amir a chance of some form of a career)
Obviously should they be guilty of course.

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

I sympathise, but an example has to be made. He is still an adult (in UK terms) and whilst I can understand his naivity, a 2-3 year ban (which would equate to missing about 15 tests the amount Pakistan play at the moment) makes the risk for the amounts that could be on offer worthwhile. If they are all guilty they should all get 6-8 year bans (maybe more for Asif has previous). This would end the careers for Asif and Butt, but would still give Amir a chance of some form of a career)

Obviously should they be guilty of course.

I still think he should get shorter bans than the other two, especially if Asif has previous.

I must also confess that I have almost certainly been swayed by watching him bowl at Lord's last year. His opening spell on Day 2 of the Lord's test was the most mesmerising spell of swing bowling I have ever had the privilege to watch; the first half an hour of play saw three wickets for no runs - and almost every delivery a jaffa. I'm not sure I've ever watched anyone quite so unplayable - and I've been lucky enough to see some fairly good bowlers in the flesh (McGrath, Waqar, Imran, Courtney, Curtley, Alderman, Merv, Donald, Pollock, Ntini, Goughie, Jimmy, Harmison to name a few). Given his age, I'm not sure I've seen anyone with such ludicrously prodigious talent.

I suspect I'm mourning what will, unquestionably, be cricket's loss - and mourning the fact that (presumably) this would not have been at his own instigation, but instead as a result of his being led astray by Asif and Butt.

:(

Matt

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

I still think he should get shorter bans than the other two, especially if Asif has previous.

I must also confess that I have almost certainly been swayed by watching him bowl at Lord's last year. His opening spell on Day 2 of the Lord's test was the most mesmerising spell of swing bowling I have ever had the privilege to watch; the first half an hour of play saw three wickets for no runs - and almost every delivery a jaffa. I'm not sure I've ever watched anyone quite so unplayable - and I've been lucky enough to see some fairly good bowlers in the flesh (McGrath, Waqar, Imran, Courtney, Curtley, Alderman, Merv, Donald, Pollock, Ntini, Goughie, Jimmy, Harmison to name a few). Given his age, I'm not sure I've seen anyone with such ludicrously prodigious talent.

I suspect I'm mourning what will, unquestionably, be cricket's loss - and mourning the fact that (presumably) this would not have been at his own instigation, but instead as a result of his being led astray by Asif and Butt.

:(

Matt

Whereas I'm mourning the loss of integrity to the game.

I much preferred it when players were cheating to try and win, rather than cheating to lose.

Letting him back is fine if he achieves that potential, but every time he falls short of it there's going to be that nagging doubt as to whether it was deliberate or not. This undermines the game. Ban the ********


*Assuming he is guilty.

 

[EastStandBlue]

Asif, Butt and Majeed charged by CPS with conspiracy to obtain and accept corrupt payments and conspiracy to cheat - Courtesy of the Grauniad's Mike Adamson.

You'd have to imagine, then, that the evidence is highly damning.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Asif, Butt and Majeed charged by CPS with conspiracy to obtain and accept corrupt payments and conspiracy to cheat - Courtesy of the Grauniad's Mike Adamson.

You'd have to imagine, then, that the evidence is highly damning.

Are these criminal offences?:unsure:

Why no Amir?

 

[EastStandBlue]

Are these criminal offences?:unsure:

Why no Amir?

BBC are reporting Amir as involved and not Majeed... It wouldn't be beyond a Guardian to source to get it wrong initially.

 

[BrettieAngell]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/other_international/pakistan/9388422.stm

Cop out!

 

[BrettieAngell]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/13695380.stm

Amir flaunts ban by playing for a village team in Surrey? Should increase his ban to a life one if true, what an idiot!