Pre-Match Thread England v Switzerland EUFA Euros Quarter Final 17:00hrs ko.

[Kris]

No it's just I've seen the Swiss play -and they're a better team than England,

Assuming you mean the team and not better individual players I agree. We’ve got to seriously step it up if we are to progress. We might have better players but football is a team game and we haven’t looked like one so far.

It’s why we didn’t win a competition under Sven’s golden generation and likewise Belgium’s equivalent when they had their own and were top (not that this is a definitive of course!) in the world rankings.

Until now GS has picked sides with a great balance. This is the first time I’ve doubted him because I’ve never seen us so disjointed, especially in midfield. So far, alongside Rice have been TAA (good idea but didn’t work), Gallagher (headless chicken) and Mainoo. The fact that the latter is probably our best option says it all. I really like him but I’m not sure he is physically ready yet. That said I haven’t seen Wharton play so that may be a potential solution but GS hasn’t tried that so far.

I’m wondering whether GS is considering 352/343. It would allow Stones to come out from the back more effectively and perhaps free up Bellingham and Foden in more central areas. It could also allow a second striker such as Watkins to ease the pressure on Kane and stretch the play more.

Martin Keown said in the highlights show last night that Switzerland are the most fluid and well-drilled team in the tournament, based on what he has seen live so far. We are far too predictable at the moment.

 

[* ORM *]

Bloody midnight KO again. The bars here will be utterly heaving but I still can’t bring myself to watch it.

I promise to should we get to the semi at which point I’ll blow the cobwebs off the England shirt I wore when I played at the old Wembley just before it was demolished.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

Sorry we're going to lose this one.

Blimey mate, that patriotic fervour and optimism of yours is bursting out! CALM DOWN

#Mc'Tangers in Tartan

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Assuming you mean the team and not better individual players I agree. We’ve got to seriously step it up if we are to progress. We might have better players but football is a team game and we haven’t looked like one so far.

It’s why we didn’t win a competition under Sven’s golden generation and likewise Belgium’s equivalent when they had their own and were top (not that this is a definitive of course!) in the world rankings.

Until now GS has picked sides with a great balance. This is the first time I’ve doubted him because I’ve never seen us so disjointed, especially in midfield. So far, alongside Rice have been TAA (good idea but didn’t work), Gallagher (headless chicken) and Mainoo. The fact that the latter is probably our best option says it all. I really like him but I’m not sure he is physically ready yet. That said I haven’t seen Wharton play so that may be a potential solution but GS hasn’t tried that so far.

I’m wondering whether GS is considering 352/343. It would allow Stones to come out from the back more effectively and perhaps free up Bellingham and Foden in more central areas. It could also allow a second striker such as Watkins to ease the pressure on Kane and stretch the play more.

Martin Keown said in the highlights show last night that Switzerland are the most fluid and well-drilled team in the tournament, based on what he has seen live so far. We are far too predictable at the moment.

The trouble with 3-5-2 is it requires extra central midfielders and central defenders - our two weakest positions where we’re struggling to find enough good players to play those positions anyway!

It comes down to do you want to double up on your strengths or your weaknesses.

 

[EastStandBlue]

Not only has Southgate used a 3-4-3/3-5-2 system before, he’s done so in tournaments and specifically to match other teams up. Germany in the last Euros was a perfect example of that, and it caught Germany out.

You also have the added rationale that Italy played four at the back against Switzerland and got swarmed, just as the Swiss manager said they would.

For that reason I wouldn’t be surprised if Southgate did so again, but I just don’t think we have the personnel to make it work.

A back three of Gomez/Konsa, Stones and Walker would be fine. Gomez may get the nod ahead of Konsa considering he’s played the system before, but Konsa appears to be ahead of Gomez at the moment.

The first issue is in central midfield, and who partners Rice. I can’t see Mainoo offering the kind of defensive cover, and you’re expecting an awful lot from a clearly weary Bellingham in that role. So you’re left with Gallagher, who’s brilliant out of possession and work match Switzerland for work rate and endeavour, but he’s not creating much.

Then you have to address the wing backs. TAA would probably be fine - I think criticism of his defensive ability is now a bit overblown - but who’s taking the left wing-back position?

Trippier? He’d be even more exposed than he has been and would be hugely problematic in possession.

Shaw? He last played in February. There’s no way he’s seeing a game out, let alone in a position that requires enormous athleticism.

Saka? We’re very much back to square pegs and round holes here.

I don’t see a single appealing option from those three on current form, fitness and roles.

You could maybe argue that two from Saka, Foden, Bellingham and Palmer are then deployed behind Kane, and that could well work, but the counter here is that it leaves England without natural width, which has been our problem all tournament.

 

[pottster]

Not expecting a classic, I think 1 nil either way. Unless this is Southgates master plan that making everyone think we are rubbish, to only go and switch it on come the match! Not many teams have been outstanding at this tournament, in fact most are mediocre. Think Spain look the most likely to win it

 

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

No it's just I've seen the Swiss play -and they're a better team than England,

They are not a better team than England,,,,,,,,,,,,,,But,,,,,,,,,,,,,They are playing better, and have the better tactics and better Manager.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I think what's really impressed me is the hard work, the pressing and the relentless harrying of teams - you've seen it with Slovenia, with the Turks last night. We need to be pressing Switzerland from the off on Sat, not giving them any time on the ball. So far we've not seen that energy from England.

In terms of defensive attributes, Guehi will be a big miss - Stones makes me nervous and hasn't really been tested yet. I think 3 at the back protected by Rice and Mainoo might be the way but GS will have his own ideas. What I hope we don't do is sit back and invite pressure. They can't score if we have the ball but let's keep the ball in their half, if possible. This is where I think Trent and Gordon as wing backs might work as they can break quickly and start attacks.

Think you could also mention the Swiss in this regard,.

 

[Tribal Chief]

Think you could also mention the Swiss in this regard,.

Maybe, but they will be crying into their Toblerones on Saturday night.

Interestingly, Toblerones are also made in Slovakia. So it will be Mars Bars 2, Toblerone 0

 

[Bearded Shrimper]

we're something like 3rd highest for ball possession, but we don't do enough with it. hopefully that's more sortable than not being able to pass the ball at all. but we've got a lot of weak links to cover leaving us unbalanced. if we had a left back to give us some width that would help a lot. If Shaw's not fit, maybe Saka on the left at either full back or wing back.

maybe

Pickford

Walker Stones Konsa
TAA Rice Mainoo Saka
Foden Bellingham
Kane

otherwise Shaw in for TAA and at left back?
just doesn't seem to balance

 

[Leigh_Seasider]

Not only has Southgate used a 3-4-3/3-5-2 system before, he’s done so in tournaments and specifically to match other teams up. Germany in the last Euros was a perfect example of that, and it caught Germany out.

You also have the added rationale that Italy played four at the back against Switzerland and got swarmed, just as the Swiss manager said they would.

For that reason I wouldn’t be surprised if Southgate did so again, but I just don’t think we have the personnel to make it work.

A back three of Gomez/Konsa, Stones and Walker would be fine. Gomez may get the nod ahead of Konsa considering he’s played the system before, but Konsa appears to be ahead of Gomez at the moment.

The first issue is in central midfield, and who partners Rice. I can’t see Mainoo offering the kind of defensive cover, and you’re expecting an awful lot from a clearly weary Bellingham in that role. So you’re left with Gallagher, who’s brilliant out of possession and work match Switzerland for work rate and endeavour, but he’s not creating much.

Then you have to address the wing backs. TAA would probably be fine - I think criticism of his defensive ability is now a bit overblown - but who’s taking the left wing-back position?

Trippier? He’d be even more exposed than he has been and would be hugely problematic in possession.

Shaw? He last played in February. There’s no way he’s seeing a game out, let alone in a position that requires enormous athleticism.

Saka? We’re very much back to square pegs and round holes here.

I don’t see a single appealing option from those three on current form, fitness and roles.

You could maybe argue that two from Saka, Foden, Bellingham and Palmer are then deployed behind Kane, and that could well work, but the counter here is that it leaves England without natural width, which has been our problem all tournament.

I mentioned further up Gordon at LWB was mentioned by some tv pundit, playing the kind of role Cucurella does at Chelsea or Gvardiol at City. You’ve got your width there & might work with a back 3? Trent RWB as Walker doesn’t seem the threat he has been in the past.

As for how you best accommodate Bellingham & Saka .. do you drop Foden .. do you play a 2 up top.. who partners Rice .. I’m glad I’m not Southgate.

@Tangled up in Blue yep Switzerland have been impressive so far but so were Austria!

 

[EastStandBlue]

I mentioned further up Gordon at LWB was mentioned by some tv pundit, playing the kind of role Cucurella does at Chelsea or Gvardiol at City. You’ve got your width there & might work with a back 3? Trent RWB as Walker doesn’t seem the threat he has been in the past.

As for how you best accommodate Bellingham & Saka .. do you drop Foden .. do you play a 2 up top.. who partners Rice .. I’m glad I’m not Southgate.

@Tangled up in Blue yep Switzerland have been impressive so far but so were Austria!

Gordon’s probably behind Trippier, Shaw and Saka for wing back in my opinion. I don’t think Gordon’s played in that position before (at least Saka has, for instance), and the quarter finals of a major tournament isn’t the time to try it.

The press now seem to be suggesting England have been experimenting with a back three of Stones, Walker and Konsa. If that’s the case, I can see Southgate going with Trent and Trippier out wide, Rice and Gallagher as the two pivots and Bellingham and Foden behind Kane. You then at least have options - Saka and Gordon to add width, Shaw if he can last 30+ minutes, Palmer and Toney to change the attack, if needed.

My primary concern there is the possible lack of depth in attack. Kane, Bellingham and Foden as an attacking three means Switzerland would be able to defend a lot higher, condensing the space and forcing the defensive line backward.

 

[Bearded Shrimper]

Gordon’s probably behind Trippier, Shaw and Saka for wing back in my opinion. I don’t think Gordon’s played in that position before (at least Saka has, for instance), and the quarter finals of a major tournament isn’t the time to try it.

The press now seem to be suggesting England have been experimenting with a back three of Stones, Walker and Konsa. If that’s the case, I can see Southgate going with Trent and Trippier out wide, Rice and Gallagher as the two pivots and Bellingham and Foden behind Kane. You then at least have options - Saka and Gordon to add width, Shaw if he can last 30+ minutes, Palmer and Toney to change the attack, if needed.

My primary concern there is the possible lack of depth in attack. Kane, Bellingham and Foden as an attacking three means Switzerland would be able to defend a lot higher, condensing the space and forcing the defensive line backward.

good point, not much pace there

 

[Clinton Baptiste]

Toney has to play up top if 3 5 2.

 

[* ORM *]

I just wish we’d adopt attack as a form of defence.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

good point, not much pace there

This is where we miss Sterling or even Rashford.

I just wish we’d adopt attack as a form of defence.

And have the third highest amount of possession?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

This is where we miss Sterling or even Rashford.


And have the third highest amount of possession?

Goals are what count in fooball (ask France) not possession.

 

[Leigh_Seasider]

This is where we miss Sterling or even Rashford.


And have the third highest amount of possession?

We have players with pace. Gordon, Eze, Watkins. It's just trying to fit them in. We've almost got too many forward options and it's mad that we might need to consider dropping one of Saka/Bellingham/Foden. Not that I think Southgate would!

 

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

I just wish we’d adopt attack as a form of defence.

Stones is like the conductor at the back. He is central, receives the ball, and the only question is will he pass it sideways right or left? Then he usually gets it straight back, and repeat. He prefers to pass to Walker, and sometimes they do about 8 passes back and forth between them. Then when the closing down comes, it's back to Pickford. If anyone doesn't believe it, just watch half an hour of the last game, even after being 1-0 down. He plays totally different for Man City. At City, he is obviously told to pass forward, and even run forward with the ball. One game Trent AA went off, and the commentator said a very strange stat is that Pickford made more passes than TAA, and TAA was playing in midfield. We can't keep playing like this.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Stones is like the conductor at the back. He is central, receives the ball, and the only question is will he pass it sideways right or left? Then he usually gets it straight back, and repeat. He prefers to pass to Walker, and sometimes they do about 8 passes back and forth between them. Then when the closing down comes, it's back to Pickford. If anyone doesn't believe it, just watch half an hour of the last game, even after being 1-0 down. He plays totally different for Man City. At City, he is obviously told to pass forward, and even run forward with the ball. One game Trent AA went off, and the commentator said a very strange stat is that Pickford made more passes than TAA, and TAA was playing in midfield. We can't keep playing like this.

otherwise we won't beat the Swiss (even if we do Holland lie in wait).