• Welcome to the ShrimperZone forums.
    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which only gives you limited access.

    Existing Users:.
    Please log-in using your existing username and password. If you have any problems, please see below.

    New Users:
    Join our free community now and gain access to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and free. Click here to join.

    Fans from other clubs
    We welcome and appreciate supporters from other clubs who wish to engage in sensible discussion. Please feel free to join as above but understand that this is a moderated site and those who cannot play nicely will be quickly removed.

    Assistance Required
    For help with the registration process or accessing your account, please send a note using the Contact us link in the footer, please include your account name. We can then provide you with a new password and verification to get you on the site.

England tour of the West Indies

I think you have to put the declaration into the context of the winter England have had - the last day of the first test in India would've played massively on Strauss' mind, given that Gayle, and to a lesser extent, Sarwan, are both capable of playing an innings like Sehway did to set up that massive chase of almost 400 in the last innings.

Then there was the collapse to 51 all out in Jamaica, which clearly England had to recover from - it was imperative not to suffer another morale-denting defeat (although admittedly this probably won't feel far short).

The main gripe I would have with England's second innings was Anderson's employment as night-watchman - with England effectively 300-1, it was needless, and Shah should've gone in. Cook's grinding knock was personally important to register another 50 - in the long run it could be argued that this was good for the team going forward, although in this particular match, it certainly didn't help.

I think not enforcing the follow on was the right decision. With regard to the night watchman, I wonder how much say Shah had in it. It did seem pointless, and whilst Anderson did his job, in the morning he should have been told to flay the bat even if it meant losing his wicket in the first couple of overs. If they were going to employ a nightwatchman, then wouldnt Swann have been a better bet. He would have been on a high from bowling and when we came back in the morning he could have pinch hit a bit given he opens one dayers for Notts.

Big ask now for England to win the last two tests, but anything other than a victory in this series will be a disappointment, irrespective of the improvement of the Windies.
 
I think not enforcing the follow on was the right decision. With regard to the night watchman, I wonder how much say Shah had in it. It did seem pointless, and whilst Anderson did his job, in the morning he should have been told to flay the bat even if it meant losing his wicket in the first couple of overs. If they were going to employ a nightwatchman, then wouldnt Swann have been a better bet. He would have been on a high from bowling and when we came back in the morning he could have pinch hit a bit given he opens one dayers for Notts.

Big ask now for England to win the last two tests, but anything other than a victory in this series will be a disappointment, irrespective of the improvement of the Windies.

As Strauss was batting, I'm not sure how much say he had in the nightwatchman as he was trudging off at the time the decision was made. Maybe it was something discussed in the dressing room before, but I suspect this is where England needed a head coach.

Can anyone explain why England's best bowler on the final day bowled the fewest overs?
 
Just heard that Prior is flying home and so will miss the next test. Not a parent myself so wont pass comment on this per se.

However, with regard to selection it probably narrows down the selectors options. Prior was a viable option at 6 with Broad at 7 and Swann 8 to enable a bowler to replace Freddie. However surely there is no way they can contemplate playing the hapless faetus head Ambrose at 6, and I think it would be foolish to play Broad there this early in his career.

Therefore surely they will have to replace Freddie with a batsman and hope 4 bowlers can take the needed 20 wickets. Thats good news for Ravi, who got a ton yesterday plus can bowl a little bit and hopefully he gets the nod ahead of Bell.
 
Just heard that Prior is flying home and so will miss the next test. Not a parent myself so wont pass comment on this per se.

However, with regard to selection it probably narrows down the selectors options. Prior was a viable option at 6 with Broad at 7 and Swann 8 to enable a bowler to replace Freddie. However surely there is no way they can contemplate playing the hapless faetus head Ambrose at 6, and I think it would be foolish to play Broad there this early in his career.

Therefore surely they will have to replace Freddie with a batsman and hope 4 bowlers can take the needed 20 wickets. Thats good news for Ravi, who got a ton yesterday plus can bowl a little bit and hopefully he gets the nod ahead of Bell.

Has Mrs Prior gone into labour then? I knew he was going to miss the 5th test, but thought he was going to be available for this one. Was the Allen Stanford Series, where he frolicked with all the wives really 9 months ago?

I think the selectors will go conservative and pick Bell. It is absolute madness that England have sent their reserves to the other side of the world, so they are all jet-lagged. Obviously a jetlagged ravi is still better than Bell, but I fully expect Bell to play and score a century to subject us to another summer of unfulfilled promise.

It is going to be difficult to pick 4 bowlers. There is only one bowler England can rely on IMHO and that is Broad. Harmison and Anderson are too inconsistent, Panesar's form is crap, Swann and Sidebottom are carrying injuries (and aren't all that good), Rashid and Khan are untried at this level.
 
Has Mrs Prior gone into labour then? I knew he was going to miss the 5th test, but thought he was going to be available for this one. Was the Allen Stanford Series, where he frolicked with all the wives really 9 months ago?

I think the selectors will go conservative and pick Bell. It is absolute madness that England have sent their reserves to the other side of the world, so they are all jet-lagged. Obviously a jetlagged ravi is still better than Bell, but I fully expect Bell to play and score a century to subject us to another summer of unfulfilled promise.

It is going to be difficult to pick 4 bowlers. There is only one bowler England can rely on IMHO and that is Broad. Harmison and Anderson are too inconsistent, Panesar's form is crap, Swann and Sidebottom are carrying injuries (and aren't all that good), Rashid and Khan are untried at this level.


She gave birth this morining, so I guess that means he will be back for the 5th test.

Well, Ravi couldnt have done much more than a run a ball century and a an ability to bowl some overs, but liek you I fear Bell will be picked and do well at 6 (where he has been good for england). As much as I like Ravi, Im surprised Samit Patel wasnt considered. He is a more viable bowling option (who's spin, in conjunction with the first choice spinner can tie an end and let the 3 quicks recharge their batteries) and has excellent first class batting average....and sweating off a few pounds in the caribbean sun would do him good.

Also agree that 4 bowlers is difficult to pick, but without Priors batting I just cant see how we can play 5 bowlers. An on form Panesar would help a lot as he can bowl for long spells but otherwise I guess Broad is a shoe in, Swann will be if fit (i have doubts over his long term class , same as sidebottom), and therefore they will have to go with Anderson who at least has good stamina and then a wild card pick from Harmison or Khan. Im guessing Harmy would get the nod.
 
let's hope Prior is better at holding a baby than a cricket ball


That's a bit harsh. Thought his glovework has improved a lot.

He let a few byes that scuttled along the ground go between his pads in the last match, but think it is his more his Mrs's inability to keep her legs shut that has caused this absence....
 
That's a bit harsh. Thought his glovework has improved a lot.

He let a few byes that scuttled along the ground go between his pads in the last match, but think it is his more his Mrs's inability to keep her legs shut that has caused this absence....

true, it was a very poor attempt at a joke. Prior has looked pretty solid on the bits i've seen this series
 
Amjad Khan won't have done his chances much harm after taking 5-79 in the Barbados Cricket Association President's XI innings either. Those wickets did, however, come at over five-an-over.

I suppose Khan basically comes into an equation whereby England either pick two or three from the Kent man, Anderson, Harmison and Sidebottom, depending on whether they choose to go in with four or five bowlers.

It's a tricky conundrum: five bowlers, albeit carrying an injured Flintoff, Harmison, and as it transpired, Swann, couldn't whittle the Windies out in 130 overs in the last Test, but that was on a pretty flat track. Counter that with the stats regarding how few times England have been past 400 before the first innings in Antigua and you have a problem (twice past 365 in 25 Tests, according to YB's excellent article here)

If Swann's elbow doesn't react well over the next few days, I think England will plump for six batsmen, even given the Nottinghamshire spinner's inauspicious start to his Test career with the bat. If it does, then I guess there's a chance of England going in with Ambrose at six, Broad at seven, Swann at eight and Harmison, Anderson and Sidebottom/Khan making up the tail.

Six is undoubtedly a spot too high for Ambrose, and at the moment putting Broad in at seven is also counterproductive - based on the evidence of this series and his form in ODIs, I want Broad to be our major strike bowler, and not have the responsibility of having to contribute 30/40 with the bat. Sure, if he makes those runs, great, and in the future he has the ability to potentially eclipse Flintoff, but not now.

If Swann is out, and even possibly if he is fit, then England will take the more conservative route, and look for overs from Collingwood and/or Pietersen.

Then it's down to who you pick at six as the 'extra' batsman. Bell has had his chance - being dropped after Jamaica proved that the England selectors have had enough of him threatening to make runs at three and not going on, with the odd deceptive big hundred intermittedntly thrown in. Granted, Bell looks good as a batsman, but the figures don't add up - in the top three positions in the order, he averages less than 30, from 4-7, it's over 40.

My concern is that he averages nearly 50 from 19 Test innings at number six. The English selectors have proven with Strauss (recalled on the basis of taking the Sri Lanka tour off) and Collingwood (brought back after a solitary Test out), that they aren't willing to make the established guard work hard for their places back.

That doesn't bode well for Bopara, who on the basis of his potential and the versatility he has shown at County level, plus good form for Essex, as well as his century in this tour match, that he is ready for another Test chance. If England are looking forward to the Ashes, then Bopara is the solution given that he could fill a gap for any injured batsman from 3 to 6 in the order, and he needs Test experience now. Unfortunately, I guess that the selectors would take the 'easy' option of recalling Bell to a position that he enjoys, but in which he has no real future.

As for the bowlers, Broad is the strike bowler, Swann has done well as the spinner, and that leaves two more pace men. Anderson's late spell of 8-3-18-2 in Antigua, and his improvement in the past 12 months, would give him a place in the side for me and, since Harmison blows hot and cold, I would side with a safer option in a four man attack of Sidebottom, who now has overs under his belt, leaving my team for Barbados looking like this:

Strauss (c), Cook, Shah, Pietersen, Collingwood, Bopara, Ambrose (wk), Broad, Swann, Sidebottom, Anderson.

As a footnote, the Bopara & Khan-less England Lions have just finished a two-day match against a New Zealand Emerging Players XI in Lincoln, NZ. Stephen Moore made an encouraging 75, and whilst fellow Worcestershire player Steven Davies, who will replace Ambrose in the England squad for the ODIs, made just 3, Ben Scott, the Middlesex gloveman, contributed 53 from number eight (scorecard).
 
Bollocks. Bell opened and made 72 against Barbados schools XI in the second innings, so he'll play.

I pretty much agree with Rob. There's zero chance of Swann declaring himself unfit, but how fit he actually is, is another issue. As much as I rate Broad, I'm not sure he is a strikebowler - his strikerate is still over 70. I'd rather go for Khan as the more explosive bowler and the more likely to actually last a full game as part of a 4 man attack.

I'd make two changes, Bopara and Khan in for the injured Flintoff and the lacklustre Harmison. England will play safe with Bell and Sidebottom and the ECB have wasted eight business class air-fares in flying Bopara and Khan to the West Indies.
 
Bollocks. Bell opened and made 72 against Barbados schools XI in the second innings, so he'll play.

I pretty much agree with Rob. There's zero chance of Swann declaring himself unfit, but how fit he actually is, is another issue. As much as I rate Broad, I'm not sure he is a strikebowler - his strikerate is still over 70. I'd rather go for Khan as the more explosive bowler and the more likely to actually last a full game as part of a 4 man attack.

I'd make two changes, Bopara and Khan in for the injured Flintoff and the lacklustre Harmison. England will play safe with Bell and Sidebottom and the ECB have wasted eight business class air-fares in flying Bopara and Khan to the West Indies.
I agree 100% with this post. It'd be typical England to play Bell and Sidebottom.
 
Bollocks. Bell opened and made 72 against Barbados schools XI in the second innings, so he'll play.

I pretty much agree with Rob. There's zero chance of Swann declaring himself unfit, but how fit he actually is, is another issue. As much as I rate Broad, I'm not sure he is a strikebowler - his strikerate is still over 70. I'd rather go for Khan as the more explosive bowler and the more likely to actually last a full game as part of a 4 man attack.

I'd make two changes, Bopara and Khan in for the injured Flintoff and the lacklustre Harmison. England will play safe with Bell and Sidebottom and the ECB have wasted eight business class air-fares in flying Bopara and Khan to the West Indies.

As a general rule, I'd agree with the point about Broad not being a strike bowler at the moment, but that seems to be the way that England are utilising him at the moment, and thanks to his 5-85 in Jamaica, he has the best strike rate of any England bowler in this series of a wicket every 42 balls. It can be the only real explanation of why he didn't bowl more on the last day in Antigua.

Playing Khan as our main attacking weapon with the ball would be a massive risk, but one that could pay huge dividends since we need to win this Test. He's likely to be full of confidence after being a late call-up to both this tour and the Indian trip last year.

On the bowling side, I would side with the more experienced Sidebottom (he has been around the team for the past six or seven years, even if he has not always been in it) if he can say that he is fully fit, although I wouldn't be disappointed to see Khan line up in Barbados, but batting-wise, I was massively disappointed to see Bell get runs. I'm sure he's a nice bloke, but that quickfire 72 is just the excuse the selectors needed to pick him again!
 
England win the toss and will bat.

The selectors obviously read SZ, as the team is as nominated by ES a few days ago. (Go Ravi :clap:)

Anyone seen a pitch report. Cricinfo says it's going to be fast and bouncy, which makes you feel a bit sorry for Harmy, who's slogged his guts out on 2 flat decks and then gets left out for one which should suit him.
 
England win the toss and will bat.

The selectors obviously read SZ, as the team is as nominated by ES a few days ago. (Go Ravi :clap:)

Anyone seen a pitch report. Cricinfo says it's going to be fast and bouncy, which makes you feel a bit sorry for Harmy, who's slogged his guts out on 2 flat decks and then gets left out for one which should suit him.

Gayle admits he would have liked to bat first too, but reckons there is a bit in the pitch.
 
Awfully negative team selection picking Sideshow. Where are the wickets going to come from?

We can't rely on the West Indies throwing it away in both innings.
 
Obviously when I suggested my XI, I hadn't seen anything of the pitch, and I can't help but agree that Harmison has been unfortunate to miss out in terms of the fact that a fast, bouncy pitch, then that is exactly what he has been waiting for. However, five wickets in four Tests this winter, and 'only' four the last time he bowled on a fast, bouncy one (at the Oval at the end of last summer) suggest that he may not be the potent weapon that he used to be. I guess he is simply much more inconsistent than he was a few years ago, and we can't wait for the day that he is going to come out and fire.

Interesting to see the stats in most of the papers this morning about Freddie's influence on the England team, and that we have a much higher winning percentage since the 2005 Ashes without him in the side than with him because the rest of the team raise their game to accomodate his absence. Let's hope that it happens again...

(Here's the relevant section from Michael Atheton's column in The Times on Freddie:

Flintoff's status is such that myth dictates England have precious little chance without him. Reality suggests otherwise: since the end of the 2005 Ashes series, Flintoff has missed 21 of England's 43 Tests; with him they have won three and without him they have won ten. None of which is to say that England are a better team without Flintoff; simply that, given his shortage of match-winning contributions, they are no worse without him.)
 
Who knows Groyney. Very nice confident and assured start. 63 for Strauss and 32 for Cook (who just hit only his 2nd ever test match 6) and we are 95-0. Least they havent given away extras, as of yet, which is pretty good as it goes!

Kev
 
Who knows Groyney. Very nice confident and assured start. 63 for Strauss and 32 for Cook (who just hit only his 2nd ever test match 6) and we are 95-0. Least they havent given away extras, as of yet, which is pretty good as it goes!

Kev


Certainly a decent start. Given its a must win for us the scoring rate at these early stages could be crucial and Im glad we have started with intent.
 

ShrimperZone Sponsors

FFM MSPFX Foreign Exchange Services
Estuary MFF2
Zone Advertisers Zone Advertisers

ShrimperZone - SUFC Player Sponsorship

Southend United Away Travel


All At Sea Fanzine


Back
Top