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England tour of the West Indies

Is it going to be the worst quality Ashes from both sides in a long time?


I would think so....though would take that compared to when the Aussies were out of our league and their second string was better than us!! Seeing them lose their last two series and last 5 one dayers makes getting over the England team recent performances that bit more bareable!!
 
Have to agree with YB here. The running of the England team, and ECB matters generally has been shambolic since early 2007. We now seem to be reverting back to the 90's spinlessness.

Makes you appreciate what Fletcher achieved with the team for so many years now. Those in charge (and the press) seemed to think we could get rid of him and build on what he did but that looks dubious now.

I still think we will win this series, but the progress, or lack of, certain players is the most concerning element. Fletcher got the best out of players, now we have players not playing to their potential or developing.

For me, Id axe Collingwood ahead of Bell as I have never thought he had the class. He certainly has the fight and grit, and has carved a good career, but whenever we are 3 down I feel we are in to the allrounders. Obviously Bell is first neck on the line but I wouldnt cry if he was shifted down to 5 to relieve some pressure and Shah came in at 3.

I still think Anderson was unlucky to be dropped as he was seeming to develop quite well and Sidebottom has done notihng in 6 months out of the team to jusify inclusion.

I still think we will win this series, but at a time when the Aussies are down, we are not looking like a team with the neccessary heart, desire and application to win an ashes series...

Exactly what I said to someone when we subsided to 26-7. Remember back to the days before Nasser Hussain was handed the captaincy and Duncan Fletcher the coaches job and that's pretty much what you got - although even then I can remember more battling performances than today being inspired by the likes of Atherton, Stewart and Robin Smith.

I'm getting quite tired of people, either within the squad or in the media, saying that we weren't prepared for each series, whether that be the Stanford 'Super' Series, the Indian ODI tour (I can accept the Test leg having been disrupted) and now this tour.

No, we probably don't have enough warm-up matches, but that's because the players and the ECB don't want them - you can't have your cake and eat it. KP, Freddie, Collingwood, Shah and possibly Bopara will come into the home series with the Windies having just played a month's worth of Twenty20 cricket, so I don't suppose they'll be complaining of a lack of preparation then.

IMHO, the reason we've lost this first Test - putting aside excellent bowling from Benn and Taylor - is because we've completely taken our eye off of the Windies. They have been slowly improving for some time (though not to the extent that they should be bowling England out for 51), and instead of focussing on one series at a time, which is what our recent form suggests we should, we've been looking forward to the Ashes already, especially with Australia struggling.

Well, there's three Tests left to sort things out now. Nick Knight put it well in the immediate aftermath on SKY this evening - all of the England front-line batsmen average over 40 in Test cricket, but how many of them are performing (answer: Strauss in India, KP = 2)? There is only one other frontline batsman on the tour, with a Lions squad about to head to New Zealand, so big changes are unlikely. Shah deserves his opportunity - whether it comes at the expense of Bell or Collingwood in inconsequential. Whoever is left has to stand up and be counted.

English batsmen have gone into series with a complacent attitude of late, and only one of them truly deserves to hold it - KP. It's time for Cook to go and get a century, and he'll only make sure that his place is guaranteed beyond this winter if he goes on and gets a big one: all of his previous seven Test centuries haven't threatened 150, let alone 200.

I still actually think that Strauss is better-positioned to deal with this sort of situation than KP as captain, and at least KP can go out and concentrate on his batting now.

As for the bowlers, Swann outperformed Panesar in India, so deserves his chance should he get it - even if Panesar was unfortunate not to get Sarwan in a testing spell on Thursday evening, he wasn't as unlucky as Benn, who in another Test could've taken ten wickets instead of eight.

Sidebottom probably did enough, fitness prevailing to retain his place, but Anderson should come in for Harmison, who was off-key again. The Oval Test last summer and the ODIs that followed seem a long way away now, don't they?

However, it's the batsmen that really deserve the pasting - the bowlers stuck to their task manfully, and kept the Windies down to a respectable score. Hopefully the fightback starts in Antigua later this week...
 
Disgusted that any Test team anywhere in the world could be bowled out for 51.

Get rid of Bell (PLEASE!!!) Collingwood and that waste of space Panesar and get in Shah, Bopara and Rashid now.

It surely does not get any worse than this.
 
Disgusted that any Test team anywhere in the world could be bowled out for 51.

Get rid of Bell (PLEASE!!!) Collingwood and that waste of space Panesar and get in Shah, Bopara and Rashid now.

It surely does not get any worse than this.


Whilst Panesar has been disappointing, I dont think throwing Rashid in at this stage will necessarily be good for his development. Panesar has not developed as we hoped, and to be outbowled by Benn and Gayle to an extent is damn poor, but I think he has been a victim of his own success and raised expectations. Throughout my England supporting time we have had spinners who have had random good tests, (Tuffers all too sparingly, Croft in Sri Lanka, Giles in Pakistan) but other than that I dont any spinner getting wickets on a regular basis.

Bopara is unlikely to get a go unless there is an injury as he is not part of the tour party, meaning there is only one batsman likely to face the axe. quite imbalanced really when you think we only have 6 specialist batsmen on tour.
 
I was there for that ''memorable'' innings with some other Southend fans, our one regret was that we did n't beat the record. Still 3rd lowest total ever is something to be proud of!

Couple of my mates have flown on to Antigua so hopefully they will have more success in getting the Southend flag on tv, than we had in Kingston.
 
Bring back Robin Smith. Now there was someone who knew how to stand up to any West Indian bowler!

I can only imagine Ian Bell has incriminating pictures of high ranking ECB hierarchy, a kiwi fruit and a pole dancing illegal immigrant as that seems the only valid way he's holding onto his test place. Collingwood can't be far off being dropped too, surely?

The problem Shah has is something that's afflicted England down the ages - jobs for the boys. If your face fits you're in and if it doesn't, well sorry old chap. At the moment Owais is England's second best batsman behind Kevin Pieterson and it defies logic that the England selectors have so far completely ignored form.
 
Bring back Robin Smith. Now there was someone who knew how to stand up to any West Indian bowler!

I can only imagine Ian Bell has incriminating pictures of high ranking ECB hierarchy, a kiwi fruit and a pole dancing illegal immigrant as that seems the only valid way he's holding onto his test place. Collingwood can't be far off being dropped too, surely?

The problem Shah has is something that's afflicted England down the ages - jobs for the boys. If your face fits you're in and if it doesn't, well sorry old chap. At the moment Owais is England's second best batsman behind Kevin Pieterson and it defies logic that the England selectors have so far completely ignored form.

Robin Smith had a decent record against the WIndies, but another South African Englishman Allan Lamb had a better one.

I'm not sure about "jobs for the boys" but I have in the main support central contracts. When these were introduced here we had a coach in Duncan Fletcher who had a plan for the development of the test side (shame about the one day side but...), and he identified players such as Vaughan, Trescothick & Simon Jones as players who had potential to be international players. If you look at the averages of Vaughan & Trescothick when they were selected you may have thought twice.

However since Fletcher left England have gone backwards, and the whole process needs to be looked at, from the selectors down. With an Essex bias it has been a source of amazement to me that James Foster has been consistently overlooked. Most ex players & media judges consider him to be the best keeper in the world, even the dirge on legs Bob Willis agrees. Foster was possibly introduced and given a central contract way too early, but he never let the side down, and most thought he had a good game against the convicts (even Australians) in 2003 when deputising for Stewart. I am further amazed that Stephen Davies & Tiny Tim are selected ahead of him.

Peter Moores good county coach that he was (and maybe again at Lancs) wasn't the man for the job, IMO at the time we should have gone for Tom Moody (a convict yes, but a highly respected ex player & coach). The loss of Troy Cooley was a major **** up by the ECB, he was such an influence on the bowlers, but he was allowed to walk away.

I fully support the fact that a number of good/promising young players have come through recently. Those such as Cook & Stuart Broad should have long international careers ahead of them, although Cook now seems to have a problem getting to 100, something that didn't affect him early in his career. Adil Rashid is on the current tour and appears to be a great talent indeed. Sadly Monty has gone backwards, largely under Moores, but partly through Fletcher who always wanted Ashley Giles in his team.

I am still of the opinion that England will win the current series, despite the debacle in Kingston. However and if they do this shouldn't mask the problems within the camp, and with an Ashes summer coming up these problems need to be solved immediately. It may be a strange series as the convicts are in transition and I suspect that South Africa will win the return series starting in a few weeks, and it may be possible we may see an Aussie team without the piggy eyed one at the helm. I just hope that the ECB grasp the nettle and get a coach in place sooner rather than later.
 
If you ask Robin, though, he'll tell you he's English - he told me that very thing at an Essex v Hampshire one-dayer. Born in South Africa but English parents.

So the negatives have been burnt by the ECB. Shah in for Bell. Anderson in for Harmison. Panesar must be breathing a sigh of relief too.

Flat batting track and Chris Gayle has put England into bat. Big gamble that. He's obviously banking on psychological scars from last weekend, but if you're a batsman that's let the side down a couple of times, surely you go out more determined and want to go out and rectify it as soon as possible?

We might just have been handed a series back .....

 
Well rain has stopped play already and the outfield looks like a sandpit.

Think it is lucky that Harmy has been dropped for this as I think he would have struggled running in on this surface for 5 days. Slightly worried about Flintoff with his tendancy to get injured, he is a big guy and he is going to be absolutely nakered after 5 days on this.

Think the physio is going to be a busy man tonight.
 
If you ask Robin, though, he'll tell you he's English - he told me that very thing at an Essex v Hampshire one-dayer. Born in South Africa but English parents.

So the negatives have been burnt by the ECB. Shah in for Bell. Anderson in for Harmison. Panesar must be breathing a sigh of relief too.

Flat batting track and Chris Gayle has put England into bat. Big gamble that. He's obviously banking on psychological scars from last weekend, but if you're a batsman that's let the side down a couple of times, surely you go out more determined and want to go out and rectify it as soon as possible?

We might just have been handed a series back .....


I think Robin Smith still lives in England since he retired, which is telling for me.

For my thoughts on the England team selection check out this thread.

Looking at the run-ups it was the right call to leave out Harmy, he wouldn't have fancied it. I'd have brought Rashid in for Sidebottom as well though.
 
Looking at the run-ups it was the right call to leave out Harmy, he wouldn't have fancied it. I'd have brought Rashid in for Sidebottom as well though.

Ive not seen the pictures from the game yet but the online commentary really is making a big thing of the run ups being tricky. It did cross my mind that a spinner would have less difficulty compared to the lengthy full length run ups of the pacemen.
 
Ive not seen the pictures from the game yet but the online commentary really is making a big thing of the run ups being tricky. It did cross my mind that a spinner would have less difficulty compared to the lengthy full length run ups of the pacemen.

Well they have spent the last ten minutes having a mothers meeting, every single ball down the media stand end has been shocking, i rekon out of the ten attempts only two have been bowled. It does actually look like a beach that they are running up in. Chris Gayle looks unhappy which is a bit unusual for him.

It goes between grass in some places to pure sand in others so when they stand in it it makes a big hole which goes inches deep.
 
Play abondoned today on safety grounds. Looking at possibilities of changing venues, but I don't see how they can sort the pitch out for later in the week so I would be surprised if this test goes ahead any time soon.

**** up and brewery come to mind.
 
Well they have spent the last ten minutes having a mothers meeting, every single ball down the media stand end has been shocking, i rekon out of the ten attempts only two have been bowled. It does actually look like a beach that they are running up in. Chris Gayle looks unhappy which is a bit unusual for him.

It goes between grass in some places to pure sand in others so when they stand in it it makes a big hole which goes inches deep.

Just been reading the feed from Cricinfo and they say it is dangerous for the bowlers. Surely they could have worked this out during the week by getting some locals to run up and bowl. Sounds absolutely shocking. Surely there is no alternative but to postpone the game. If it went ahead now no bowler is going to have confidence running up.
 
So play is just abandoned for the day - which begs the question why didn't they do anything about this during the week when they knew what condition the outfield was in? It's so beyond stupidity they could referee a Southend v Scunthorpe match.
 

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