Post-Match Thread and Ratings England 0 - 0 Slovenia - UEFA Euro 2024 - Group Stage 25 June

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

one positive is at least we haven't peaked too early...

That's the good news. Things can only get better. At least he can't play the three right backs now. Hopefully the players not showing anything like there club form, will start doing so.

 

[Kris]

The one positive is we won’t play like that from now on. We’ll face better opposition who will attack us, which will provide the likes of Bellingham and Foden with more space to operate.

Having said that, I’ve been really disappointed with Bellingham so far. He’s gone missing since the Serbia game.

I’ve been a huge GS fan but I think this will be his final tournament, regardless of how much further we progress.

It’s a thin line, though. Would we find someone who can potentially take this squad forward, such as Eddie Howe, or a **** like Steve McLaren, who decided he would bin Beckham and fail to qualify for a competition.

 

[BALDY]

If Southgate had been the manager of Mexico he would have been shot!

 

[EastStandBlue]

Starting with the positives, we looked marginally better and more balanced in the first half, and then considerably more balanced in the second with Mainoo on. Compared to Denmark, the football was at times streets ahead.

The midfield, and England in general, looked more fluid and calmer than against Denmark. While you’d expect England to have the majority of possession against a team like Slovenia, having 70% of the ball does tell its own story to a certain extent.

The defensive line was higher up the pitch and while the press was a little disjointed at times, England were able to exert continued periods of pressure.

There are still glaring issues that need fixing though. The biggest problem now is Bellingham for me. He looks some way off the pace and just doesn’t look capable of exerting anything like the dominance he has this season. I do think something else is contributing that - the general lopsided nature of this team - but I think we’ve seen enough in the group games to suggest something’s not right with him physically. Could be general fatigue, he obviously finished the season and arrived to the camp later than anyone else, but it could also be injury. I know he’s delayed surgery to his shoulder.

If Southgate was bolder, he could’ve delayed his introduction to the tournament - it’s not as if we don’t have options in his position - but Bellingham’s now of the aura and status where he’s effectively undroppable.

The biggest issue for me though is how persisting with Foden and Trippier on the left is effectively meaning England now only operate in two-thirds of the pitch, with nothing on the left hand side. Both cut inside, meaning those areas in the final third are so congested that it’s of little wonder Bellingham, and everyone else for that matter, are struggling to find space and penetrate. It’s no coincidence that England best move of the first half came when Foden’s start position was a lot wider, creating the space for Rice to thread the ball inside the full-back for Foden to run onto. If he’d timed his run just a fraction better, England go in 1-0 up and Slovenia have to come out.

England’s best performances under Southgate have been with natural width (and pace) in the channels that create space for Kane and other central players to operate. Southgate’s biggest flaw, for me, is failing to adapt/prepare the side for not having that space.

There’s also the case of poor performances being a domino effect for expectation, and that’s playing out alongside the draw opening up in England’s favour. Each underwhelming commands an even greater response, which ratchets up the pressure further. It’s a perpetual cycle, and one that will ultimately result in something exploding. Southgate’s now referenced this openly in the post-match. It’s understandable - England haven’t had this good a group of players since 2004 - but it’s also undeniably having an effect on the group, the harmony and the approach to the tournament.

The squad have said the best is yet to come. I do generally believe that, and England have started poorly and grown into tournaments before. There were signs last night that something a bit more balanced was coming to the fore. Whether it’s enough to shake off the general negativity hanging over the camp and go the distance in this tournament, I’m not so sure.

 

[Bearded Shrimper]

Southgate has been the most effective England manager of my lifetime. In terms of where we've got in tournaments no one has got close. And I think he did that by lifting the weight of the shirt. Remember the golden generation, won nothing. in 2016 they couldn't make basic 5 yard square passes.
This tournament it looks like the weight of the shirt is back. we've been sloppy and had long spells where we haven't been making those simple passes.
but I think Southgate has also fallen into another England trap of playing the best players not the best team. We have Foden, Bellingham, and Kane all trying to play in the same area. No left back is not his fault given Shaw and Chilwell can't get out of bed without getting injured. So either play Bellingham deeper or drop one of them. for the good of the team. Everyone can see we're too narrow and don't stretch play, but only one man has the power to do anything about it.

One last thing in Southgate's defence which comes back to the weight of the shirt. There's several players he'd have wanted here who have played so bad they couldn't be picked. all experienced players who could help the kids along. Sterling, Rashford, Henderson, Phillips, and Mount are massive for how Southgate wants to play and for off the pitch. big misses

 

[Firestorm]

Its dull , its boring and we are Top of the group , unbeaten and in the knockout stages , with a manager who has the 2nd highest win rate since the national team stopped being picked by a commitee....
Hopefully the group stages will mean that opponents will occasionally not park the bus (unless of course our penalty shootout record comes into their plans) and we ma get more open games.

I still expect us , as I have for months, to go out in the 1/4s but tbh the whole tournament is a tad incidental to me , given the state of our club ,

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

@EastStandBlue , I thought Cole Palmer was outstanding from the moment he came; he played all over the width of the pitch, full of energy and threat.

 

[Bearded Shrimper]

@EastStandBlue , I thought Cole Palmer was outstanding from the moment he came; he played all over the width of the pitch, full of energy and threat.

good shout. looked like he wasn't overtaken by the occasion as well

 

[Clinton Baptiste]

Both Kane and Bellingham look sharp of fitness, both have had long seasons. But both are undroppable so it is a difficult one. Thought Toney or Watkins could have come on alongside Kane, problem is Southgates changes are always like for like. Never changes the system. Maybe this golden generation just arent that good, we looked more threatening and functional when we had the likes of Dier, Lingard, Loftus-Cheek, Mount in the team. I dont think Southgate is able to come up with an effective way of playing since Maguire and Shaws injury, and Sterling also a huge void in the team.

 

[EastStandBlue]

@EastStandBlue , I thought Cole Palmer was outstanding from the moment he came; he played all over the width of the pitch, full of energy and threat.

Yep, wouldn’t disagree with that. Showed a lot of positivity and gave Slovenia something entirely different to defend. My only slight concern is as he’s not a naturally wide player it could be adding yet more congestion if he started the game.

 

[Supa Shrimpa]

@EastStandBlue , I thought Cole Palmer was outstanding from the moment he came; he played all over the width of the pitch, full of energy and threat.

I thought he was the MOTM and he was only on for 20 mins or so. Gordon also looked lively. We've been so missing that pace in wide areas

 

[Supa Shrimpa]

Both Kane and Bellingham look sharp of fitness, both have had long seasons. But both are undroppable so it is a difficult one. Thought Toney or Watkins could have come on alongside Kane, problem is Southgates changes are always like for like. Never changes the system. Maybe this golden generation just arent that good, we looked more threatening and functional when we had the likes of Dier, Lingard, Loftus-Cheek, Mount in the team. I dont think Southgate is able to come up with an effective way of playing since Maguire and Shaws injury, and Sterling also a huge void in the team.

I'd be inclined to rest them both for the next game, but bring them on with 30 mins to spare.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

The final image of Slovenia's players joyfully celebrating their 0-0 draw (which tbf must have seemed like a win from their POV will stay in the mind long after successive England performance(s) in Germany fade.It's something that needs to be addresssed by Southgate's successor.It would appear that some country's players actually appear to enjoy playing for their national team.England's don't.Why?

 

[EastStandBlue]

The final image of Slovenia's players joyfully celebrating their 0-0 draw (which tbf must have seemed like a win from their POV will stay in the mind long after successive England performance(s) in Germany fade.It's something that needs to be addresssed by Southgate's successor.It would appear that some country's players actually appear to enjoy playing for their national team.England's don't.Why?

It might have something to do with the fact that off-colour performances are reacted to by fans lobbing cups of beer at you and pundits calling you **** in the media to flog their podcast business.

In all seriousness, Southgate and this team are victims of their own success. Pressure has built and there’s a greater sense of expectation around this team, the most since 2004 - 2012. They simply haven’t had to handle a situation like this before and it’s evidently creating tension in the camp.

To say that these players don’t enjoy or relish playing for their country though is miles wide of the mark. Rice’s interview with ITV this week is the complete retort to that assumption.

 

[Mr Plow]

The final image of Slovenia's players joyfully celebrating their 0-0 draw (which tbf must have seemed like a win from their POV will stay in the mind long after successive England performance(s) in Germany fade.It's something that needs to be addresssed by Southgate's successor.It would appear that some country's players actually appear to enjoy playing for their national team.England's don't.Why?

I believe they'd also just managed to get past the group stage for the first time in their country's history so you can understand the wild celebrations from them. An incredible achievment for them albeit with the revised format of the competition it is now much easier to qualify for the latter stages then before.

 

[southendkid]

I wonder if Luke Shaw is fit but GS hasn't played him out of caution, having a natural LB would fix a lot of our problems (it might even let Foden play with more freedom).

 

[BoyWonder2]

The final image of Slovenia's players joyfully celebrating their 0-0 draw (which tbf must have seemed like a win from their POV will stay in the mind long after successive England performance(s) in Germany fade.It's something that needs to be addresssed by Southgate's successor.It would appear that some country's players actually appear to enjoy playing for their national team.England's don't.Why?

To suggest that these players don’t enjoy playing for England is complete and utter nonsense

 

[Holy Joe]

I wonder if Luke Shaw is fit but GS hasn't played him out of caution, having a natural LB would fix a lot of our problems (it might even let Foden play with more freedom).

He started training Monday I think - so match fit might be a issue

 

[GrumpyBlue]

Glad I stuck to my decision not to watch - the repeat of `Wire in the Blood` I watched was far more interesting

 

[Swiss Tony]

I believe they'd also just managed to get past the group stage for the first time in their country's history so you can understand the wild celebrations from them. An incredible achievment for them albeit with the revised format of the competition it is now much easier to qualify for the latter stages then before.

Scotland don’t think so.