Echo today

[BlueBeard]

Thats a bit of a sweeping statement Y blue any-one can say that about any player how about Stoke City Sunderland southampton all good wins all matches Francis played in. You can turn statictics around to fit any situation if you do not like a player how about Man u at home Barrett did not play does that make us a better team without him I think not.

 

[Mr. Benedict]

Thats a bit of a sweeping statement Y blue any-one can say that about any player how about Stoke City Sunderland southampton all good wins all matches Francis played in. You can turn statictics around to fit any situation if you do not like a player how about Man u at home Barrett did not play does that make us a better team without him I think not.

But the games you mentioned were individual wins. YB mentioned a period of time: from the West Brom game on the 1st January to the QPR game in February.

 

[Beefy]

I'd agree with Kris' post on the previous page. I quite rate Hooper but it's obvious that he's way down the pecking order now and this is probably the exact reason why he didn't sign a two-year contract in the summer. Francis, for me, is one of the most talented players in the squad. He offers so much more to the side than someone like Lewis Hunt does and whilst his primary job is as a defender you can't ignore the attacking attributes that the two players have. Hunt may be more solid (I'm not convinced of that though) but the games in which he offers anything going forward are few and far between. He had one on saturday, he had one against Vitesse in pre-season, but not many more. At this level we expect to be winning matches and we need our fullbacks to support the men in front of them in that sense. Just being solid may have been enough in the Championship where success is just staying up but it isn't if we want to be a top half team.

 

[Beefy]

But the games you mentioned were individual wins. YB mentioned a period of time: from the West Brom game on the 1st January to the QPR game in February.

It's very harsh to pin that winning run on Francis not being in the side. That was also the time that Lee Bradbury came back in and Alan McCormack had settled into the side.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Thats a bit of a sweeping statement Y blue any-one can say that about any player how about Stoke City Sunderland southampton all good wins all matches Francis played in. You can turn statictics around to fit any situation if you do not like a player how about Man u at home Barrett did not play does that make us a better team without him I think not.

It was hardly a sweeping statement. I explained that I thought we were a better team defensively with Hunt rather than Francis. I then briefly suggested reasons why this was the case, before offering some statistics to support this viewpoint.

As many people on here just state opinion as fact, and offer neither reasoning nor evidence, I'm surprised to see my posts offering reasoning and evidence called up as sweeping unsubstantiated statements!

As for Barrett, we were a better team without him. Our best XI last season was with a fit Prior and Sodje. Those two won pretty much everything in the air, unlike Barrett and Clarke. Prior's and Sodje's experience meant their position was far better and they were able to read play, rather than just make last ditch desperate tackles. Our title winning season also backs this up, when we had Prior and Sodje at the back together we strung together a lot of clean sheets, not something that we did much of last season when we kept getting murdered in the air from crosses and set-pieces!

 

[Jam_Man]

It's very harsh to pin that winning run on Francis not being in the side. That was also the time that Lee Bradbury came back in and Alan McCormack had settled into the side.

Indeed, its always easy to point the finger at one factor but there were numerous reasons why we did better at that point in the seasons. McCormacks arrival probably a far bigger factor than Francis being out, Bradbury holding the ball up, Clarke finally settling in and looking like a decent player etc etc.

Francis wasnt a strong player for last year, he had faults. However he is a young player and the important factor is he got better over the course of the season even in a tough division.

He has faults but I personally cant see why he isnt in the squad at the moment. Hunt does a job but I find it hard to class him as any more than a good utility player.

 

[Mr. Benedict]

He has faults but I personally cant see why he isnt in the squad at the moment. Hunt does a job but I find it hard to class him as any more than a good utility player.

I can only think the reason for this would be that, in Tilly's eyes, Hunt's not done anything to give him reason to drop him.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

I'd agree with Kris' post on the previous page. I quite rate Hooper but it's obvious that he's way down the pecking order now and this is probably the exact reason why he didn't sign a two-year contract in the summer. Francis, for me, is one of the most talented players in the squad. He offers so much more to the side than someone like Lewis Hunt does and whilst his primary job is as a defender you can't ignore the attacking attributes that the two players have. Hunt may be more solid (I'm not convinced of that though) but the games in which he offers anything going forward are few and far between. He had one on saturday, he had one against Vitesse in pre-season, but not many more. At this level we expect to be winning matches and we need our fullbacks to support the men in front of them in that sense. Just being solid may have been enough in the Championship where success is just staying up but it isn't if we want to be a top half team.

Maybe you do need more than solid, but I believe you base being a promotion contender on a solid defence. I don't have confidence that we can be a solid defensive unit with Francis at right-back. He is young, and he may improve, but for the time being I'd stick with Hunt. Its worth remembering that Hunt is vastly superior going forward to Che, who we managed to get promoted with in the team. Whilst Jupp took up good positions, I'm not sure I can ever remember us scoring from a Duncan Jupp cross. I can't recall us scoring from many Simon Francis crosses either, but that might be my alcohol-soaked memory.

 

[Jam_Man]

I dont think Hunt is overly solid either though.

Problem I have with Hunt is his positioning can be awful. The amount of times he was tucked in nearly at a centre back position leaving the left winger or left back with a huge space to exploit.

 

[BrettieAngell]

For me Francis is first choice right-back, Gilbert has looked OK when I've seen him is he injured?

 

[Mr. Benedict]

For me Francis is first choice right-back, Gilbert has looked OK when I've seen him is he injured?

No, I'm pretty sure he's fully fit at the moment. Not sure why he's not been in the side.

 

[BoyWonder2]

Francis has been unhappy at Roots Hall for a little while if my sources are correct.

Think it would be a shame to see Francis leave when he is, in my opinion, the best right back we have.

 

[simac21]

gilbert is injured - heard saturday that francis had a bust up with tilly after the watford match. Is fully fit and wasnt even in the squad saturday.

i'd like to see wing backs when everyone is fit as 5 in midfield caused us problems saturday

team if fit!

Collis

Richards - Hoof
Barrett
Clarke

Hammell - left wing back
Francis - right wing back - gilbert if francis not available

mccormack
maher
bailey

Leon
Charlie Mac - Odiambo - Harrold/ either one doesnt make a difference not gonna score two many goals this year

 

[BoyWonder2]

gilbert is injured - heard saturday that francis had a bust up with tilly after the watford match. Is fully fit and wasnt even in the squad saturday.

i'd like to see wing backs when everyone is fit as 5 in midfield caused us problems saturday

team if fit!

Collis

Richards - Hoof
Barrett
Clarke

Hammell - left wing back
Francis - right wing back - gilbert if francis not available

mccormack
maher
bailey

Leon
Charlie Mac - Odiambo - Harrold/ either one doesnt make a difference not gonna score two many goals this year

Wing-backs simply don't work. 4-4-2 is the way forward. With wing backs we will be woefully exposed down both flanks on the counter attack.

 

[Beefy]

Maybe you do need more than solid, but I believe you base being a promotion contender on a solid defence. I don't have confidence that we can be a solid defensive unit with Francis at right-back. He is young, and he may improve, but for the time being I'd stick with Hunt. Its worth remembering that Hunt is vastly superior going forward to Che, who we managed to get promoted with in the team. Whilst Jupp took up good positions, I'm not sure I can ever remember us scoring from a Duncan Jupp cross. I can't recall us scoring from many Simon Francis crosses either, but that might be my alcohol-soaked memory.

We can't rely on doing things like we did two years ago though because we haven't got Freddy Eastwood anymore. We could be solid then, particuarly at home, and just wait for a moment of brilliance from Eastwood to score or create a goal out of next to nothing. We haven't got that anymore which is why having two full-backs who don't like going forward and three central midfielders stoping other teams from playing but cutting down on our width completely are both questionable tactics, particularly when we come up against teams who don't want to let us play.

 

[Beefy]

I dont think Hunt is overly solid either though.

Problem I have with Hunt is his positioning can be awful. The amount of times he was tucked in nearly at a centre back position leaving the left winger or left back with a huge space to exploit.

I don't think he's overly good at defending either. I think we often presume he is because he doesn't stand-out and because he doesn't tend to go forward but I've never once thought 'Oh good, Lewis Hunt is in the side, that'll stop'em'

I don't know... In fairness from my seat in the far-west end of the South Upper I don't see much of our right-back so maybe he's doing a lot more than I can give him credit for.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

I don't think he's overly good at defending either. I think we often presume he is because he doesn't stand-out and because he doesn't tend to go forward but I've never once thought 'Oh good, Lewis Hunt is in the side, that'll stop'em'

I don't know... In fairness from my seat in the far-west end of the South Upper I don't see much of our right-back so maybe he's doing a lot more than I can give him credit for.

Hunt is a good defender because he reads play. He doesn't stand out like an Adam Barrett stands out, but Barrett stands out because he gets caught out of position and has to make desperation tackles.

Hunt covers his centre-backs superbly, and every so often just steps across into the middle to make important interceptions. Think back to the goal we conceded at Stoke last season, when Clarke went for a header, lost it and Francis failed to cover him. That is precisely the type of thing Hunt does so well, he'd have stepped across with minimum of fuss and nobody would have thought any more of it.

 

[WestRoadShrimper]

Hunt is a good defender because he reads play. He doesn't stand out like an Adam Barrett stands out, but Barrett stands out because he gets caught out of position and has to make desperation tackles.

Hunt covers his centre-backs superbly, and every so often just steps across into the middle to make important interceptions. Think back to the goal we conceded at Stoke last season, when Clarke went for a header, lost it and Francis failed to cover him. That is precisely the type of thing Hunt does so well, he'd have stepped across with minimum of fuss and nobody would have thought any more of it.

Well said.

 

[Shrimper2thecore]

IMO letting Francis go would be a HUGE mistake ..:(

Me too, he is better than Hunt, and I think its probably better than Gilbert given the chance!!

 

[Pubey]

letting francis go would probably be the biggest mistake of tillys career IMO. im sorry but i would be gutted to see arguably our most talented 'youngster' leave. his improvement over last season was one of a few positives from the campaign and having already seen paynter show what he is made of after leaving us, i think we would really regret not giving him a proper chance. if i was SF i would be doing my nut now fully fit and watching hunts displays and still not even making the bench. im all for keeping a winning side but there have been times so far this season when it has already looked like the dark days from last year with "tillys favourites" and it's no surprise that there are rumours of discontent in the squad even when we are doing well