Data Analysis on Players.

[amsemp]

We were refused access to Wyscout because Ron didn't pay the bill lol

As in, we’re still refused access to Wyscout? Or we’ve now paid the bill and can use it again? If we can’t use it then it’s a huge concern.

 

[amsemp]

That's what I thought. The data available might well have painted an adverse picture and halted the process of signing him, in view of his previously uninspiring stats.

Not necessarily the case. xG has become far more prominent in recent years. Player A might have an xG of 20 over 40 games but has scored 5. Player B might have an xG of 5 over 40 games but has scored 20. The data therefore suggests that player A is getting into far more goal scoring positions than player B, who is overperforming to a level that isn’t sustainable (as history shows). There might be a transfer race in the summer for player B, but there’s potentially far more value in player A. If a club can coach player A to convert more chances, you’ve got potentially a very dangerous player on your hands. Movement/runs/intelligence/reading of the game is far more difficult to coach than technique in putting the ball in the onion bag.

 

[Holy Joe]

Not necessarily the case. xG has become far more prominent in recent years. Player A might have an xG of 20 over 40 games but has scored 5. Player B might have an xG of 5 over 40 games but has scored 20. The data therefore suggests that player A is getting into far more goal scoring positions than player B, who is overperforming to a level that isn’t sustainable (as history shows). There might be a transfer race in the summer for player B, but there’s potentially far more value in player A. If a club can coach player A to convert more chances, you’ve got potentially a very dangerous player on your hands. Movement/runs/intelligence/reading of the game is far more difficult to coach than technique in putting the ball in the onion bag.

Evidence at Roots Hall so far this season may suggest otherwise

 

[Tommy2holes]

Please don't go making any comparisons to the analytical approach used by Matthew Benham @ Brentford or Tony Bloom @ Brighton.

Both are basically prodigies when it comes to working with numbers - Benham from his background in finance, and Bloom from his betting/poker.

Critically, both are also minted and well capable of financing Premier League clubs. We, on the other hand, haven't got a pot to **** in. We are by far the largest club in this league, but barely have the buying power of a Wealdstone or Ebbsfleet.

I think it's this point that people find hard to reconcile.

In the old world of football. The best supported clubs have the best budget.

Unfortunately, that means little as incredibly wealthy people can just buy a club and throw silly money at it, FGR being a prime example.

 

[fbm]

We are by far the largest club in this league, but barely have the buying power of a Wealdstone or Ebbsfleet.

Oldham might disagree with that in terms of pedigree. Also, whilst our crowds are currently bigger, an Oldham side at the top of the league will probably near fill their 13500 capacity ground.

 

[Bearded Shrimper]

Nathan Ralph has the most complete long passes per 90 at 3.4, just ahead of Gubbins at 3.1 and Crowther at 2.8.

Here's a Jack Bridge heatmap for the season if you're interested:

View attachment 35234

And that's just on a free to access, public app.

which one? I'm tempted to start using football data as a way to improve my R coding abilities (currently on a level with Bonne's goalscoring abilities)

 

[Liam AAS]

For me, the purpose of this is that we're trying to ensure value. We threw money at duds on out way out of the football league, this process is about risk management and ensuring that players are suitable for the club.

One of the downside of conservative approaches is that swift decision making is difficult. Let's see how much business is done early in the summer...

 

[southendkid]

The seasons before they got promoted they were losing 30 and then 50 odd million quid.

You've misread their accounts. The numbers you are quoting are losses before player sales.

They made good money selling players in those two seasons and when that's factored in their losses in the two seasons before going up were only £8.5m and £9.1m respectively. Considering the two seasons before they went up were the two seasons hit by COVID that doesn't scream splashing the cash to me, a lot of championship clubs chasing promotion gamble with much bigger losses than that.

Brentford financial results announced

Annual report and financial statements for the year ended 30 June 2021 published

www.brentfordfc.com

 

[JAL]

Analysed the food I made this morning, the data wasn’t quite adding up so didn’t eat it.

The Southend United way

 

[WestyReturns]

Movement/runs/intelligence/reading of the game is far more difficult to coach than technique in putting the ball in the onion bag.

Not for me. Finishing is the hardest thing in the game. Having that composure Infront of goal is far harder to coach in my opinion.

 

[WestyReturns]

Stats can easily be manipulated to support or disregard a decision. Will be interesting to see how this works long term.

What id love to know is if a player is identified and hits all the metrics and is available then will the consortium spend the bucks to bring them in? Ie they see as a profitable asset.

It's no good saying you've got a model if you don't support it. It goes both ways.

 

[fudgebucket]

When I read that, I did raise an eyebrow.

I’m no technophobe, but I do wonder whether these automated systems can actually be useful in this industry. I don’t know enough about it being used in football to either rubbish or praise it (although I was tempted to insert the Sean Dyche meme until @hlane17 beat me to it )

We do, however, know that the tried and tested method of recruitment based on scouting/hunches/recommendations/reputation can be quite hit and miss. Overall, I think our recruitment under the current regime has been quite good (admittedly this season, probably not so much).

The question is, will these computer analytics find us the next Pepple? Or more concerning, will these analytics see us miss out on the next Pepple because the target hasn’t hit enough of the KPI’s

I would urge all the sceptics on this thread to google "liverpool fc data science", and read what Liverpool have been up to. link (a bit old but very relevant none the less).

As I said on another thread, it is not just a few noddy stats and KPI's that get assessed.

The field of data science in sports is a lot more subtle and nuanced than we all think.

What you can do with the data is very clever and is used to help guide the Players, Coaching Staff, Back Room, Groundsman, Scouts, and Manager.

It is not to replace them.

I doubt that Kev is annoyed at the data approach, he most likely takes the data and uses it intelligently.

 

[Booma]

Analysed the food I made this morning, the data wasn’t quite adding up so didn’t eat it.

The Southend United way

But if it was old and past its sell by date you’d have eaten it

The Southend United Way

 

[Rattus Norvegicus]

I think it's this point that people find hard to reconcile.

In the old world of football. The best supported clubs have the best budget.

Unfortunately, that means little as incredibly wealthy people can just buy a club and throw silly money at it, FGR being a prime example.

And there are many clubs earning income all year round through other activities. We (Southend United) are a long way behind in this regard.

The good news is that with a city population on the door step & local support the potential income is there if the club can tap into it.

 

[Leigh_Seasider]

And there are many clubs earning income all year round through other activities. We (Southend United) are a long way behind in this regard.

The good news is that with a city population on the door step & local support the potential income is there if the club can tap into it.

People are already Discussing about stuff. Hey COSU, you know that fan zone you're gonna build? It's rubbish!! Data analysis? Rubbish!! Developing the run down old ground? Waste of time!! It's a tough crowd to win over. It seems as well as doing all the off pitch stuff we also need to be playing exciting attacking football and winning the league at the exact same time.

 

[Cricko]

People are already Discussing about stuff. Hey COSU, you know that fan zone you're gonna build? It's rubbish!! Data analysis? Rubbish!! Developing the run down old ground? Waste of time!! It's a tough crowd to win over. It seems as well as doing all the off pitch stuff we also need to be playing exciting attacking football and winning the league at the exact same time.

All football fans are a tough crowd to win over, this is nothing new. We all want to win The Champions League.

 

[Leigh_Seasider]

All football fans are a tough crowd to win over, this is nothing new. We all want to win The Champions League.

If the team were doing better, I'm sure COSU would be getting more kudos for what they're doing off field. The team is number 1, 2 and 3 for lots of people and that's understandable but we also want to make RH a decent place to come and we want to engage the local community/bank their dollars. Who'd buy a football club!

 

[dusterman]

People are already Discussing about stuff. Hey COSU, you know that fan zone you're gonna build? It's rubbish!! Data analysis? Rubbish!! Developing the run down old ground? Waste of time!! It's a tough crowd to win over. It seems as well as doing all the off pitch stuff we also need to be playing exciting attacking football and winning the league at the exact same time.

It is a tough crowd but we are angry at the wrong people (COSU). We’re mourning the near death of a club. (Faux) Bereavement brings anger and a whole lot more with it. Just need to get through this sticky patch (bad transfer time to do business, not perceived progressive football, etc) and move forward. Get the right players not the quick and fast ones and we’ll be set up for success.

 

[TheSouthendUnitedRunner]

I think it's this point that people find hard to reconcile.

In the old world of football. The best supported clubs have the best budget.

Unfortunately, that means little as incredibly wealthy people can just buy a club and throw silly money at it, FGR being a prime example.

No they don’t.

The football club with the owners with the deepest pockets have the best budgets.

Man Utd have the highest average attendance in this country, but the budget is behind the like of Man City, Chelsea and even Newcastle although FFP won’t let them spend the money others have.

Even in our division, our budget is behind the likes of Barnet, FGR, York, Oldham and so on.

Ultimately, it should be about clubs generating enough of their own revenue, meaning they aren’t solely reliant on their owners to fund them.