Data Analysis on Players.

[Yorkshire Blue]

Surely decision making would be delegated to some extent within the committee. And if you are on said committee you are making a commitment that involves being available? Few people at that level work 9-5, as had been said technology also means there should be good availability.

If you can’t commit the time then let someone else sit on the committee?

If there is someone we really want to sign, we are in negotiations, there is another club involved, and the agent says give us an extra £100 per week and we will sign but we need to know in the next hour as the other club have a deadline, then the idea we would have to walk away because one of the committee is in the wrong time zone is, I hope, a complete nonsense. I’m sure contingency is built in. Without doubt many player negotiations are dynamic and can change quickly and unexpectedly as demonstrated all to recently.

I suspect the committee agrees the targets and then delegates (probably to TL) to close the deal. The issue is more likely to arise when a club/agent says we can’t let X go but are you interested in Y?

The time zone thing is a real issue. It’s currently 2:30am in Seattle and 6:30pm in Hong Kong. Come 7am in Seattle it’s 11pm in HK. They are very limited windows when everyone will be awake and these guys may already have calls/meetings scheduled then for their day jobs. You can do stuff via WhatsApp but you’re probably then a day behind everyone else. It may resolve itself with time but with a new investor you don’t want to **** them off by continually making decisions without them, you need to build up the trust first.

 

[londonblue]

Exactly. The one thing I would highlight is that as you say it’s an extra step. That could suggest a slower process. If it stops bad decisions and helps make good ones that is not bad. But the process needs to ensure we are not slow to decisions and surely the data piece can be kicked off early and run in parallel. In which case it might actually save time. Please let’s not leave this extra step to the very end. Justin was a Project Manager so I’m sure this would be a red flag.

Re the mention elsewhere of a Director of Football. A no for me. One there’s the cost. Two I see loads of clubs with a Director of Football consistently sacking managers and leaving the Director of Football in place. They don’t seem to take responsibility for results yet want to decide who the manager gets as tools for the job. Manager goes they should both go. That would sharpen the mind.

I think it’s better to think of the manager as a long term recruitment and have succession planning within the management team. Let’s not have multiple cooks who when it goes wrong all point at each other.

My thought anyway.

That to me is exactly the point. I can't see us relying purely on data. The way I see it working is that a database will allow the management/scouting team to access the data they need quicker. They can keep that database up to date as part of their BAU activities. It's not run in parallel as such, it is kept up to date all the time with new players added, some players removed with flags for the type of player they are, where they're currently playing, when their contract ends, etc. etc. Basically it becomes a very sophisticated version of the whiteboard.

When KM et all say they need a player, they plug in their requirements and the database gives them a list of possibilities, together with their attributes. This doesn't mean a) the data is taking over or b) KM can't recruit someone that isn't on the list. It will make decisions far quicker.

(It's very similar to the BBC and their "obituary department". They maintain a database of just about every famous person you can imagine so when that person dies the news teams instantly have access to the detail in order to construct an article.)

 

[Kenny]

I'm fascinated to know what level of data we'll get at this level and below in the pyramid, I can't imagine there's too many heat maps, KM run and attempted long passes.

 

[Yer Blues]

I'm fascinated to know what level of data we'll get at this level and below in the pyramid, I can't imagine there's too many heat maps, KM run and attempted long passes.

I think you'll be surprised. Look at the level of detail @ShrimperStats goes into

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

NOBODY ON THE TRANSFER COMMITTEE KNOWS FOOTBALL!!!!

I never said they weren't, KM and JS are on the committee, but they don't sign it off on their own

 

[Yer Blues]

I did tell you!

 

[meerkat54]

This data analysis is fine on paper. But I can see when the type of player that is identified, time is critical to sign that player. If we are going through another quango type committee to get approval to sign a player. We are quite likely to miss out. Another level of bureaucracy is going to restrict and delay our incomings.
Hope I’m wrong, but this is SUFC we are talking about.

 

[Stan33]

When I read that, I did raise an eyebrow.

I’m no technophobe, but I do wonder whether these automated systems can actually be useful in this industry. I don’t know enough about it being used in football to either rubbish or praise it (although I was tempted to insert the Sean Dyche meme until @hlane17 beat me to it )

We do, however, know that the tried and tested method of recruitment based on scouting/hunches/recommendations/reputation can be quite hit and miss. Overall, I think our recruitment under the current regime has been quite good (admittedly this season, probably not so much).

The question is, will these computer analytics find us the next Pepple? Or more concerning, will these analytics see us miss out on the next Pepple because the target hasn’t hit enough of the KPI’s

We r still in the bottom half of the National League?

 

[Gremlin]

We r still in the bottom half of the National League?

A bit of a random question!
Yes we are. You could easily check this online yourself.

 

[GBJ]

We r still in the bottom half of the National League?

I see

 

[Holy Joe]

I suspect the committee agrees the targets and then delegates (probably to TL) to close the deal. The issue is more likely to arise when a club/agent says we can’t let X go but are you interested in Y?

The time zone thing is a real issue. It’s currently 2:30am in Seattle and 6:30pm in Hong Kong. Come 7am in Seattle it’s 11pm in HK. They are very limited windows when everyone will be awake and these guys may already have calls/meetings scheduled then for their day jobs. You can do stuff via WhatsApp but you’re probably then a day behind everyone else. It may resolve itself with time but with a new investor you don’t want to **** them off by continually making decisions without them, you need to build up the trust first.

Do we know that Jason in HK is on the committee? As yes, that window between west coast US and Asia is small

 

[kentblues]

I suspect the committee agrees the targets and then delegates (probably to TL) to close the deal. The issue is more likely to arise when a club/agent says we can’t let X go but are you interested in Y?

The time zone thing is a real issue. It’s currently 2:30am in Seattle and 6:30pm in Hong Kong. Come 7am in Seattle it’s 11pm in HK. They are very limited windows when everyone will be awake and these guys may already have calls/meetings scheduled then for their day jobs. You can do stuff via WhatsApp but you’re probably then a day behind everyone else. It may resolve itself with time but with a new investor you don’t want to **** them off by continually making decisions without them, you need to build up the trust first.

Clearly having someone based in Seattle and someone based in HK on a committee that may need to urgently decide to make an offer for a player who is chased by other clubs is, shall we say, sub-optimal. There again I assume they both wanted to be on the committee so in extremis one of them may have an interrupted night sleep. Note I say in extremis..

 

[SeldomSeenShrimper]

Ok ... My bad

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Do we know that Jason in HK is on the committee? As yes, that window between west coast US and Asia is small

We don’t for sure. But he is one of just two who owns more than 25% and transfers are a major outgoing (and potentially a major source of revenue if we get it right) so there’s a decent chance he’s involved.

This may be the type of thing that evolves as time goes on and they see what works and what doesn’t work but if he’s stumping up the money (and he seems the major money man given his holding) he’s likely to want a say.

 

[Smiffy]

Do we know that Jason in HK is on the committee? As yes, that window between west coast US and Asia is small

I believe he is, yes. Maybe someone from the Trust Q&A can confirm as it was apparently spoken about last night.

 

[Holy Joe]

This may be the type of thing that evolves as time goes on and they see what works and what doesn’t work but if he’s stumping up the money (and he seems the major money man given his holding) he’s likely to want a say.

Possibly, but if it were me I'd think about what value I could add to the process, as a non football expert, I'd suggest I could add very little to the individual decision making of signing player x or player y. Where I could add value, or protect my investment, is by setting criteria/boundaries within which football experts could operate with autonomy

 

[SS9_Shrimper]

This data analysis is fine on paper. But I can see when the type of player that is identified, time is critical to sign that player. If we are going through another quango type committee to get approval to sign a player. We are quite likely to miss out. Another level of bureaucracy is going to restrict and delay our incomings.
Hope I’m wrong, but this is SUFC we are talking about.

Time should be okay if you are looking at a player from National S/N, as all games are on Wyscout etc, so you could extract that quite easily.

The problem will be if they're from any lower than that level, where the info isn't available. I'm guessing you'd have to approach the club in question for permission to have a copy of the footage from games, then build your profile based on that, which will take a lot more time. We all know that a camera doesn't show the whole situation also, so there is that to add to the equation.

 

[manor15]

I'm fascinated to know what level of data we'll get at this level and below in the pyramid, I can't imagine there's too many heat maps, KM run and attempted long passes.

Nathan Ralph has the most complete long passes per 90 at 3.4, just ahead of Gubbins at 3.1 and Crowther at 2.8.

Here's a Jack Bridge heatmap for the season if you're interested:



And that's just on a free to access, public app.

 

[Napster]

Time should be okay if you are looking at a player from National S/N, as all games are on Wyscout etc, so you could extract that quite easily.

The problem will be if they're from any lower than that level, where the info isn't available. I'm guessing you'd have to approach the club in question for permission to have a copy of the footage from games, then build your profile based on that, which will take a lot more time. We all know that a camera doesn't show the whole situation also, so there is that to add to the equation.

We were refused access to Wyscout because Ron didn't pay the bill lol

 

[GBJ]

We were refused access to Wyscout because Ron didn't pay the bill lol

That doesn’t sound like him