Coronavirus (Non-Politics)

[GNH]

Again, the list of people who fall into the vulnerable category, includes a massive percentage of taxpayers. If they were forced to shield, do you think this would benefit the economy?

That is the reason why this idea of “protecting the vulnerable, and let the rest of us get on with our lives”, is a non-starter.

No it's not an ideal situation but then nothing will be.

If potentially vulnerable people still want to contribute by working and paying tax then let them, I'm not advocating locking vast swathes of people away because they could get seriously ill.

Where is the ability in the powers that be to apply a little common sense to everything? The premise of a decision either being right or wrong with no middle ground is bizarre

 

[GBJ]

So that’s the Welsh returning to a national lockdown and the last I heard, the Northern Irish were set to follow suit.

How long before ours comes into force? With half-term starting next week, will Johnson be gracing our TV screens at some point this week...

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

1.Thank you for taking to time to highlight my grammatical error bold, not sure what that achieves?

Also for the detailed response and debate as to what my views on this matter are rather than jumping to biased conclusions...……..Oh wait....

Don't even think about lecturing me on my moral compass,2. if you think that providing support and help to those most at risk, while allowing other demographics of society to return to some sort of normality is wrong then say so in a reasoned way.

Pathetic

1.There's a linguisitic difference between an error and a mistake that you might want to read up on.Hint you've used error incorrectly here.It would be more correctly described as a mistake.

2.Suggest you check out post 3,451 in this thread for my previous comments on this point.

 

[Chalky]

So that’s the Welsh returning to a national lockdown and the last I heard, the Northern Irish were set to follow suit.

How long before ours comes into force? With half-term starting next week, will Johnson be gracing our TV screens at some point this week...

Absolutely mental. 7 day rolling average of deaths is 5 and cases have began levelling off. So of course the natural thing to do is destroy mental well being and the economy for 2 weeks which will prove absoluetely nothing as it's impossible to stop a virus in endemic transmission.

Clown society

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

So that’s the Welsh returning to a national lockdown and the last I heard, the Northern Irish were set to follow suit.

How long before ours comes into force? With half-term starting next week, will Johnson be gracing our TV screens at some point this week...

Friday seems to be a strong possibility.

 

[GBJ]

No it's not an ideal situation but then nothing will be.

If potentially vulnerable people still want to contribute by working and paying tax then let them, I'm not advocating locking vast swathes of people away because they could get seriously ill.

Where is the ability in the powers that be to apply a little common sense to everything? The premise of a decision either being right or wrong with no middle ground is bizarre

Firstly, I wholeheartedly agree that there isn’t an ideal solution to the situation.

Secondly, I apologise as I think I’ve maybe missed your point, but how do you protect vulnerable people, if they’ve still got to work? That’s just upholding the status quo, isn’t it?

As for the powers that be utilising some common sense, I’d say that ship has sailed.

 

[GNH]

1.There's a linguisitic difference between an error and a mistake that you might want to read up on.Hint you've used error incorrectly here.It would be more correctly described as a mistake.

2.Suggest you check out post 3,451 in this thread for my previous comments on this point.

You really are something special aren't you?

Not wasting my time on any more of this.

 

[GNH]

Firstly, I wholeheartedly agree that there isn’t an ideal solution to the situation.

Secondly, I apologise as I think I’ve maybe missed your point, but how do you protect vulnerable people, if they’ve still got to work? That’s just upholding the status quo, isn’t it?

As for the powers that be utilising some common sense, I’d say that ship has sailed.

Agree with most of this.

When dealing with the hundreds of people I manage we had several who we're part of the 'shielding' scenario. I think that this was something that was working reasonably well.

Weirdly the times that they were having to shield were less prevalent for Covid than they are now, but the rules no longer apply. Go figure!

 

[GBJ]

Friday seems to be a strong possibility.

I would think so. Although I’m sure there will be a few whispers leaked before then.

Absolutely mental. 7 day rolling average of deaths is 5 and cases have began levelling off. So of course the natural thing to do is destroy mental well being and the economy for 2 weeks which will prove absoluetely nothing as it's impossible to stop a virus in endemic transmission.

Clown society

Are cases levelling off? I was under the impression that they were rising exponentially in Wales. The latest figures would indicate that they are very much on the upward swing of a second wave, no?

It’s good to see the death rate isn’t following suit, but it’s still an obvious concern that as transmission rates & cases rise, it increases the possibility of the death rate rising too.

Aside from simply saying to the general public, it is what it is, and you’ll have to take your chances, I’m not sure what else can be done atm.

My feeling is, we had the chance to get it right with the first lockdown, and we failed. I can only see us making the same mistakes again & that’s why I wouldn’t be in favour of a second lockdown.

 

[Chalky]

I would think so. Although I’m sure there will be a few whispers leaked before then.



Are cases levelling off? I was under the impression that they were rising exponentially in Wales. The latest figures would indicate that they are very much on the upward swing of a second wave, no?

It’s good to see the death rate isn’t following suit, but it’s still an obvious concern that as transmission rates & cases rise, it increases the possibility of the death rate rising too.

Aside from simply saying to the general public, it is what it is, and you’ll have to take your chances, I’m not sure what else can be done atm.

My feeling is, we had the chance to get it right with the first lockdown, and we failed. I can only see us making the same mistakes again & that’s why I wouldn’t be in favour of a second lockdown.

They have risen in last 2 days but from a weekly rolling average they have stayed levelled from the 6th October.

I agree it's a concern that cases are rising, but we also know respiratory disease always rise this time of year.

And I disagree with your last point, I used to think we had the chance to get it right. But lockdowns are pointless with endemic virus's. Wales after 2 weeks will simply go back outside and cases will rise again. Endemic transmission never goes away.

I agree with your older posts about isolating the vulnerable is not as black and white as some people make it seem. But we have to come up with another plan that isn't persistent lockdowns. A vaccine may never happen and even if it does, they are already speculating that it would only have 50% effectiveness.

 

[GBJ]

Agree with most of this.

When dealing with the hundreds of people I manage we had several who we're part of the 'shielding' scenario. I think that this was something that was working reasonable well.

Weirdly the times that they were having to shield were less prevalent for Covid than they are now, but the rules no longer apply. Go figure!

I can’t say the same unfortunately, because - at a rough guess - I’d say at least half of my workforce would fall into the vulnerable category.

We couldn’t adopt a shielding scenario, because A) all of those people need to work, to live, and B) It would be impossible to work remotely, so without those “vulnerable” staff, the business would literally cease trading overnight.

 

[Leigh_Seasider]

They have risen in last 2 days but from a weekly rolling average they have stayed levelled from the 6th October.

I agree it's a concern that cases are rising, but we also know respiratory disease always rise this time of year.

And I disagree with your last point, I used to think we had the chance to get it right. But lockdowns are pointless with endemic virus's. Wales after 2 weeks will simply go back outside and cases will rise again. Endemic transmission never goes away.

I agree with your older posts about isolating the vulnerable is not as black and white as some people make it seem. But we have to come up with another plan that isn't persistent lockdowns. A vaccine may never happen and even if it does, they are already speculating that it would only have 50% effectiveness.

The only way around the lockdowns, without a vaccine, is a properly working test & trace system. Reducing the amount of people needing to be tested buys them time I guess. But they can’t keep having lockdowns as they have to compensate businesses and employees so the economy doesn’t crash completely.. and they can really only close schools in holiday times. I don’t see they have any other option than to find another solution unless they’re planning to print money. As well as that, people will just continue to flout the rules which are impossible to enforce. The lockdown in April worked as people were scared and it was new .. so they stuck to it. Now it seems a lot more will “take their chances” and question the wisdom.

 

[Holy Joe]

So that’s the Welsh returning to a national lockdown and the last I heard, the Northern Irish were set to follow suit.

How long before ours comes into force? With half-term starting next week, will Johnson be gracing our TV screens at some point this week...

I think for some areas of the country half term starts today - so opportunity for a 2 week lockdown with least disruption has probably passed

 

[GBJ]

They have risen in last 2 days but from a weekly rolling average they have stayed levelled from the 6th October.

I agree it's a concern that cases are rising, but we also know respiratory disease always rise this time of year.

And I disagree with your last point, I used to think we had the chance to get it right. But lockdowns are pointless with endemic virus's. Wales after 2 weeks will simply go back outside and cases will rise again. Endemic transmission never goes away.

I agree with your older posts about isolating the vulnerable is not as black and white as some people make it seem. But we have to come up with another plan that isn't persistent lockdowns. A vaccine may never happen and even if it does, they are already speculating that it would only have 50% effectiveness.

The trouble is, the October figure - even if it had levelled out - is significantly higher than it has/had been across the summer months, which of course brings about more risk of transmission and added strain to health services.

Bottom line, that levelled figure is still much higher than what we need it to be, to remain stable and sustainable.



As for lockdowns, they clearly do work, as we saw back in March/April/May. Without it, the figures would have been far, far higher than what we ended up with.

The trouble is, you MUST have a competent exit strategy, which IMO, we never did. Our guidelines and instructions were as clear as mud, with several of them being contradictory, and unenforceable. And that is on top of a track and trace system that is down right pathetic.

Add into the mix several high profile examples of the rules being flouted, and our post-lockdown course was doomed from the beginning.

 

[Holy Joe]

. But lockdowns are pointless with endemic virus's. Wales after 2 weeks will simply go back outside and cases will rise again. Endemic transmission never goes away.

I think the point of lockdowns is to 'flatten the curve', to slow transmission rather than prevent - the potential for queues of people outside hospitals is politically too high a cost.

 

[GNH]

I can’t say the same unfortunately, because - at a rough guess - I’d say at least half of my workforce would fall into the vulnerable category.

We couldn’t adopt a shielding scenario, because A) all of those people need to work, to live, and B) It would be impossible to work remotely, so without those “vulnerable” staff, the business would literally cease trading overnight.

It wasn't people who are classed as vulnerable, they were deemed at risk and written to by the Gov and told to shield. I'm sure you know this already as it would no doubt have impacted on you the first time it happened.

I know this is an arbitrary system and there will always be people either side of the line arguing they should be on the other but the line has to be drawn somewhere.

Either way something needs to change as continuing on this lockdown, open up, lockdown, open up cycle will leave us with the worst of both worlds. A destroyed economy and mentally unfit population alongside a still endemic virus that's will come back time after time. It's this conversation that needs to be taking place right now, but it's one that will be kicked down the road to avoid upsetting voters.

 

[GBJ]

It wasn't people who are classed as vulnerable, they were deemed at risk and written to by the Gov and told to shield. I'm sure you know this already as it would no doubt have impacted on you the first time it happened.

I know this is an arbitrary system and there will always be people either side of the line arguing they should be on the other but the line has to be drawn somewhere.

Either way something needs to change as continuing on this lockdown, open up, lockdown, open up cycle will leave us with the worst of both worlds. A destroyed economy and mentally unfit population alongside a still endemic virus that's will come back time after time. It's this conversation that needs to be taking place right now, but it's one that will be kicked down the road to avoid upsetting voters.

Yes that was a weird few days. We were told on a Wednesday(?) that all vulnerable people had to go home, which left us in chaos. Two days later, those people were back in work again.

We were told that it wasn’t compulsory, but was advisory. Looking back, that was the start of the poor communication and confusion.

Agree with the rest of your post.

 

[GBJ]

I think for some areas of the country half term starts today - so opportunity for a 2 week lockdown with least disruption has probably passed

Yep, at this stage, that’s pretty much par for the course

 

[jackj13]

Caution needs to be taken however the cure is soon becoming worse than the cause. There are currently 2 people in my partners pub, Monday is usually one of their busiest days of the week. The hospitality industry is being crippled. If we're not careful there will be no economy to go back to.

 

[Member]

View attachment 13081

Is casual racism ok now?