"Champions" League

[canveyshrimper]

At the end of the day, a World Cup is nothing more than a knock-out cup competition. Messi is 24 years old and is already the top scorer in the history of Barcelona. He's scored 163 goals in the last three seasons. That's an incomprehensible number of goals. Maradona never had even a fraction of that goal threat.

Maradona was amazing in 86 and 90 (when surrounded by an otherwise very mediocre Argentina side). Winning Serie A and getting to back to back World Cup Finals pretty much single-handedly are amazing achievements but week in, week out Messi delivers in such a way that I think we sometimes take it for granted and don't appreciate what a special talent it is that we're watching.

As is the "Champions" League. I'm not denying Messi's achievements and incredible goal scoring prowess, but he's being called the greatest player ever, and IMO he's nowhere near that. I'd argue that Cristiano Ronaldo equally as prolific over the last few years is a better player.

As you have said Maradona was amazing carrying an average Argentina side to two finals (winning one) and a not a great Napoli side to Seria A.

 

[Bluesmanager]

Didn't watch last night, canvey sent me a text in code but i honestly didnt have a clue what he was on about

Chel$ki and SKY are fundamentally guilty of ruining the game i love with the money they've tossed at it

Listening to all the bollocks on SSN it sounds like they could be without 4 or 5 players for the final ... meh

Good. I ****ing hate those dirty Russian *******s - I only wish that Braca had absolutely trashed thier bloody arses and made them want to remove themselves from pro football for all eternity, never to return.

 

[Beefy]

As is the "Champions" League. I'm not denying Messi's achievements and incredible goal scoring prowess, but he's being called the greatest player ever, and IMO he's nowhere near that. I'd argue that Cristiano Ronaldo equally as prolific over the last few years is a better player.

As you have said Maradona was amazing carrying an average Argentina side to two finals (winning one) and a not a great Napoli side to Seria A.

Just out of curiousity, "nowhere near that" because there are loads of better players or because Maradona was that much better than Messi is?

 

[Jam_Man]

Any player who scores 63 goals in a a season has to be classed as amazing. 41 goals in 33 league games and people still cant accept what a talent the guys is and without a doubt the best player in the world at the moment.

He is only 23 as well.

Ronaldo too has been incredible, 6 goals short of Messi. Unfortunately his record at Man Utd is poor in comparison to what he and Messi are doing in Spain!

 

[Reg Martin]

Hopefully last night's result will mean fewer people on the streets of England wearing Barcelona shirts.

 

[Beefy]

On the broader topic of the Champions League, I'm not a fan of it at all, usually don't watch it and I think it is far more responsible for what BLUEBLOOD earlier called "fundamentally ruining the game (we) love" than either Sky or Roman Abrahamovic are, however last night's was an epic game and one of a number of great matches in this season's competition (Arsenal vs AC Milan being the first which springs to mind). I'm very much looking forward to the final this year.

 

[canveyshrimper]

Just out of curiousity, "nowhere near that" because there are loads of better players or because Maradona was that much better than Messi is?

To be fair I should have said "at the moment" Messi definitely has the potentail to get the greatest ever tag. But IMO Pele, Best (George not Billy), Moore, Cruyff, Maradona and Beckebauer were better.

 

[canveyshrimper]

Any player who scores 63 goals in a a season has to be classed as amazing. 41 goals in 33 league games and people still cant accept what a talent the guys is and without a doubt the best player in the world at the moment.

He is only 23 as well.

Ronaldo too has been incredible, 6 goals short of Messi. Unfortunately his record at Man Utd is poor in comparison to what he and Messi are doing in Spain!

Playing Devils Advocate is it easier to score in the Spanish League than the Premiershite? I'd say the PL is marginally more competitive than La Liga.

 

[Jam_Man]

Playing Devils Advocate is it easier to score in the Spanish League than the Premiershite? I'd say the PL is marginally more competitive than La Liga.

Well when you see players scoring 40 goals you do have to wonder, however they are both scoring plenty in the Champions league too. Although Barca had a pretty easy group

 

[canveyshrimper]

On the broader topic of the Champions League, I'm not a fan of it at all, usually don't watch it and I think it is far more responsible for what BLUEBLOOD earlier called "fundamentally ruining the game (we) love" than either Sky or Roman Abrahamovic are, however last night's was an epic game and one of a number of great matches in this season's competition (Arsenal vs AC Milan being the first which springs to mind). I'm very much looking forward to the final this year.

Spot on, and IMO is's a competition for mediocrity. Champions League for starters is a complete misnomer, since when has finishing 2nd, 3rd or 4th been deemed as calling a club "Champions"? Secondly clubs who fail to qulaify for the "Champions" League group stages are parachuted into the ludicrous Europa League. And finally 3rd place cubs in the CL group stages are then allowed to go into the Europa League knockout stages. Utterly ridiculous and a reward for failure.

The so called "Champions" League should revert to the old European Cuo but that won't happen as it's a cash cow to many clubs and UEFA.

 

[Beefy]

Well when you see players scoring 40 goals you do have to wonder, however they are both scoring plenty in the Champions league too. Although Barca had a pretty easy group

Ronaldo scored 42 in his penultimate season in England as well. Plus Messi hasn't just scored against rubbish teams. His five against Leverkusen last month had everything. Didn't he score four in one game against Arsenal a couple of seasons ago?

 

[Beefy]

Spot on, and IMO is's a competition for mediocrity. Champions League for starters is a complete misnomer, since when has finishing 2nd, 3rd or 4th been deemed as calling a club "Champions"? Secondly clubs who fail to qulaify for the "Champions" League group stages are parachuted into the ludicrous Europa League. And finally 3rd place cubs in the CL group stages are then allowed to go into the Europa League knockout stages. Utterly ridiculous and a reward for failure.

The so called "Champions" League should revert to the old European Cuo but that won't happen as it's a cash cow to many clubs and UEFA.

The biggest problem with it is that it's fostered a situation whereby big clubs in England, Spain and Italy see finishing fourth in their league as a success. Then it showers such financial rewards on Clubs in it that it makes it extremely difficult for anyone else to crash the party. Like every other change that UEFA have brought in in recent years, up to and including Financial Fair Play, at its heart its solely about making it very difficult for any upcoming Club to challenge the established order of things.

It's why I don't have an issue with the likes of Chelsea or Man City throwing money at buying a place at the top of the league. The other clubs have created a situation whereby that is the only way any other club can ever win the league.

 

[canveyshrimper]

The biggest problem with it is that it's fostered a situation whereby big clubs in England, Spain and Italy see finishing fourth in their league as a success. Then it showers such financial rewards on Clubs in it that it makes it extremely difficult for anyone else to crash the party. Like every other change that UEFA have brought in in recent years, up to and including Financial Fair Play, at its heart its solely about making it very difficult for any upcoming Club to challenge the established order of things.

It's why I don't have an issue with the likes of Chelsea or Man City throwing money at buying a place at the top of the league. The other clubs have created a situation whereby that is the only way any other club can ever win the league.

Indeed and there will be some Russian clubs challenging this in the next year or to, probably starting with the unpronounceable place (Anzhi whaterver) where Eto'o went and Hiddinck is manager. Arsenal, Spurs and Newcastle will need to look over their shoulders because if Chelsea win it they'll grab England's 4th spot.

 

[Pubey]

The biggest problem with it is that it's fostered a situation whereby big clubs in England, Spain and Italy see finishing fourth in their league as a success. Then it showers such financial rewards on Clubs in it that it makes it extremely difficult for anyone else to crash the party. Like every other change that UEFA have brought in in recent years, up to and including Financial Fair Play, at its heart its solely about making it very difficult for any upcoming Club to challenge the established order of things.

It's why I don't have an issue with the likes of Chelsea or Man City throwing money at buying a place at the top of the league. The other clubs have created a situation whereby that is the only way any other club can ever win the league.

Fantastic post, completely agree.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

"You can't win them all but you can sure lose them all"(or at least three in a row).

BFC 2-2 Chelski .:hilarious::happy::happy::happy::happy::happy::happy::happy::happy::happy::happy::happy:

 

[OldBlueLady]

Cech's ridiculous yellow last night seemed to come about because of the Barcelona multi-ball approach, and I think it's something the FA should be taking up on behalf of the English clubs. Cech was correctly going to retrieve the ball from where it was behind the goal, not expecting someone to launch a replacement ball that they expected him to use. Surely there are rules about this multi-ball thing that say a 2nd ball shouldn't be thrown onto the pitch while the original is still in easy reach? There were numerous times during last night's game when there were 2 balls on the pitch because of over zealous ball boys.

 

[markw]

as much as i hate him, ronaldo has scored 154 goals in 163 games for real madrid (according to http://www.footballdatabase.eu/football.joueurs.cristiano.ronaldo.2058.en.html) that is incredible

 

[Pubey]

 

[BLUEBLOOD]

Truly one of the worst penalties i've EVER seen (and yes i've seen all of Englands failures over the years before Barna starts frothing at the mouth)

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Truly one of the worst penalties i've EVER seen (and yes i've seen all of Englands failures over the years before Barna starts frothing at the mouth)

Moi? :angel: (Shrimpero has a nice "Put it all behind you" photo of Stuart Peace, after he finally managed to net a decisive penalty for England, on his kitchen wall). :winking: