Brexit negotiations thread

[Tangled up in Blue]

Come on *** you first, what is the 30% that Corbyn likes about Brexit. Labour won't get into power if its supporters drown out the leader because you don't like what he says.

Interestingly, 75% of Labour members voted remain in the referendum.Granted some 25% of Labour voters voted leave though.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Not after the EU breaks up there won't.

Like the rest of Europe your desperate to see Brexit fail for you own selfish reasons. Its to late, with more extreme right wing movements on the march in the East the EU is a sinking ship.

After the break up, Catalonians will of course demand independence so you and your family will have to decide whether to support those wonderful and proud people or once again send in the thugs from Madrid.

There is no chance, whatsoever, of the EU breaking up,either now or in the forseeable future.

Likewise,there's no realistic chance of Catalonia getting independence from the rest of modern, democratic Spain.Eventually the Catalans will just have to accept that.After all,according to them, they've been fighting for independence for two hundred years now.Which would indicate to an impartial observer, that perhaps they've been doing something wrong.:winking:

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

So ***, do you think its a good idea that Britian will be able to refuse entry to a convicted EU killer or child rapist after Brexit.

At the moment they can come here and use the NHS etc and in the case of that poor 14 year old girl from West London murder another victim....Is that acceptable under any circumstances?

I think you must be mixing me up with someone else – I have never called for murderers to be able to walk free, as I’ve stated on other threads I back life imprisonment for murderers and rapists.

We have lots of restrictions that we can place on immigration within the EU but our governments have chosen not to use those options. I don’t know if there is a specific reason for that, I suspect that the administration of such things is deemed too costly / time consuming. Don’t forget that border control was massively reduced under May’s time as Home Secretary. The whole ‘take back control of our borders’ slogan would be more convincing if we actually used the border control legislation that is currently at our disposal. Like everything else related to the civil service its effectiveness has been hit by austerity. This is a bit like the blue (black?) passports – we are fighting for things that we can already have but chose not to.

‘The Tories want a bad Brexit’ – if in hindsight that feels like a foolish thing to say you can just retract it. But it would be a shame as it’s the most original statement on this thread so far.

 

[londonblue]

that comes across as a bit of a sulky reply, I've written my views and back them up with a valid argument but I have a different conclusion to you.

But I agree about not debating it with you, we are just saying things we have already said many times before.

Not sulky at all. Just making a point that to say ********* did nothing wrong is amazingly blinkered. You really do say the same things over and over again...

 

[londonblue]

Interestingly, 75% of Labour members voted remain in the referendum.Granted some 25% of Labour voters voted leave though.

Which pretty much reflects *********'s comment about being 70% for the EU. Coincidence? Not in my book. A failed opportunity to say what he should have said? Absolutely.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Not sulky at all. Just making a point that to say ********* did nothing wrong is amazingly blinkered. You really do say the same things over and over again...

nowhere have I said Corbyn did nothing wrong (obviously everyone involved in the Remain campaign needed to up their game (myself included) as we lost a very winnable contest - I was merely addressing your 70% point and saying it was more honest than the other big quotes from the campaigns.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Not sulky at all. Just making a point that to say ********* did nothing wrong is amazingly blinkered. You really do say the same things over and over again...

As I remember it, the best you could say was that he was totally lukewarm about remain. It proved a good (if temporary) ploy for last years GE, he was able to face both ways and pick up votes from remainers and leavers. As with May, his time of fudging is coming to an end both leaders are going to be required to put their cards on the table and face up to the consequences in each of their respective party's

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

My belief in the logic of a hard Brexit or no Brexit at all may appear strange to many on here. So, here's a simple question that I'd like those in favour of a soft Brexit to answer.

Exactly what benefits would a soft Brexit bring over staying in the EU, if you exclude the argument that it would be less harmful to the economy than a hard Brexit?

 

[londonblue]

nowhere have I said Corbyn did nothing wrong (obviously everyone involved in the Remain campaign needed to up their game (myself included) as we lost a very winnable contest - I was merely addressing your 70% point and saying it was more honest than the other big quotes from the campaigns.

Finally. So, please expand on what you think ********* could have done better. Up until now, your inability to see your leader as fallible has been North Korean-esque.

Every post of yours where we discuss the failings of the remain campaign focus on the tories and everyone else. I don't recall you ever being even handed and accepting ********* could have been better. At least now we're in agreement.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Finally. So, please expand on what you think ********* could have done better. Up until now, your inability to see your leader as fallible has been North Korean-esque.

Every post of yours where we discuss the failings of the remain campaign focus on the tories and everyone else. I don't recall you ever being even handed and accepting ********* could have been better. At least now we're in agreement.

Not finally, consistently.
Yes we can agree that all involved in the Remain campaign should have performed better.
No I have never said he is infallible. I canvassed for Kinnock, Blair, Brown, Miliband, Corbyn – so whatever ideas you have about me fitting into a niche image of a ‘Corbynista’ are wrong so feel free to drop that.

Yes – the referendum was called by the Tories, the media focussed on two sides of the Tory lies, and the Tories are the ones making a hash of what comes after. So more than any other political party I hold the Tories responsible for Brexit. Sorry if that doesn’t sit well with you but whether you are in the Brexit good or Brexit bad camps I’d be surprised if anyone didn’t see them as largely responsible for what has happened in UK politics over the last 2 years – they have been in power so call the shots and take the bulk of the blame or the praise.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Which pretty much reflects *********'s comment about being 70% for the EU. Coincidence? Not in my book. A failed opportunity to say what he should have said? Absolutely.

Labour's position on Brexit is already different from that of The Tories,as it was in the recent GE.It's likely to become even more marked once a deal is finally struck.

My belief in the logic of a hard Brexit or no Brexit at all may appear strange to many on here. So, here's a simple question that I'd like those in favour of a soft Brexit to answer.

Exactly what benefits would a soft Brexit bring over staying in the EU, if you exclude the argument that it would be less harmful to the economy than a hard Brexit?

um....none.

 

[londonblue]

Labour's position on Brexit is already different from that of The Tories,as it was in the recent GE.It's likely to become even more marked once a deal is finally struck.




um....none.

Of course it will. The tories will (for the most part) back the deal they agree, and labour will try to score political points by opposing it. Tell us something we don't know.

 

[londonblue]

Not finally, consistently.
Yes we can agree that all involved in the Remain campaign should have performed better.
No I have never said he is infallible. I canvassed for Kinnock, Blair, Brown, Miliband, Corbyn – so whatever ideas you have about me fitting into a niche image of a ‘Corbynista’ are wrong so feel free to drop that.

Yes – the referendum was called by the Tories, the media focussed on two sides of the Tory lies, and the Tories are the ones making a hash of what comes after. So more than any other political party I hold the Tories responsible for Brexit. Sorry if that doesn’t sit well with you but whether you are in the Brexit good or Brexit bad camps I’d be surprised if anyone didn’t see them as largely responsible for what has happened in UK politics over the last 2 years – they have been in power so call the shots and take the bulk of the blame or the praise.

So, tell me what ********* could have done differently.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

So, tell me what ********* could have done differently.

Corbyn? Called out the Tory lies in a way that more people realised they were lies. I don't know how achievable that was as he gets little say in what happens in the printed press. Maybe Momentum could have been used more effectively as they were very good at social media and pulling together canvassers in 2017. I think maybe those campaigning tools weren't as well honed in 2016.

 

[rigsby]

I think you must be mixing me up with someone else – I have never called for murderers to be able to walk free, as I’ve stated on other threads I back life imprisonment for murderers and rapists.

We have lots of restrictions that we can place on immigration within the EU but our governments have chosen not to use those options. I don’t know if there is a specific reason for that, I suspect that the administration of such things is deemed too costly / time consuming. Don’t forget that border control was massively reduced under May’s time as Home Secretary. The whole ‘take back control of our borders’ slogan would be more convincing if we actually used the border control legislation that is currently at our disposal. Like everything else related to the civil service its effectiveness has been hit by austerity. This is a bit like the blue (black?) passports – we are fighting for things that we can already have but chose not to.

‘The Tories want a bad Brexit’ – if in hindsight that feels like a foolish thing to say you can just retract it. But it would be a shame as it’s the most original statement on this thread so far.

Nice use of the 'straw man' argument.

So back to my question do you think stopping people who have been convicted of murder or rape in their own EU country from having the right to enter the UK is a good or bad thing ?.....Is that something Labour would support as part of their Brexit plans?

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Nice use of the 'straw man' argument.

So back to my question do you think stopping people who have been convicted of murder or rape in their own EU country from having the right to enter the UK is a good or bad thing ?.....Is that something Labour would support as part of their Brexit plans?

no straw man, just answering your question - some people do that

Rapists and murderers should not be allowed in the country - as I stated above
We already have the ability to bar them - as I stated above

Specific Labour policy on that in regard to Brexit I doubt would exist at this point as they are not in government so wouldn't have as much detail in their policy. They have the 6 points issued, which you have rejected, so I doubt more detail will appeal to you as you have already rejected their broader policy on Brexit.

The 'bad deal' that you thought the government are aiming for - do you include bad policy on murderers and rapists as something they are looking to include in that? Do you just mean a bad trade deal or overall?

 

[rigsby]

no straw man, just answering your question - some people do that

Rapists and murderers should not be allowed in the country - as I stated above
We already have the ability to bar them - as I stated above

Specific Labour policy on that in regard to Brexit I doubt would exist at this point as they are not in government so wouldn't have as much detail in their policy. They have the 6 points issued, which you have rejected, so I doubt more detail will appeal to you as you have already rejected their broader policy on Brexit.

The 'bad deal' that you thought the government are aiming for - do you include bad policy on murderers and rapists as something they are looking to include in that? Do you just mean a bad trade deal or overall?

Really can you explain how that works ?

We did send back homeless people but that has been ruled illegal by the EU. So they can all come back and spend the summer in Southend. Do you think that's a good idea?....Or do you think we could do with some more diversity in the High street.

 

[rigsby]

My belief in the logic of a hard Brexit or no Brexit at all may appear strange to many on here. So, here's a simple question that I'd like those in favour of a soft Brexit to answer.

Exactly what benefits would a soft Brexit bring over staying in the EU, if you exclude the argument that it would be less harmful to the economy than a hard Brexit?

There is no such thing. It was just a term invented by the remoaners in the media.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Really can you explain how that works ?

We did send back homeless people but that has been ruled illegal by the EU. So they can all come back and spend the summer in Southend. Do you think that's a good idea?....Or do you think we could do with some more diversity in the High street.

I'm not an expert I'm afraid.
If you use twitter look up @femi_sorry - he has telephone discussions with Farage on LBC and has detailed various immigration restrictions within the EU regulations that we are neglecting to use but would achieve much of what the Leave campaign were calling for. He is the expert, I'm just some bloke on a football forum, but I can point you in the right direction so I hope that is if use to you.

 

[rigsby]

I'm not an expert I'm afraid.
If you use twitter look up @femi_sorry - he has telephone discussions with Farage on LBC and has detailed various immigration restrictions within the EU regulations that we are neglecting to use but would achieve much of what the Leave campaign were calling for. He is the expert, I'm just some bloke on a football forum, but I can point you in the right direction so I hope that is if use to you.

The EU overruled Britain over the homeless situation. Do you think they should have the right to come here ?