Brexit negotiations thread

[kaymac]

'Europe wants to teach us a lesson' exemplifies the misguided Europhobic language and hostile rhetoric that has all but guaranteed a disastrous outcome. No reasonable person would expect to leave an organisation and still expect to retain the advantages of belonging to it. Even if some kind of fudge is cobbled together, the Uk will by definition, not be enjoying the same benefits outside as in, the only question is the degree of damage that will be inflicted on the UK economy by this act of self harm.

Self-harm? Are you such a happy soul by nature or did it come after a deal of practice?

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I’ve given up on this thread Keymac - I think it can be summed up by the wise words of two famous prophets: que sera sera; and haters gon’hate

 

[rigsby]

'Europe wants to teach us a lesson' exemplifies the misguided Europhobic language and hostile rhetoric that has all but guaranteed a disastrous outcome. No reasonable person would expect to leave an organisation and still expect to retain the advantages of belonging to it. Even if some kind of fudge is cobbled together, the Uk will by definition, not be enjoying the same benefits outside as in, the only question is the degree of damage that will be inflicted on the UK economy by this act of self harm.

You have sent weeks using Anglophobic language.....Jumping off cliffs, pulling up drawbridges, blue passports etc.

The reason, you cant sell Europe to anyone. None off you remoaners can. Every one of project fears predictions of 2 years ago hasn't happened....Not even close.

So your guarantee of a disastrous outcome, care to explain?

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I’ve given up on this thread Keymac - I think it can be summed up by the wise words of two famous prophets: que sera sera; and haters gon’hate

not just this thread but the whole process - still have no idea what Irish border policy May will plump for but its not going to be one that is agreeable to the EU and the DUP so she will still be stuck. Same issues since she lost Cameron's majority, the only thing that has moved forward is the current date.

 

[Ricky Otto]

Every one of project fears predictions of 2 years ago hasn't happened....Not even close.

Neither has brexit?? Regardless of your stance you can't dismiss a prediction on something when the catalyst hasn't happened. It's like if someone said" if you jump off that cliff you'll die" and then you don't jump off the cliff and say they are wrong because you are alive

 

[blues exile]

You have sent weeks using Anglophobic language.....Jumping off cliffs, pulling up drawbridges, blue passports etc.

The reason, you cant sell Europe to anyone. None off you remoaners can. Every one of project fears predictions of 2 years ago hasn't happened....Not even close.

So your guarantee of a disastrous outcome, care to explain?

Every single credible forecast predicts an adverse outcome to leaving the EU. How could it be otherwise when you leave an organisation which has delivered such benefits for so long. Already there has been a de facto devaluation of the pound against the euro and the dollar leading to price inflation and a High Street crisis which cannot be explained away simply by internet shopping. The number of household names that have gone to the wall is ever increasing. There is nothing remotely Anglophobic about lamenting the self harm that a small ill informed, brainwashed but vocal section of the electorate is set on doing to its own future in the empty rhetoric of 'taking back control of our borders and our laws'. Those of us with a wider perspective than a little Englander mentality can clearly see the damage about to be unleashed. The result of pound shop demagogues like Farage being treated as though they were serious politicians and the gutter press of Murdoch and The Mail fuelling the flames of xenophobia for their own self interest.

 

[Benfleet A1]

That way you could become one of those expats who spend their life sneering at Britain because deep down they regret their decision and need to feel better about themselves.

I bit like sneering at people with differing views.

 

[rigsby]

Every single credible forecast predicts an adverse outcome to leaving the EU. How could it be otherwise when you leave an organisation which has delivered such benefits for so long. Already there has been a de facto devaluation of the pound against the euro and the dollar leading to price inflation and a High Street crisis which cannot be explained away simply by internet shopping. The number of household names that have gone to the wall is ever increasing. There is nothing remotely Anglophobic about lamenting the self harm that a small ill informed, brainwashed but vocal section of the electorate is set on doing to its own future in the empty rhetoric of 'taking back control of our borders and our laws'. Those of us with a wider perspective than a little Englander mentality can clearly see the damage about to be unleashed. The result of pound shop demagogues like Farage being treated as though they were serious politicians and the gutter press of Murdoch and The Mail fuelling the flames of xenophobia for their own self interest.

Thanks Exile......I couldn't have proved my point better.

So back to the question why cant you sell the EU to the small vocal, little Englander, xenophobic, brainwashed, ill informed 52% majority winners of the referendum?

 

[rigsby]

Neither has brexit?? Regardless of your stance you can't dismiss a prediction on something when the catalyst hasn't happened. It's like if someone said" if you jump off that cliff you'll die" and then you don't jump off the cliff and say they are wrong because you are alive

Brexit benefits are always going to be long term. Project fear was claiming emergency budgets, house price collapse, immediate job losses (they have gone up, as have wages) and WW3

 

[blues exile]

Thanks Exile......I couldn't have proved my point better.

So back to the question why cant you sell the EU to the small vocal, little Englander, xenophobic, brainwashed, ill informed 52% majority winners of the referendum?

The answer is very simple. Years and years of sustained anti European propaganda, most of which is so laughably untrue, disseminated by the mass circulation gutter press with its own agenda, the rise of populist, racist demagogues with their appeal to the basest instincts of xenophobia, nationalism and fake patriotism have all contributed to gaining a very small majority in favour of Brexit. Sadly, it is my generation mainly responsible for the impending catastrophe, who want to turn the clock back to some supposed golden age of their youth in the fifties that never really existed and have been conditioned to blame Europe for problems caused by their own governments. By doing so they have blighted the future of the younger generation, who are already worse off than their parents even before it happens.

 

[rigsby]

The answer is very simple. Years and years of sustained anti European propaganda, most of which is so laughably untrue, disseminated by the mass circulation gutter press with its own agenda, the rise of populist, racist demagogues with their appeal to the basest instincts of xenophobia, nationalism and fake patriotism have all contributed to gaining a very small majority in favour of Brexit. Sadly, it is my generation mainly responsible for the impending catastrophe, who want to turn the clock back to some supposed golden age of their youth in the fifties that never really existed and have been conditioned to blame Europe for problems caused by their own governments. By doing so they have blighted the future of the younger generation, who are already worse off than their parents even before it happens.

So what are the benefits of the EU ?

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Every one of project fears predictions of 2 years ago hasn't happened....Not even close.

So the letter I received today at work

"In September 2017 [name removed] (the "Company") announced its proposals to move its office from London, UK to Dublin, Ireland as part of its Brexit contingency planning.

We are writing to update you in connection with the Company's plans.

The Company has now formalised its proposals... It is expected that it will take effect in January 2019."

Is that just project fear?

Because I received another one like that from a different company on Friday that was moving to Luxembourg in December.

And another one on Thursday from another company that was relocating to Dublin.

Is that also Project Fear?

 

[blues exile]

So what are the benefits of the EU ?

I could write reams about the trading benefits, workers rights, collective security, travel, cultural coperation, consumer protection, food standards, environmental issues eg clean beaches, etc etc but I know this would be a waste of time.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

So the letter I received today at work

"In September 2017 [name removed] (the "Company") announced its proposals to move its office from London, UK to Dublin, Ireland as part of its Brexit contingency planning.

We are writing to update you in connection with the Company's plans.

The Company has now formalised its proposals... It is expected that it will take effect in January 2019."

Is that just project fear?

Because I received another one like that from a different company on Friday that was moving to Luxembourg in December.

And another one on Thursday from another company that was relocating to Dublin.

Is that also Project Fear?

But Turkey still aren't members so not all project fear predictions were true.

 

[rigsby]

I could write reams about the trading benefits, workers rights, collective security, travel, cultural coperation, consumer protection, food standards, environmental issues eg clean beaches, etc etc but I know this would be a waste of time.

All the best workers rights were won before we joined the EU. We have gone backwards in the last 30 years

Security is worse under the EU, especially when you have countries like Belgium having 'turn a blind eye' policy towards terrorism. Open borders mean less safety

We could travel before the EU and we will after....No change. Culture is better when countries keep their national identity. Moore people around Europe are realising this that's why they are rejecting the EU.

As for consumer protection food standards and environmental there is absolutely no reason we cant have higher standards. If you Labour supporters stopped fearing the Tories and made yourselves electable by backing Brexit all that could happen.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

But Turkey still aren't members so not all project fear predictions were true.

Surely that was leave propaganda,Farage et al etc, rather than "project fear" remainers as such?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

All the best workers rights were won before we joined the EU. We have gone backwards in the last 30 years

Security is worse under the EU, especially when you have countries like Belgium having 'turn a blind eye' policy towards terrorism. Open borders mean less safety

We could travel before the EU and we will after....No change. Culture is better when countries keep their national identity. Moore people around Europe are realising this that's why they are rejecting the EU.

As for consumer protection food standards and environmental there is absolutely no reason we cant have higher standards. If you Labour supporters stopped fearing the Tories and made yourselves electable by backing Brexit all that could happen.

One change being talked about seriously if the UK leaves the EU on WTO terms would be the necessity for UK citizens to register for a visa online to visit EU countries.That would cost and would certainly be a change from before.

Certainly no reason why we couldn't have higher standards than the EU on a whole host of areas but much more likely that we won't.Singapore here we come.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Surely that was leave propaganda,Farage et al etc, rather than "project fear" remainers as such?

yes, Farage's project fear

maybe I was being too subtle with that dig

 

[rigsby]

One change being talked about seriously if the UK leaves the EU on WTO terms would be the necessity for UK citizens to register for a visa online to visit EU countries.That would cost and would certainly be a change from before.

Certainly no reason why we couldn't have higher standards than the EU on a whole host of areas but much more likely that we won't.Singapore here we come.

I really hope the EU do make it hard to travel. Like a trade war, a travel war would see the UK as big financial winners With a £10b saving in EU contributions and another £10b in overseas aid. We could make travel by train free and every family to have free accommodation for holidays in Britain.

In fact lets have a 12 month ban on any British passport holders entering Spain,,,,,,Your country would be bankrupt in 6 months but at least you would have plenty of accommodation for all the migrants heading your way......Have you seen the acid attacks on Spanish guards in those EU enclaves in North Africa?

 

[rigsby]

yes, Farage's project fear

maybe I was being too subtle with that dig

Yes Brexit finally made the EU see sense and shelve their attempt to include Turkey...…..Brexit the vote that saved the EU from itself.

Still look up the battle of Navarino (its that time of year) we saved Greece from genocide once before.