Brexit negotiations thread

[Yorkshire Blue]

The treaties subsequently signed-off by PM's leaves more than a lot to be desired, notably that of Lisbon.

Whilst I can see that you might quite reasonably consider powers enacted by executives rather than legislatures sub-optimal, how will this improve with Brexit which will just be a power grab from the Executive over items that previously had European checks and balances in place through the democratically elected European Parliament?

We're already seeing that the government's plans (if we can be generous enough to describe them as that) involve giving power to ministers and not Parliament.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

No need to worry yourself Barna....Jezza has a plan :winking:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/23/labour-would-leave-single-market-jeremy-corbyn

Yeah I saw him explaining it on Marr yesterday.And it's a very good plan too.Given that the British people did vote to leave the EU (by a narrow majority).

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Whilst I can see that you might quite reasonably consider powers enacted by executives rather than legislatures sub-optimal, how will this improve with Brexit which will just be a power grab from the Executive over items that previously had European checks and balances in place through the democratically elected European Parliament?

We're already seeing that the government's plans (if we can be generous enough to describe them as that) involve giving power to ministers and not Parliament.

This is precisely the problem,of course,that the government will have trying to get their reform bill through parliament.

Be sure that Labour will fight it,clause by clause if necessary from September, in order to force another general election,which this time Jeremy Corybn will win, after his narrow defeat in June.

 

[kaymac]

Oh dear me, Corbyn. Idealist rather than realist....

 

[kaymac]

Whilst I can see that you might quite reasonably consider powers enacted by executives rather than legislatures sub-optimal, how will this improve with Brexit which will just be a power grab from the Executive over items that previously had European checks and balances in place through the democratically elected European Parliament?

We're already seeing that the government's plans (if we can be generous enough to describe them as that) involve giving power to ministers and not Parliament.

So you approve of the Lisbon Treaty and all it entailed (entails) ? "Democratically elected European Parliament" ? Well, I didn't vote for such a 'Parliament' to run the UK.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

This is precisely the problem,of course,that the government will have trying to get their reform bill through parliament.

Be sure that Labour will fight it,clause by clause if necessaryfrom September, in order to force another general election,which this time Jeremy Corybn will win, after his narrow defeat in June.

I'm not at all sure that Labour will fight it.

Corbyn's pro-Brexit and seems keen to encourage hard Brexit to destroy the Tories.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I'm not at all sure that Labour will fight it.

Corbyn's pro-Brexit and seems keen to encourage hard Brexit to destroy the Tories.

I'm sure they'll fight any legislation where Labour can land a knock out blow on the Tories in the Commons.Don't think that DUP bung majority of seven will last too long after September.

Don't agree with you that Corybn or Labour are "keen to encourage hard Brexit",either.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

So you approve of the Lisbon Treaty and all it entailed (entails) ? "Democratically elected European Parliament" ? Well, I didn't vote for such a 'Parliament' to run the UK.

I didn't vote for the treaties that saw us join the UN, NATO, ECHR, Paris Agreement, Kyoto Protocol or any other treaty because under British constitution Parliament has no role in entering into treaties.

I did get to vote in the election that chose the democratic representative for the treaty of Lisbon and the Paris Agreement.

If you think that is undemocratic the fault is with the British system and not the European one.

ps I do get to vote in the European Parliamentary elections, and my vote carries more weight there as it is proportional representation and I'm not penalised for voting in a safe seat.

 

[callan]

I didn't vote for the treaties that saw us join the UN, NATO, ECHR, Paris Agreement, Kyoto Protocol or any other treaty because under British constitution Parliament has no role in entering into treaties.

I did get to vote in the election that chose the democratic representative for the treaty of Lisbon and the Paris Agreement.

If you think that is undemocratic the fault is with the British system and not the European one.

ps I do get to vote in the European Parliamentary elections, and my vote carries more weight there as it is proportional representation and I'm not penalised for voting in a safe seat.

You have had the opportunity to vote on membership of the EU though haven't you?

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

You have had the opportunity to vote on membership of the EU though haven't you?

But not membership of the Single Market or Customs Union.

 

[kaymac]

So you approve of the Lisbon treaty I take it?

 

[kaymac]

....and with that I've now said my bit having earlier elaborated to our Catalonia-based fellow supporter my stance and why. The posting of links to latest Brexit-related 'news' on here on a regular basis, as hiked from certain sections of the national press, be it good, bad or indifferent news (depending on one's political leanings) feels more like an attempt at a points-scoring exercise and not reasoned debate hence it interests me not one iota. Reasoned and considered debate and exchange of views is another thing altogether......

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

....and with that I've now said my bit having earlier elaborated to our Catalonia-based fellow supporter my stance and why. The posting of links to latest Brexit-related 'news' on here on a regular basis, as hiked from certain sections of the national press, be it good, bad or indifferent news (depending on one's political leanings) feels more like an attempt at a points-scoring exercise and not reasoned debate hence it interests me not one iota. Reasoned and considered debate and exchange of views is another thing altogether......

This is Shrimperzone you know.:winking:

 

[kaymac]

Touche, senor. Flltting between the various threads so frequently kinda does in the 'ol brain from time to time.... :winking:

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-40712573

You're all borrowing too much.It's not good for the economy you know.:winking:

 

[kaymac]

Not all of us.... :winking:

Far too easy to borrow these days, not so easy to repay. A 'must have', materialistic society that apparently knows no limits for some....

 

[Lord Football]

But not membership of the Single Market or Customs Union.

Yes you did. You may not have noticed at the time, but you did vote on our continued membership of both the Customs Union and the Single Market. Some of us did try and tell everyone this, but we were drowned out by the "don't listen to experts" comments from the likes of Michael Gove and Nigel Farage pointing towards a bus.

Forget everything else about our membership to the EU, the absolute key thing was our continued ability to trade freely across Europe and across the world as a member of the EU.

And this is why dumbing down the most complex issue imaginable into a "yes / no" vote was at best complete madness on behalf of David Cameron or sheer incompetence.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-40726213

Membership of the single market not ruled out by Labour.This is the voice of a reasoned opposition.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Yes you did. You may not have noticed at the time, but you did vote on our continued membership of both the Customs Union and the Single Market. Some of us did try and tell everyone this, but we were drowned out by the "don't listen to experts" comments from the likes of Michael Gove and Nigel Farage pointing towards a bus.

Forget everything else about our membership to the EU, the absolute key thing was our continued ability to trade freely across Europe and across the world as a member of the EU.

And this is why dumbing down the most complex issue imaginable into a "yes / no" vote was at best complete madness on behalf of David Cameron or sheer incompetence.

I'd add crass arrogance to Cameron's attributes ................he really didn't believe for one minute that remain would lose the referendum, I think he boasted to European leaders that the result was 'in the bag.' :smile:

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-40726213

Membership of the single market not ruled out by Labour.This is the voice of a reasoned opposition.

'reasoned' or rather confused opposition? As the article suggests, you can't continually sit on the fence, trying to please both sides.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-corbyn-labour-time-to-make-his-mind-up-a7861271.html