Breaking News Accounts Released 2011/12

[kentblues]

You have no hope of understanding the end state as it is all now totally tied up with the new ground, a whole raft of interco & agreements with Sainsbury's and others who we can't see. The only people who would have access to this info would be the auditors who would be asking for comfort to support their judgement re going concern & signing off the accounts.

So question- have the accounts been signed off with a statement around 'going concern' in the case of any of the companies (they have been signed of which is the first step)?? If they are signed off on a going concern basis then there is something substantial behind all this that we don't see.

The football club may hold at this point a load of interco debt supporting the balanace sheet of other group companies but what actually matters is what we don't know which is the debt we will have on completion, and the assets on completion (i.e. a ground being built for us). The level of external debt (i.e. not interco) is not that significant.

Of course the historic valuation of Roots Hall was premised on its value for development- and that itself was only real based on the very events taking place now happening.

So its fun but I am afraid you are going to get nowhere understanding the real picture.

 

[Cricko]

If your assets are lower than your debts and the parent company have done sweet FA for years and have no money or real tangible assets, how is any of this a going concern built on promises.....All very odd..

I might as well say I will open a shop with nothing but one day I will get rich. Let me cook the books to show you how this works.

 

[chapperzUK]

If your assets are lower than your debts and the parent company have done sweet FA for years how is any of this a going concern built on promises.....All very odd..

I might as well say I will open a shop with nothing but one day I will get rich. Let me cook the books to show you how this works.

The report doesn't mention it is a 'going concern' and hasn't for years. In fact the report in the accounts sounds exactly the same as last year.

 

[Cricko]

In which case we are trading insolvent which is illegal in the first place but wrapped up in other skint companies who move paper debt around.

 

[chapperzUK]

In which case we are trading insolvent which is illegal in the first place but wrapped up in other skint companies who move paper debt around.

It doesn't state we are a 'going concern' or that we are not a 'going concern', but for the last 4 years the audit report states that there is uncertainty concerning the company being a 'going concern'.

 

[chapperzUK]

I am fully aware of the juggling and balancing acts performed by accountants, all I am saying it that it isn't like the auditors turned round and said "yeah everything is hunky dory here" and just signed it off. They have expressed concerns over the state of the club and the group of companies for several years and even stated that despite the confidence of the directors, there is no certainty.

 

[Beefy]

There's way too much preoccupation over our debt figure. It means nothing. We have less debt than Manchester United or Chelsea. I know which club is in the poorest financial position.

That said the important thing has always been who the debt is owed to and where interest is payable then what it our ability to meet those obligations. For the most part it's Directors loans and other group undertakings. As we've seen with Mansfield this week, monies paid in from Directors can be demanded back but there's very little possibility of the money actually being able to be paid.

The rent issue would concern me but I'm happy enough with the explanations offered in this thread. If there's any possibility that the club have actually paid a penny in rent then the Trust should be all over that.

 

[Cricko]

I would stab at a guess Beefy, Manure have a higher asset than us. We have no assets at all.

 

[Beefy]

Absolutely. Point is that there's very little to be gained in getting hung up on the debt figure. Whether we are £1m in debt or £100m in debt the figure itself doesn't mean anything in reality.

With the possible exception of the rent these figures don't change anything. I thought we were ****ed an hour ago before I read them. I think we're ****ed now. I don't see much upside in getting more worried about it at this stage.

 

[Jam_Man]

The debt could all be cleared by the redevelopment, who knows maybe Ron has planned for that and has it all under control.


.....or maybe not.

 

[kevst183]

Don't forget!!! the diggers will be on site in the Spring! Ha! Ha!

 

[kentblues]

The auditors have a duty of care and if they consider one or more of the companies as insolvent and not passing the going concern test they would say so- or risk getting sued by subsequent creditors. Given they don't say this but maybe reference to some 'concerns' (I don't know exactly what they say) then there is something to support that the companies can continue to trade.

as I say we won't get any further on this discussion as I think there is zero chance of the additional information getting into the public domain.

 

[mrsblue]

To simplify ,

Club takes x amount then pays out on wages and bills,Club still loses cash no matter what the team achieve,...Simple.

 

[chapperzUK]

To simplify ,

Club takes x amount then pays out on wages and bills,Club still loses cash no matter what the team achieve,...Simple.

Well no, we will have more income if we were winning games and near the top of the table than losing games fighting off relegation.

Cup runs, such as Wembley last season and getting to the 4th round of the FA cup this season will help income.

 

[Supa Shrimpa]

Erm...why do you think the Trust should be clarifying that? If we asked, it would be one of those questions where we could show we'd asked but be unlikely to be able to show a response, if one was made. Besides which, it's much more a question for Ron, not Steve, who we normally meet with. It's much more a question to be asked of the chairman, at the club's AGM as and when it next falls.

I haven't renewed my Trust membership, because that is exactly what I DO expect them to ask, and they're getting nowhere. If SK can't answer the questions then there's not point meeting up with him. At the AGM he'll probably invite Ricky Duncan, a couple players etc to eat up some time, anyway.

 

[McNasty]

To simplify ,

Club takes x amount then pays out on wages and bills,Club still loses cash no matter what the team achieve,...Simple.

It might be simple but if the team does well and the Chairman doesn't p off local businesses the commercial opportunities are endless. Going back a few years the income from the commercial side was, I believe, over £1,000,000 but fell away to about £300,000. That £700,000 drop makes a massive difference to the profit/loss.

 

[united we stand]

Erm...why do you think the Trust should be clarifying that? If we asked, it would be one of those questions where we could show we'd asked but be unlikely to be able to show a response, if one was made. Besides which, it's much more a question for Ron, not Steve, who we normally meet with. It's much more a question to be asked of the chairman, at the club's AGM as and when it next falls.

I hope that now that time has past you can see that this was Nora good post. For anyone thinking of joining the trust I don't think this will make them more likely to do so

 

[OldBlueLady]

I hope that now that time has past you can see that this was Nora good post. For anyone thinking of joining the trust I don't think this will make them more likely to do so

I'm sorry, but I still don't think it's a question for the Trust. It is, as I said, a question for Ron at the Club AGM, whether the Trust ask it or whether someone else does. You can ask questions of Ron privately all day long and he will only tell you as much as he wants to....same applies to some extent at the AGM but at least there it's public.

 

[Pubey]

It might be simple but if the team does well and the Chairman doesn't p off local businesses the commercial opportunities are endless. Going back a few years the income from the commercial side was, I believe, over £1,000,000 but fell away to about £300,000. That £700,000 drop makes a massive difference to the profit/loss.

But pretty much every business has had to tighten their belts in recent years - our commercial opportunities and executive boxes etc will always suffer if there's a major economic downturn.

However I always forget that you can't use the recession as an excuse when it comes to Ron 'Pure Evil' Martin.

 

[McNasty]

I'm sorry, but I still don't think it's a question for the Trust. It is, as I said, a question for Ron at the Club AGM, whether the Trust ask it or whether someone else does. You can ask questions of Ron privately all day long and he will only tell you as much as he wants to....same applies to some extent at the AGM but at least there it's public.

The problem Kay is the fact AGMs happen as and when, and should be annually but the Trust meet with the club, irrespective of who, every couple of months.

If the questions are asked on a regular basis SK would pass them on to Ron Martin. As you say whether we get any answers at all --- who knows.