A little less deep depression, a little more perspective please

Up the Shrimpers · Aug 18, 2015

Up the Shrimpers said:
Yes remember it well and our 'goal' was an own goal as well. I also went to the next away game at Port Vale a 6-2 defeat.
The bizarre fact is that after beating us 8-1 Gillingham then won their next home match 10-0 v Chesterfield!!!!

wakes123 said:
Wow that must have made you at least question your support after the Port Vale game, no? Many make the trip for the next away game!? I unfortunately couldn't make this game as I had to wait a few more months to be born.

Actually as someone pointed out the 6-2 defeat was at Notts County and the next away game which I also went to was a 4-1 defeat at Port Vale. It didn't get much better as we also lost 7-0 at Sunderland on a Tuesday night that season what a horrible journey home that was.
However it was quite an exciting season as we also beat Div 1 Derby County in the League Cup and managed to avoid relegation on the last day of the season by beating Blackpool 4-0. It was also the season we beat Wigan 3-2 after being 2-0 down.

Can you imagine what a ShrimperZone message board would have looked like after a run like this -
Gillingham 8 Southend 1
Southend 1 Preston 2
Notts County 6 Southend 2
Southend 2 Brentford 3
Port Vale 4 Southend 1
Mansfield 1 Southend 0

As for how many away fans went, in those days if we took over 100 to a long away game then that was a good turnout.
Probably had about 350 at Gillingham, 100 at Notts County and the Port Vale game was a Monday night and we only had about 35 fans there.

RobM · Aug 18, 2015

"Gillingham 8 Southend 1" - and our goal was an o.g. ! Oh - beaten to it!)

Gillingham's 10-0 win was remarkable in that nobody got a hat-trick.

Jedi Shrimper · Aug 18, 2015

fbm said:
I've been away on my annual hols and can't believe some of the stuff on here. So I thought I'd do a little research as to how we have done whenever we have been promoted to this league.

1971-72 - Promoted to Div 3 for 1st time.
1972-73 - First 6 league results - H v Wrexham, Lost 1-0, A v Plymouth, Lost 2-0, H v Swansea, Won 3-1, H v Rochdale, Lost 2-1, A v Tranmere, Lost 3-1, H v Notts County, Won 3-1. After 6 games, 2 wins, 4 defeats, 4 points total, finished 14th.

1980-81 - Promoted to Div 3.
1981-82 - Three points for a win introduced. First 6 League results - A v Walsall, Won 1-0, H v Newport, Lost 4-0, A v Carlisle, Lost 3-2, H v Portsmouth, Won 2-0, H v Swindon, drew 0-0, A v Huddersfield, L 3-2. After 6 games, 2 wins, 1 draw, 3 defeats, 7 points total, finished 7th.

1986-87 - Promoted to Div 3.
1987-88 - First 6 league results - A v Bury, Drew 2-2, H v Chester, Drew 2-2, A v Gillingham, Lost 8-1, H v Preston, Lost 2-1, A v Notts County, Lost 6-2, H v Brentford, Lost 3-2. After 6 games, 0 wins, 2 draws, 4 defeats, 2 points total, finished 17th.

1989-90 - Promoted to Div 3.
1990-91 - First 6 league results - A v Huddersfield, Won 2-1, H v Crewe, Won 3-2, A v Cambridge, Won 4-1, H v Preston, Won 3-2, H v Shrewsbury, Won 2-1, A v Stoke, Lost 4-0. After 6 games, 5 wins, 1 defeat, total 15 points, finished runners up.

2004-05 - Promoted to Div 3.
2005-06 - First 6 league results - H v Port Vale, Lost 2-1, A v Bradford, Won 2-0, A v Walsall, Drew 2-2, H v Huddersfield, Drew 1-1, A v Scunthorpe, Lost 1-0, H v Colchester, Won 3-1. First 6 games, 2 wins, 2 draws, 2 defeats, total 8 points, finished as Champions.

So having been promoted only 5 times up to this league in our history, we have only made a good start once.

We have shown relegation form twice... yet have never been relegated.

#Justsaying

Let's not go overboard people just because we didn't play well last Saturday.

Keep the Faith.

Good post, shows it takes a period of adjustment when moving into a higher division. I think Saturday came as a big reality check to many who thought we would waltz into the promotion race. It showed there are areas we need to improve & lessons we need to learn. I still believe that we will adjust to this league and have a decent season.

:thumbsup:

Rattus Norvegicus · Aug 18, 2015

If I remember correctly that period around 86 to 90 was rather interesting for all supporters as we were either going for promotion or fighting off relegation .......... no mid-table security even though there were no play-offs in those days ....... well that is how my memory thinks it was.

I remember a home game when we won and we celebrated not going down as if it were promotion itself. That might have been the Blackpool game - I'm not sure. And no internet or mobile phones to keep in touch with other scores either.

Anyway, I am in the camp that believes that a good start does the team no harm at all - true there are teams that recover from an appalling first dozen games but there are many more that then struggle through to the end of the season before knowing if they are to be relegated.

fbm · Aug 18, 2015

Rattus Norvegicus said:
If I remember correctly that period around 86 to 90 was rather interesting for all supporters as we were either going for promotion or fighting off relegation .......... no mid-table security even though there were no play-offs in those days ....... well that is how my memory thinks it was.

I remember a home game when we won and we celebrated not going down as if it were promotion itself. That might have been the Blackpool game - I'm not sure. And no internet or mobile phones to keep in touch with other scores either.

Anyway, I am in the camp that believes that a good start does the team no harm at all - true there are teams that recover from an appalling first dozen games but there are many more that then struggle through to the end of the season before knowing if they are to be relegated.

Yes, that was the feeling on that day. I couldn't make the game but heard reports from the radio and it was as though we had won the league.

You're right about that period and how perceptions of time etc change... The 80's was an incredible decade for the club. Looking back it seems like it was a much longer time period but in fact it went something like this -

1980-81 - Won Div 4 Championship unbeaten at home and only conceding 6 goals and with a record points total of 67 in the last season of 2 points for a win at that time (translates to 97 under 3 points for a win)

1981-82 - Finished 7th in Div 3 after a slow start but making a late run with 6 out of 7 wins in April and up to May 1st when there was still amazingly 4 games left, of which we won none. The season finished on Friday 14 May with a 4-1 home defeat by Burnley when we had already beaten them 5-3 at Turf Moor less than a month earlier.

1982-83 - 15th in Div 3 but would have been higher mid table if we had won just one of our last 9 games, which instead yielded just 4 draws, the other 5 ending in defeat. Dave Smith was the manager and this was where the wheels started to come off...

1983-84 - The Rubins sold out to Anton Johnson, Dave Smith was sacked and replaced by Peter Morris and things started ok. We beat Scunthorpe 6-1 away, Brentford 6-0 at home and had signed Billy Kellock from Wolves who were a Div 1 team and he oozed class in his first few games. Morris also brought in some other players but things went downhill around November. We ended up being relegated despite the 20 goals of Steve Phillips. Morris was sacked and replaced by Bobby Moore. Anton Johnson was ousted and Andrew MacHutcheon took over as temporary chairman.

1984-85 - A wretched season, probably one of the worst in the clubs history when only a 1-0 victory on the final day avoided re-election (there was no automatic relegation from Division 4 back then). Despite this, Steve Phillips scored 23 goals out of a team total of 52, an incredible effort. MacHutcheon handed over the chairmanship to Vic Jobson.

1985-86 - A finish of 9th in Div 4 and the spirits were lifted by one Richard Cadette, a striker we brought in from Orient and he smashed 4 past them in the first home game in a 5-1 win. His tally was even better than Phillips - 25 - but the club still had dark days. Barry Silkman led a revolt over players not being paid and the lowest league crowd at Roots Hall of 1006 was recorded on Wednesday 5th March against Halifax in a 2-1 win. To be fair, we had only won once since 28th December at that point.

1986-87 - Promoted! Bobby Moore was replaced by Dave Webb and we started well - however, Webb left before the end of the season and Paul Clark took over. We still finished 3rd and Cadette scored 31 goals.

1987-88 - Dick Bate was appointed manager and after two 2-2 draws away at Bury and home to Chester, the club went on an appalling run, alluded to earlier in this thread. 83 goals were conceded that season but we still beat Derby 1-0 in the League Cup (over 2 legs) with Roy McDonough scoring a penalty past Peter Shilton. Bate was sacked and in came Clarky again to keep us up, winning 7 of the last 10 (including the 4-0 v Blackpool on the final day). As mentioned, it was a season where we conceded everything from 0 - 8 except 5. Incidentally, Gillingham, who beat us 8-1, only finished 4 points above us and despite then beating Chesterfield 10-0 in their next home game, only scored another 27 goals in the remaining 21 home games, having got 18 in just 2! David Crown was our top scorer with 17, but only joined halfway through the season.

1988-89 - Relegated - our away form was terrible. Clark gave way during the season for Dave Webbs second spell and even David Crowns 29 goals couldn't save us, although we were extremely unlucky, going down on the last day on goal difference with 54 points. We had beaten Chester 1-0 at home and it was between us and Reading who dropped; they were away at Chesterfield and at half time were 2-0 down. That would had left them on 53 points and we would have been safe. People were celebrating on the pitch and again, pre-mobiles and the internet, the news came through that Reading had scored 4 second half goals to win 4-2. That day was bloody awful.

1989-90 - Promoted again! Crowny's 23 goals included 2 at Peterborough on the last day to take us up. We also beat a full strength Spurs team at the Hall 3-2 in the League Cup but went out on the away goals rule.

1990-91 - Webby takes us straight through the league to Division 2 where promotion was clinched thanks to Ian Benjamin's goal at Bury. We blew the title, failing to win either of our last 2 home games against Orient or Brentford but we had got into Division 2 for the first time in our history. How far away would that have been just a few seasons earlier.

Just researching and writing the above brings back so many memories, good and bad, but it highlights at this level we are REAL football supporters. No sense of expectation for a Southend fan in the 1980's! This whole period was one massive roller coaster. God knows what the Zone would have been like if it existed back then! I think these seasons are why I - and no doubt others - get so frustrated when supporters these days want absolutely instant success.

Jedi Shrimper · Aug 18, 2015

mrsblue said:
So your info shows the opening top 9 after 10 finished in the top 9 !

What's interesting is that none of the bottom 4 after 10 games ended up getting relegated.

Napster · Aug 19, 2015

fbm said:
Yes, that was the feeling on that day. I couldn't make the game but heard reports from the radio and it was as though we had won the league.

You're right about that period and how perceptions of time etc change... The 80's was an incredible decade for the club. Looking back it seems like it was a much longer time period but in fact it went something like this -

1980-81 - Won Div 4 Championship unbeaten at home and only conceding 6 goals and with a record points total of 67 in the last season of 2 points for a win at that time (translates to 97 under 3 points for a win)

1981-82 - Finished 7th in Div 3 after a slow start but making a late run with 6 out of 7 wins in April and up to May 1st when there was still amazingly 4 games left, of which we won none. The season finished on Friday 14 May with a 4-1 home defeat by Burnley when we had already beaten them 5-3 at Turf Moor less than a month earlier.

1982-83 - 15th in Div 3 but would have been higher mid table if we had won just one of our last 9 games, which instead yielded just 4 draws, the other 5 ending in defeat. Dave Smith was the manager and this was where the wheels started to come off...

1983-84 - The Rubins sold out to Anton Johnson, Dave Smith was sacked and replaced by Peter Morris and things started ok. We beat Scunthorpe 6-1 away, Brentford 6-0 at home and had signed Billy Kellock from Wolves who were a Div 1 team and he oozed class in his first few games. Morris also brought in some other players but things went downhill around November. We ended up being relegated despite the 20 goals of Steve Phillips. Morris was sacked and replaced by Bobby Moore. Anton Johnson was ousted and Andrew MacHutcheon took over as temporary chairman.

1984-85 - A wretched season, probably one of the worst in the clubs history when only a 1-0 victory on the final day avoided re-election (there was no automatic relegation from Division 4 back then). Despite this, Steve Phillips scored 23 goals out of a team total of 52, an incredible effort. MacHutcheon handed over the chairmanship to Vic Jobson.

1985-86 - A finish of 9th in Div 4 and the spirits were lifted by one Richard Cadette, a striker we brought in from Orient and he smashed 4 past them in the first home game in a 5-1 win. His tally was even better than Phillips - 25 - but the club still had dark days. Barry Silkman led a revolt over players not being paid and the lowest league crowd at Roots Hall of 1006 was recorded on Wednesday 5th March against Halifax in a 2-1 win. To be fair, we had only won once since 28th December at that point.

1986-87 - Promoted! Bobby Moore was replaced by Dave Webb and we started well - however, Webb left before the end of the season and Paul Clark took over. We still finished 3rd and Cadette scored 31 goals.

1987-88 - Dick Bate was appointed manager and after two 2-2 draws away at Bury and home to Chester, the club went on an appalling run, alluded to earlier in this thread. 83 goals were conceded that season but we still beat Derby 1-0 in the League Cup (over 2 legs) with Roy McDonough scoring a penalty past Peter Shilton. Bate was sacked and in came Clarky again to keep us up, winning 7 of the last 10 (including the 4-0 v Blackpool on the final day). As mentioned, it was a season where we conceded everything from 0 - 8 except 5. Incidentally, Gillingham, who beat us 8-1, only finished 4 points above us and despite then beating Chesterfield 10-0 in their next home game, only scored another 27 goals in the remaining 21 home games, having got 18 in just 2! David Crown was our top scorer with 17, but only joined halfway through the season.

1988-89 - Relegated - our away form was terrible. Clark gave way during the season for Dave Webbs second spell and even David Crowns 29 goals couldn't save us, although we were extremely unlucky, going down on the last day on goal difference with 54 points. We had beaten Chester 1-0 at home and it was between us and Reading who dropped; they were away at Chesterfield and at half time were 2-0 down. That would had left them on 53 points and we would have been safe. People were celebrating on the pitch and again, pre-mobiles and the internet, the news came through that Reading had scored 4 second half goals to win 4-2. That day was bloody awful.

1989-90 - Promoted again! Crowny's 23 goals included 2 at Peterborough on the last day to take us up. We also beat a full strength Spurs team at the Hall 3-2 in the League Cup but went out on the away goals rule.

1990-91 - Webby takes us straight through the league to Division 2 where promotion was clinched thanks to Ian Benjamin's goal at Bury. We blew the title, failing to win either of our last 2 home games against Orient or Brentford but we had got into Division 2 for the first time in our history. How far away would that have been just a few seasons earlier.

Just researching and writing the above brings back so many memories, good and bad, but it highlights at this level we are REAL football supporters. No sense of expectation for a Southend fan in the 1980's! This whole period was one massive roller coaster. God knows what the Zone would have been like if it existed back then! I think these seasons are why I - and no doubt others - get so frustrated when supporters these days want absolutely instant success.