3rd winding up order due

[WESTY_SUFC]

We all know that Ron Martin has made massive mistakes.

Can you give me a few then as you seem to disagree with all mine

 

[Cricko]

I'm glad you've enjoyed it. We'll do it again in a few days :winking:

Ha!...:clap:

 

[EastStandBlue]

I'm glad you've enjoyed it. We'll do it again in a few days :winking:

We'll do it tomorrow if we lose tonight, but with extra vigour, and people calling for more loan signings.

 

[Mick]

Exactly. Budgetting for a cup run is insane!

On a par with budgeting to include an expected lottery win !

 

[Mick]

Serious question.

Given that Ron Martin has 'history' with HMRC, which I assume pre-dates even his involvement with SUFC, will we still be treated with the same contempt by said HMRC when he finally sails off into the sunset? Essentially, will his dragging of OUR club through a series court rooms count against us when he is no longer Chairman. If so, that to me would be the most unforgivable thing of all.

I wonder how far you have to go back to find a good year in the accounts of Martin Dawn?

 

[Mick]

We'll do it tomorrow if we lose tonight, but with extra vigour, and people calling for more loan signings.

Barnet are a very poor side indeed. Even before they hit the bottom spot they were my favourites for relegation. There is nothing about their set-up on or off the field that says anything but "non-league". They wouldn't start as favourites visiting most (any?) Conference sides. If we don't beat them, any criticism will be thoroughly deserved.

 

[GBJ]

We all know that Ron Martin has made massive mistakes. I doubt that there's a single person on Shrimperzone who would say otherwise.

Maybe it's just how I read it, but these few posts suggest otherwise to me -

It just bemuses me that RM is so vilified. None of us like the situation we are in as a club but these are hard times. I very much doubt that out of all the negative posters there is not one, probably many, that have felt the pinch. Many that have prioritised bills and many that do anything and everything to get by and await an upturn in fortunes. Every day we hear about house repossessions. Are people suggesting that its their fault for not prioritising properly or that when they took the mortgage they should have foreseen the recession? These are sad, bad times and RM is not immune. At least he is trying to pull out all the stops and prevent the worst. By hook, not crook. Most of us have been there in one way or another.

So blame for what? We're no worse off than we were 10 years ago... And yes we have been slapped with winding up orders before! This is football, sometimes you make money , most of the time you loose money, sometimes you go up, sometimes you go down.. Get over it.

I am not sure what it is the fans really want. A messiah that will come in and prop up a business that leaks money quicker than Stockport leak goals? Its somewhat curious to me. So some think that a new face at the helm will suddenly change the clubs fortunes? RM may have had to rob Peter to pay Paul but to do so he must be seeing a bigger picture where the benefits outweigh the bad. Does anyone really believe this is not having a personal and psychological toll on RM? I for one hope he continues to believe in the big picture long enough for it to see fruition and does not a) Throw in the towel and walk or b) Have a fatal heart attack in the process. A new ground, with three or four sides is the immediate way forward. Lets all get behind this and show solidarity and support. Whether you think we are going about it in the right way or not, it needs all of us to row in the same direction to have any hope of success. Rich oligarchs and Arab oil magnates are conspicuous by their absence and besides, RM has gone through hell and sweat blood over this and if anyone is going to reap a reward then I hope it is him.

 

[Beefy]

Can you give me a few then as you seem to disagree with all mine

I didn't disagree with yours at all. I was just putting them in context. As I said in my earlier response to you, Ron Martin is a product of the rotten culture of football and, tbh, I don't have much faith that anyone who took over from him wouldn't make the same mistakes. It happens at Clubs up and down the Country. How many times have we seen Clubs supposedly days away from extinction suddenly get bought out and the new owners starts flashing the cash? Swindon, Southampton, there'd certainly others.

When Ron Martin took over he cut costs, steadied the ship and got us onto a somewhat stable footing. Out of nowhere Tilly & Freddy get us flying through the Leagues and suddenly RM, due to arrogance or naivity or a genuine over the top enthusiasm for what had happened, completely lost the plot. He didn't seem to consider for a moment that we would get relegated from the Championship. But we did get relegated, our income halved overnight and so he stopped paying tax in order to help plug the gap. We then had a number of players earning money that the Club couldn't afford, and on long contracts.

He then made his biggest mistake. When the West Stand were singing 'Where's The Eastwood Money Gone' he should have gone out there and slapped each and every singer with a copy of the accounts. Instead he signed Lee Barnard, Alex Revell & James Walker and tied Adam Barrett down to a five year contract. Then we lose in the Play-Offs, the bottom falls out of his other businesses, he has no way of subsidising the football club, our income falls even lower and yet we're completely unable to cut our outgoings because we've got a dozen players on big money, multi-year, protected contracts and when we try to sell them no one wants them.

He has been unfortunate, in that had we been promoted in 07/08 or had the recession come around six months later after funding for FF was secured then he may have got away with all of this. But he didn't and here we are. My objection to the witch-hunt on here though is that the vast majority of people on here (probably myself included) would have made the same, or similar mistake had we been in that position. It's also rarely put into the context of the wider problem with football finance and there's never an acknowledgement that the chances are that if RM wasn't involved we'd still almost certainly be making losses. We'd still almost certainly have major cashflow problems. Maybe had he not bought out Vic someone like Cowling would have come in and bankrolled us out of the goodness of his heart. It's just as likely though that we'd get another Martin, another Jobson, another Rubin. At what point do we look at the business model of the Club and just realise how unsustainable it is?

 

[Beefy]

Maybe it's just how I read it, but these few posts suggest otherwise to me -

I'm sure that they can defend themselves. I'd suggest that they are seeing things as shades of grey rather than black and white. onceknownasrab offers, IMO< a decent analysis of the type of tough decision that the Club are having to make whilst they attempt to juggle finances until the move.

 

[Kent Shrimper]

I haven't got time to read 9 pages, is there another winding up order?

 

[fbm]

I haven't got time to read 9 pages, is there another winding up order?

Don't know to be honest, I don't think it's materialised yet.

But it's one of the best threads on SZ for a long time. Worth reading.

 

[Norfolkshrimp]

He has been unfortunate, in that had we been promoted in 07/08 or had the recession come around six months later after funding for FF was secured then he may have got away with all of this.

Totally disagree, I don't think he had a hope in hell of securing financing via conventional methods before the recession.

What's the business plan that would have convinced major mainstream lenders to back the project ?

You also contradict yourself to some extent because if we had been promoted and he continued to manage in the same way we would have had even more high earners and could easily have come straight back down with even greater financial woes than we have now.

I'm off out for a couple of hours so you've got extra time to rip me apart LOL

 

[EastStandBlue]

Totally disagree, I don't think he had a hope in hell of securing financing via conventional methods before the recession.

What's the business plan that would have convinced major mainstream lenders to back the project ?

You also contradict yourself to some extent because if we had been promoted and he continued to manage in the same way we would have had even more high earners and could easily have come straight back down with even greater financial woes than we have now.

I'm off out for a couple of hours so you've got extra time to rip me apart LOL

Wasn't it confirmed that a subsidiary of Morgan Stanley that specialised in sport arena builds had agreed a deal to finance the build?

 

[Beefy]

Ha!...:clap:

Apparently I can't rep you back. I'm as bored typing this crap as anyone is of reading it. Particularly when all it ever does is get me labelled as some kind of RM sycophant/relative of someone at the Club.

I just think that there's two sides to every story and can't help myself when I see someone state something as fact that I don't believe to be the case. I'd get much more work done during the day if I could...

 

[Mick]

I haven't got time to read 9 pages, is there another winding up order?

Don't know, but if you've missed it, don't worry, there'll be another one along soon.

 

[Norfolkshrimp]

Wasn't it confirmed that a subsidiary of Morgan Stanley that specialised in sport arena builds had agreed a deal to finance the build?

Do they have a specialist sub prime subsidiary ?

 

[united we stand]

Do they have a specialist sub prime subsidiary ?

I know it was meant as a joke but yes they do (did) , and that division almost brought the bank down, and ultimatedly cost me my job (I was at MS at the time in another division and was made redundant as a direct result of this ) . Internal control systems did not work correctly and the board was totally unawre with the size of the book being carried- until it all came crumbling down.

 

[Norfolkshrimp]

I know it was meant as a joke but yes they do (did) , and that division almost brought the bank down, and ultimatedly cost me my job (I was at MS at the time in another division and was made redundant as a direct result of this ) . Internal control systems did not work correctly and the board was totally unawre with the size of the book being carried- until it all came crumbling down.

Genuinely sorry to hear about your job, I guess that's what happens when greed takes over and a company does business with the devil.

 

[united we stand]

Genuinely sorry to hear about your job, I guess that's what happens when greed takes over and a company does business with the devil.

not a problem . I had been there for 15 years so got a good package, and then found a job which I enjoy more within weeks so it all worked out well in the end- although I must confess for those 4 weeks it was not nice to put it midly . Thanks for the kind words.

 

[Holy Joe]

What's the business plan that would have convinced major mainstream lenders to back the project ?

Are you kidding me - most of the on-going financial crisis is due to bad commercial real estate lending - any Irish or Icelandic bank would've bent over backwards to finance this.