CTFC
Guest
When you beat us last season you all seemed to think you were going to walk the league, remember what happened. Dont get too carried away with pre-season.
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Will this be the season?
- Thread starter the dark deshrimper
- Start date
Technician
Guest
Yes... but, do you know anything about our setup, squad or management? I would suggest not!!! Nice try.[b said:
Your team's easy to beat anyway.
Hong Kong Blue
Guest
FWIW here's my view from afar.
We've finished 17th last two seasons, so anything better is progress. A good season would be top half, IIRC we've done that once (just, we finished 12th) in the last 15 years. Anything from 13th - 16th will be acceptable, 17th or below disappointing and 23rd or 24th so disastrous I don’t even want to think about it.
I hope we will get promoted, but there is a difference between hope and expectation. It’s a distinction I think a few people on here would be wise to recognise, there has been an air of impatience around Roots Hall for too many years. We have an inexperienced manager who needs time. I would be gutted if Tilly got forced out because we were only 16th in November. Don’t expect too much from him and then turn against him when he fails to meet your unrealistic expectations. Tilly is an absolute legend and deserves our 100% support, even when the team is losing. Our club needs stability as we won’t go anywhere unless the managerial revolving door is stopped.
My expectation is lower mid-table (ie around13th–16th). I think there are encouraging signs. There appears to be good competition for places in central defence, central midfield and up front. Its genuinely difficult to name the first choice two in these three positions, and I hope that is down to strength not weakness. Possibly the most encouraging sign was being able to sign Lewis Hunt. I don’t see Lewis Hunt as a starter, but as a utility squad player. If our squad players are of his calibre, it certainly bodes well.
However there are also a number of question marks. In the middle of the pitch we may have plenty of options but will they blend? Edwards and Prior should be quality at the back (they certainly were when they last played for us), but lack of pace is a massive worry there. Up front the likes of Dudfield, Gray (although I’ve yet to see him play), Bramble and Corbett offer potential but will they click. Out wide I remain less than convinced. Our full-backs are both attacking with a tendency to leave the defence exposed, whilst I don’t think any of our wide midfield options (Gower, Pettefer, Husbands, Corbett) are natural wide players. To compound that I don’t think any of them are left-footed either. Finally there is the issue of consistency. Personally I can’t see Maher in a promotion winning side, I think he’s got the game, but I don’t think he can produce it regularly enough, a top 7 team (as opposed to a team who has a good cup run) needs players who perform week in week out. I am also sceptical whether the likes of Corbett, Dudfield, Bramble, Jay Smith (and possibly Prior’s hamstrings) can last a full season.
So, whilst there are grounds for optimism, these have to be tempered by reality. I’ll still dream of promotion but when I wake up I’ll be expecting nothing more than steady progress as a young manager gains experience at what will hopefully be a long and successful career.
I now await the criticism…..
We've finished 17th last two seasons, so anything better is progress. A good season would be top half, IIRC we've done that once (just, we finished 12th) in the last 15 years. Anything from 13th - 16th will be acceptable, 17th or below disappointing and 23rd or 24th so disastrous I don’t even want to think about it.
I hope we will get promoted, but there is a difference between hope and expectation. It’s a distinction I think a few people on here would be wise to recognise, there has been an air of impatience around Roots Hall for too many years. We have an inexperienced manager who needs time. I would be gutted if Tilly got forced out because we were only 16th in November. Don’t expect too much from him and then turn against him when he fails to meet your unrealistic expectations. Tilly is an absolute legend and deserves our 100% support, even when the team is losing. Our club needs stability as we won’t go anywhere unless the managerial revolving door is stopped.
My expectation is lower mid-table (ie around13th–16th). I think there are encouraging signs. There appears to be good competition for places in central defence, central midfield and up front. Its genuinely difficult to name the first choice two in these three positions, and I hope that is down to strength not weakness. Possibly the most encouraging sign was being able to sign Lewis Hunt. I don’t see Lewis Hunt as a starter, but as a utility squad player. If our squad players are of his calibre, it certainly bodes well.
However there are also a number of question marks. In the middle of the pitch we may have plenty of options but will they blend? Edwards and Prior should be quality at the back (they certainly were when they last played for us), but lack of pace is a massive worry there. Up front the likes of Dudfield, Gray (although I’ve yet to see him play), Bramble and Corbett offer potential but will they click. Out wide I remain less than convinced. Our full-backs are both attacking with a tendency to leave the defence exposed, whilst I don’t think any of our wide midfield options (Gower, Pettefer, Husbands, Corbett) are natural wide players. To compound that I don’t think any of them are left-footed either. Finally there is the issue of consistency. Personally I can’t see Maher in a promotion winning side, I think he’s got the game, but I don’t think he can produce it regularly enough, a top 7 team (as opposed to a team who has a good cup run) needs players who perform week in week out. I am also sceptical whether the likes of Corbett, Dudfield, Bramble, Jay Smith (and possibly Prior’s hamstrings) can last a full season.
So, whilst there are grounds for optimism, these have to be tempered by reality. I’ll still dream of promotion but when I wake up I’ll be expecting nothing more than steady progress as a young manager gains experience at what will hopefully be a long and successful career.
I now await the criticism…..
Technician
Guest
HKB
No seriously, your sentiments are everybodies fear on this board. Personally, with our setup! I would be very upset if we were bottom half come the end of the season!.
My advice to Tilson? Get the lads up to 50 points by January, which will get the fears of relegation out of the way... then relax and allow the lads to enjoy their football! If we can do that, we can make the play-offs and even do a Torquay!
Let's really go for it!
No seriously, your sentiments are everybodies fear on this board. Personally, with our setup! I would be very upset if we were bottom half come the end of the season!.
My advice to Tilson? Get the lads up to 50 points by January, which will get the fears of relegation out of the way... then relax and allow the lads to enjoy their football! If we can do that, we can make the play-offs and even do a Torquay!
Let's really go for it!
Guest
Guest
A good start is vital this season if we are going to achieve anything more than mid-table. By a good start I don't mean wining the first two games, we've got to win five or six of the first ten.
To be honest, it doesn't matter how we do it or with what players and I think that is the ethos that Tilly and Brush are trying to install. It doesn't matter who plays, just get the job done. With this in mind I think our lack of natural width (as someone rightly pointed out) is not a problem seeing as we don't seem to play with wingers anymore. I think this a good move because, especially at our level, wingers are too inconsistent and a bit of a luxury (Houghton, Clark). I'd rather stick 4 versatile and hardworking midfielders in there.
A couple of things people have said on here have made a lot of sense:
1) Roots Hall has got to become a formidable place again. In recent years we've given away points cheaply, losing record numbers of home games in the process. We can help here by providing a passionate and partisan crowd that intimidates the opposition.
2) If Wayne Gray scores a ratio of 1 in 2 games, who gives a f*** if he contributes little else. Rawle, Bazza et al may have had the flash but they delivered precious little. Sadly, some fans are far too easily impressed by players with a poncy trick or turn whilst they slate the proper hardworking players who invariably are spine of the side- I'm thinking of Broughton and Maher.
3) If Lewis Hunt is a squad player, we must have a pretty decent squad. Spot on.
This is the best squad- by a mile- that we've had since we dropped out of Div. 1. Can we get promotion with these players? Of course we can.
To be honest, it doesn't matter how we do it or with what players and I think that is the ethos that Tilly and Brush are trying to install. It doesn't matter who plays, just get the job done. With this in mind I think our lack of natural width (as someone rightly pointed out) is not a problem seeing as we don't seem to play with wingers anymore. I think this a good move because, especially at our level, wingers are too inconsistent and a bit of a luxury (Houghton, Clark). I'd rather stick 4 versatile and hardworking midfielders in there.
A couple of things people have said on here have made a lot of sense:
1) Roots Hall has got to become a formidable place again. In recent years we've given away points cheaply, losing record numbers of home games in the process. We can help here by providing a passionate and partisan crowd that intimidates the opposition.
2) If Wayne Gray scores a ratio of 1 in 2 games, who gives a f*** if he contributes little else. Rawle, Bazza et al may have had the flash but they delivered precious little. Sadly, some fans are far too easily impressed by players with a poncy trick or turn whilst they slate the proper hardworking players who invariably are spine of the side- I'm thinking of Broughton and Maher.
3) If Lewis Hunt is a squad player, we must have a pretty decent squad. Spot on.
This is the best squad- by a mile- that we've had since we dropped out of Div. 1. Can we get promotion with these players? Of course we can.
Hong Kong Blue
Guest
Width is needed to stretch the opposition and create space.[b said:
If we do win 6 of our first 10 league games, teams will come to Roots Hall looking for a point and that is when the value of genuine width will be most noticable.
Shrimp in a Kilt
Guest
Don't get too carried away with preseason?[b said:
Good grief, man, that's what pre-season is all about! The chance to dream, to have wild flights of fantasy, to HOPE and not have grim reality bite your bum! Leave us alone with our dreams, we have little enough time before the cold light of dawn!
The Turpinator
Saga Lout
I have been supporting SUFC for 25 years now & this will be my 14th consecutive season as a season ticket holder. I have seen the "glory days", not missing a single game for over 4 and a half years, from the start of the 90/91 season, including both trips to Italy in 93/94 season.
However, our demise since Whelan has been nigh on disasterous & it is only now that I'm beginning to see a little gimmer of light at the end of the tunnel as, this season, I think we have assembled the best squad we have had for many years (on paper anyway!).
I would, therefore, expect a better league placing than last season - maybe this will be the year we make a genuine challenge for promotion.
However, how often are the bookies wrong? At anywhere between 25/1 & 33/1 to win the league & at best around 10/1 for promotion, they obviously don't think we'll be there (or anywhere near) come next May. In fact, according to them, we have much more chance of getting relagated! When was the last time you saw a skint bookie?
That is why, this season, I am not going to allow myself to get carried away & I will not be predicting promotion for us. Too many times, at this stage of a season, in the last few years, I have had great optimism only for it to be crushed, shortly into the season, when I realise we are actually no better than most of the other teams in the division & endure another season of apparent underachievement.
Therefore, despite my thoughts about the squad we have for this season, I will be approaching it on the side of pessimism. After all, as Sophie Ellis-Bextor once sung, when she was an indie-queen in the group The Audience, "A pessimist is never disappointed".
However, our demise since Whelan has been nigh on disasterous & it is only now that I'm beginning to see a little gimmer of light at the end of the tunnel as, this season, I think we have assembled the best squad we have had for many years (on paper anyway!).
I would, therefore, expect a better league placing than last season - maybe this will be the year we make a genuine challenge for promotion.
However, how often are the bookies wrong? At anywhere between 25/1 & 33/1 to win the league & at best around 10/1 for promotion, they obviously don't think we'll be there (or anywhere near) come next May. In fact, according to them, we have much more chance of getting relagated! When was the last time you saw a skint bookie?
That is why, this season, I am not going to allow myself to get carried away & I will not be predicting promotion for us. Too many times, at this stage of a season, in the last few years, I have had great optimism only for it to be crushed, shortly into the season, when I realise we are actually no better than most of the other teams in the division & endure another season of apparent underachievement.
Therefore, despite my thoughts about the squad we have for this season, I will be approaching it on the side of pessimism. After all, as Sophie Ellis-Bextor once sung, when she was an indie-queen in the group The Audience, "A pessimist is never disappointed".
BluePartridge
Manager
What I'm trying to say though is why be pessimistic? I don't get it what is the point? If we don't do it we don't do it nothing we could have done about it, but to dream is our greatest power as human beings we should embrace it.
When I start being pessimistic at the START of a season, I want someone to shoot me, becuase it will never happen even in the most dire of times it WILL never happen.
When I start being pessimistic at the START of a season, I want someone to shoot me, becuase it will never happen even in the most dire of times it WILL never happen.
Matt the Shrimp
aka Harry Potter
Amen to that.[b said:
I still believe that we're going to lift the FA Cup this season as well as win promotion - probably because I haven't seen us play this season.
* * * * * * * * * *
If I'm required to be a bit more realistic, then I'll admit to having three concerns about this season:
1. Goalkeeping
2. Goalscoring
3. Injuries
No. 3 is probably the most frustrating, since there's not an awful lot one can do about it. A fully-fit and on form Jimmy Corbett and Jay Smith will tear holes in the defences of this division - but will that happen? The little knocks that Dudders has had are, perhaps, even more worrying.
As for no. 2, one can't help feeling that the burden of scoring goals lays heavily on Dudders' shoulders, and that he may as a result be closely marked. In the games I saw him play last season, there was no question in my mind that Dudders is the best all-round centre-forward we've had at this club since the early 90s: his positioning, ball-control, strength, height and knack for goal are sublime.
I guess it'll all be about the partnership he strikes up... who will that be with? A concern, I guess, is that he's not had that long to strike up a rapport with one of Gray or Droooo, one of whom will, I feel, be his main foil next year. If one of those two partnerships sparks, then we'll be fine.
As for 1., again I haven't seen Bart play yet. The gripings of wiggy and the kids do unsettle me - after all, surely they can't be so blind not to notice the massive flaws in Flavs as a goalie? Yet they still seem to prefer him to Bart... why?
= = = =
Once those three concerns are allayed, then I will feel very bullish about this season. We have, perhaps, one of the best defences in the division (Nicolau, Prior, Edwards/Barrett, Jupp/Hunt), and some of the most gifted midfielders in the division (Gower, Maher, Bentley, Jay Smith, Pettefer, Kightly, Corbett).
I also firmly believe that we have one of the most united teams in the division. Some of the key figures - Tilly, Brushy, Spinner, the Eagle, Kev Maher - are now Southend through and through. They love this club, they will bust a gut to make sure this club succeeds.
Look no further than the huge impression that the sense of team had on the likes of Lawrie Dudfield, and how much he wanted to join us. He could have stayed at play-off bound Northampton, but he didn't want to. He wanted to come to Roots Hall, to be part of an awesome team here. We made him feel like he belonged, because he wanted to work his socks off and be part of that team.
That lack of team-ethic is also, I suspect, why Tilly & Brushy made that big, and brave call effectively to release Conny (by offering him a crap deal).
That team ethic - which the likes of Drroooo and Juppy also show in spades - took us to Cardiff last year. OK, so we finished 17th in the league and were very ordinary on occasions. But a lot of that was down to Wignall, and in particular the start he had in the league. If you'd replicated Tilly's points average over the course of the season, we'd have been not far shy of the play-offs.
We should be optimistic about next season. We have some great players. We have an awesome team. We have a fanbase which, following Cardiff, has been massively re-energised about the club... surely I wasn't the only person who was totally blown away by the size and passion of the home support against Torquay on the last day of the season?
Most of all, we are Southend United. We have to believe in our club, our badge. We should fear no one on the football field. Boston, Chester, Lincoln, Cheltenham, Kidderminster... who are they? They don't have our fans, our history, our passion, our potential. We are the mighty Southend United, and people should be fearing us - people should be thinking "bloody hell, can't see us getting anything at Roots Hall this season."
It's time to remind not only ourselves, but also the rest of our division, that we are the mighty Southend... and, as Spinner said, that we do not belong in this division.
<span style='font-size:17pt;line-height:100%'>COME ON SOUTHEND!!</span>
Matt
the dark deshrimper
Coach
Agree 100%[b said:
The idea of supporting a team is to enjoy supporting your team.
How can you enjoy supporting a team when you look on the negative side al the time
Technician
Guest
Turpinator: you state that you would rather be pessimistic in outlook towards the coming season, in order to avoid disappointment if it doesn't go too well... but how can you justify pessimism without a ball being kicked and turn up to support the squad and management as well?
If I was pessimistic about winning a game of football, a raffle, or getting three bars on a fruit machine... then I would rather not play and it really is that simple.
I am not saying you don't have the right to that opinion!!! of course you do... maybe it was just a poor choice of word or something, but I would be cautiously optimistic rather than pessimistic myself.
If I was pessimistic about winning a game of football, a raffle, or getting three bars on a fruit machine... then I would rather not play and it really is that simple.
I am not saying you don't have the right to that opinion!!! of course you do... maybe it was just a poor choice of word or something, but I would be cautiously optimistic rather than pessimistic myself.
Benfleetshrimp
Coach
You ahve absolutley no idea how much I am dying to stand on my desk at work and sing at the top of my lungs[b said:
"Oh Southend we love you!"
That is the best post (or part of a post) I have ever read and should go along with the great speaches in History ala Winston Curchill, Martin Luther King etc.
MTS I stand and salute you sir.
Technician
Guest
MtS... to quote you sir...if I may,
[OK, so we finished 17th in the league and were very ordinary on occasions. But a lot of that was down to Wignall, and in particular the start he had in the league. If you'd replicated Tilly's points average over the course of the season, we'd have been not far shy of the play-offs.]
...excluding the last few games where we dropped off a bit bacause there was nothing else to play for... I looked at Tilson's/Brush's points tally too and across the whole season, we would have had 74 points and by my reckoning that would have secured 6th or 7th at worst, not so much by last years tables but looking at a typical average. All we need to do is replicate that, get behind the team and get the Hall really rocking!!!
COME ON YOU BLUES!!!
[OK, so we finished 17th in the league and were very ordinary on occasions. But a lot of that was down to Wignall, and in particular the start he had in the league. If you'd replicated Tilly's points average over the course of the season, we'd have been not far shy of the play-offs.]
...excluding the last few games where we dropped off a bit bacause there was nothing else to play for... I looked at Tilson's/Brush's points tally too and across the whole season, we would have had 74 points and by my reckoning that would have secured 6th or 7th at worst, not so much by last years tables but looking at a typical average. All we need to do is replicate that, get behind the team and get the Hall really rocking!!!
COME ON YOU BLUES!!!
* ORM *
Still Loves Emma Bunton. Roy McDonough is God!
As Steve seems to be absent from this board today can I just say on his behalf. We're gonna get spanked and we will finish 17th.
FWIW I hope people don't raise their expectations too high. Anything over and above a relegation dogfight this season is progress in the right direction in my eyes.
FWIW I hope people don't raise their expectations too high. Anything over and above a relegation dogfight this season is progress in the right direction in my eyes.
Technician
Guest
are you steveh1510 in disguise?[b said:Quote[/b] (* ORM * @ July 30 2004,12:45)]As Steve seems to be absent from this board today can I just say on his behalf. We're gonna get spanked and we will finish 17th.
FWIW I hope people don't raise their expectations too high. Anything over and above a relegation dogfight this season is progress in the right direction in my eyes.
17th... why don't you put £10 on 17th down at the bookies!
* ORM *
Still Loves Emma Bunton. Roy McDonough is God!
Coz the Lord Jesus Christ has told me that gambling is a sin.[b said:Quote[/b] (Technician @ July 30 2004,12:51)]are you steveh1510 in disguise?[b said:Quote[/b] (* ORM * @ July 30 2004,12:45)]As Steve seems to be absent from this board today can I just say on his behalf. We're gonna get spanked and we will finish 17th.
FWIW I hope people don't raise their expectations too high. Anything over and above a relegation dogfight this season is progress in the right direction in my eyes.
17th... why don't you put £10 on 17th down at the bookies!
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