Watching and Listening

[southendkid]

People moaning about our mid table position, when Greece won Euro 2004, I think most would agree that they were not the best team in the competition, if the tournament was replayed immediately after victory it is unlikely Greece would have emerged victorious again. At the mid season point the table does not necessarily reflect what the table should look like based on skill. Throw a dice a few times and the results might suggest a 6 is more likely to show up, but throw it 50 more times and you'll start to see every number has an equal chance of showing up.

 

[southchurch]

A wee birdie with a heavy heart asked me to answer this negative post. Yes the three teams promoted mabye did full fill your stats southchurch.But they also have another interesting stat they were the three highest budgets in league,one team having a 3.2 million budget, a blethering chimp should be able to promote a team on that budget.So a better standard player can be afforded for example Benson went to Swindon for 3500 week which triggered there run to promotion. Crewe have proved a settled team and a style of play can work 90%of there squad have been together since nine years old. Englands failure in europeans shows the gulf in class because of the lack of development at a young age and the british style. He feels he has explained the other points and getting a winning formula at home is his main concern which if you study results was achieved second half of season.Crewe have been resolute to stick to the game plan over a frustrating time for there fans of a five year plan they have reaped the benefits they have a training complex second to none ploughing huge amounts into youth development and that paid dividends he salutes them Southend have a different road to take for promotion and if this had been a normal year financially in league two would have been promoted, keep the faith.

A Southchurch with a heavy heart feels he has to respond to the Wee Birdies normal catalogue of excuses. First of all I did not think my post was negative. It was more about getting things right before the season starts and setting out our determination to improve the standard of football as opposed to last season. It's about winning this league by passing the ball, using our quality midfield and slipping accurate balls through to Eastwood. It may well be easier to win if you have a larger budget, that’s obvious. However, if you tell your defence to hoof it to your forward by passing mid field and negating any skilful play. It’s a bit rich to then say, 'we can’t afford to play any other way'. There has been any number of clubs on lower budgets over the years that have progressed well beyond the expected because they had forward thinking managers, Swansea springs immediately to mind. As for your England comment, do you think you are doing a great job at developing youth ideas for a future England? Do you think we can take your style of play and win the next world cup? I fear you and other managers like you, who can't see anything else other than 'bang it long' are part of the problem not the solution. Finally I can't keep the faith because I have none to start off with.

 

[Jam_Man]

A Southchurch with a heavy heart feels he has to respond to the Wee Birdies normal catalogue of excuses. First of all I did not think my post was negative. It was more about getting things right before the season starts and setting out our determination to improve the standard of football as opposed to last season. It's about winning this league by passing the ball, using our quality midfield and slipping accurate balls through to Eastwood. It may well be easier to win if you have a larger budget, that’s obvious. However, if you tell your defence to hoof it to your forward by passing mid field and negating any skilful play. It’s a bit rich to then say, 'we can’t afford to play any other way'. There has been any number of clubs on lower budgets over the years that have progressed well beyond the expected because they had forward thinking managers, Swansea springs immediately to mind. As for your England comment, do you think you are doing a great job at developing youth ideas for a future England? Do you think we can take your style of play and win the next world cup? I fear you and other managers like you, who can't see anything else other than 'bang it long' are part of the problem not the solution. Finally I can't keep the faith because I have none to start off with.

Do think its naive to think this current team could instantly turn from direct football to a quality passing team.

Did I miss 3 new signings ?

What quality midfielders do we have that have shown they can play flowing passing football ?

From what I can see, even with Grant in the team, we had no player who could thread accurate passes.

Dont get me wrong they showed at the end of the season they can play better football than earlier in the season, but we are far from having the players capable of playing the sort of passing football Crewe displayed.

 

[Jam_Man]

Oh Cluniemore, why do you persist? The three teams promoted had the biggest budgets but they were a long way off our top position mid season and the reason we did not go up was because of a swathe of poor results against clubs with smaller budgets than us. Promotion was ours to throw away last season and that is what we did. Also, just look at the huge pile of players brought in and barely used. Even if they were on a meagre wage that money could have been spent on one or two players that could actually be of benefit to the first team and not the stiffs. Lets face it, the team did quite well, albeit playing dreadful football much of the time, but tactical mistakes were made. Own up, apologise and let's move on. As for England at the Euro's, you say the gulf between them and other countries was there to see. I saw a team, not playing to their best, not playing with tactics that suited them, a team that gave effort but lacked belief. Sound familiar? Is Roy PS in disguise. Its you PS that should learn from the Euro's and get players to play the way they best can and not the way you think is best.

We played above our level for part of the season and you are using that to criticise.

I could understand it if we were showing real class when we were top of the leage and dominating games, but we werent.

Its annoying to be in such a good position and to lose out but even during our unbeaten run most were on here saying that it was amazing as we werent playing well and didnt deserve to be there.

Over the course of the season we didnt do enough to finish 3rd or better, although we did still get 83 points.

I definitely want to see better football at Roots Hall next year, the tail end of the season showed we can do so. An end to frustrating 1-0 defeats against mid/low table oppositions is certainly something to eradicate.

 

[Mick]

An end to frustrating 1-0 defeats against mid/low table oppositions is certainly something to eradicate.

I know what you mean but .... !!

 

[Jim Stannard]

A Southchurch with a heavy heart feels he has to respond to the Wee Birdies normal catalogue of excuses. First of all I did not think my post was negative. It was more about getting things right before the season starts and setting out our determination to improve the standard of football as opposed to last season. It's about winning this league by passing the ball, using our quality midfield and slipping accurate balls through to Eastwood. It may well be easier to win if you have a larger budget, that’s obvious. However, if you tell your defence to hoof it to your forward by passing mid field and negating any skilful play. It’s a bit rich to then say, 'we can’t afford to play any other way'. There has been any number of clubs on lower budgets over the years that have progressed well beyond the expected because they had forward thinking managers, Swansea springs immediately to mind. As for your England comment, do you think you are doing a great job at developing youth ideas for a future England? Do you think we can take your style of play and win the next world cup? I fear you and other managers like you, who can't see anything else other than 'bang it long' are part of the problem not the solution. Finally I can't keep the faith because I have none to start off with.

I know this point has been made over and over but it's an important one in response to this: PS had less than half a side to work with on the first day of pre-season two seasons ago. Do you honestly believe that a year later we should be playing free flowing, promotion winning football? Do you honestly believe a club in that position, and in League 2, would attract a the type of manager you suggest? Paul Sturrock was as good an appointment as we could have hoped for back then and he has, on the whole, delivered. Next season is key - no promotion and you'll have your wish to try someone new I'm sure.

We were at the bottom of a pit so deep two years ago that the club nearly died - it staggers me that supporters choose to ignore this when assessing Sturrock's achievements and instead concentrate on the 'style of play'. Since when has passing football been part of the Southend United ethos anyway - or even integral to its successes? Rarely in the 30 years I've supported the club - and even more rarely in the lowest tier.

 

[Mick]

A wee birdie with a heavy heart asked me to answer this negative post. Yes the three teams promoted mabye did full fill your stats southchurch.But they also have another interesting stat they were the three highest budgets in league,one team having a 3.2 million budget, a blethering chimp should be able to promote a team on that budget.So a better standard player can be afforded for example Benson went to Swindon for 3500 week which triggered there run to promotion. Crewe have proved a settled team and a style of play can work 90%of there squad have been together since nine years old. Englands failure in europeans shows the gulf in class because of the lack of development at a young age and the british style. He feels he has explained the other points and getting a winning formula at home is his main concern which if you study results was achieved second half of season.Crewe have been resolute to stick to the game plan over a frustrating time for there fans of a five year plan they have reaped the benefits they have a training complex second to none ploughing huge amounts into youth development and that paid dividends he salutes them Southend have a different road to take for promotion and if this had been a normal year financially in league two would have been promoted, keep the faith.

Well, my avian friend, I think you and a good number of your apologists on here have a wee problem if you/they think that post is negative.

It is a matter of record that last season's home matches produced some of the least entertaining football in a lifetime of watching Southend. There is nothing negative about wanting to see an improvement in the quality of football. There is nothing negative about wanting better for our football club, be it a better standard of football, better administration, better facilities, more home grown players progressing to the first team. Striving for improvement is positive not negative.

The mere fact that you view such a simple and plaintive call for improvement in quality as "negative" worries me.

 

[Jam_Man]

I know this point has been made over and over but it's an important one in response to this: PS had less than half a side to work with on the first day of pre-season two seasons ago. Do you honestly believe that a year later we should be playing free flowing, promotion winning football? Do you honestly believe a club in that position, and in League 2, would attract a the type of manager you suggest? Paul Sturrock was as good an appointment as we could have hoped for back then and he has, on the whole, delivered. Next season is key - no promotion and you'll have your wish to try someone new I'm sure.

We were at the bottom of a pit so deep two years ago that the club nearly died - it staggers me that supporters choose to ignore this when assessing Sturrock's achievements and instead concentrate on the 'style of play'. Since when has passing football been part of the Southend United ethos anyway - or even integral to its successes? Rarely in the 30 years I've supported the club - and even more rarely in the lowest tier.

The first year he had a free pass, the second season however he had long enough to make progress. Progress was however made, we finished with 83 points after all, but I do think we need more progress in playing style.

My view on it is that when we were playing at home we were playing one up front which was a sign of negativity and against teams happy to sit and defend it was predictable and didnt break them down.

In the last part of the season when Freddy joined we started playing two up front and the general style of play improved, this showed that it can be done.

Ive always been dead against playing 4-5-1 but I have to admit that 442 generally in football is on its way out. However when it is deployed with direct football its ugly and when its not providing results is painful to watch.

I dont see why some are so negative as to think last season was a total failure, but as Ive said I do want to see an improvment in style next season.

 

[Jim Stannard]

Well, my avian friend, I think you and a good number of your apologists on here have a wee problem if you/they think that post is negative.

It is a matter of record that last season's home matches produced some of the least entertaining football in a lifetime of watching Southend. There is nothing negative about wanting to see an improvement in the quality of football. There is nothing negative about wanting better for our football club, be it a better standard of football, better administration, better facilities, more home grown players progressing to the first team. Striving for improvement is positive not negative.

The mere fact that you view such a simple and plaintive call for improvement in quality as "negative" worries me.

The original post does, though, concentrate on perceived negatives, when there are plenty of positives to talk about. It also has a patronising, even disrespectful tone at times, suggesting that the manager is at fault for not listening how loyal supporters think the team should be playing. So maybe that is why he felt a need to respond.

We all want improvement. Better results, better playing style - all the betters you mention. We can't reach them instantly though - and I'd say two seasons, starting from scratch. is 'instantly.' It's horses for courses right now and we have to put up with it - to an extent. Some will remain positive, others will point out the negatives. As supporters, we all have to be patient though.

 

[Jim Stannard]

The first year he had a free pass, the second season however he had long enough to make progress. Progress was however made, we finished with 83 points after all, but I do think we need more progress in playing style.

My view on it is that when we were playing at home we were playing one up front which was a sign of negativity and against teams happy to sit and defend it was predictable and didnt break them down.

In the last part of the season when Freddy joined we started playing two up front and the general style of play improved, this showed that it can be done.

Ive always been dead against playing 4-5-1 but I have to admit that 442 generally in football is on its way out. However when it is deployed with direct football its ugly and when its not providing results is painful to watch.

I dont see why some are so negative as to think last season was a total failure, but as Ive said I do want to see an improvment in style next season.

We made progress, though, that's the point. When we stop making progress, that's the time to worry.

 

[Jam_Man]

We made progress, though, that's the point. When we stop making progress, that's the time to worry.

Completely agree. I dont agree at all with anyone who wants PS out for "failing" at this time. We went from a club with no players to one that achieved its highest point tally in 18 months.

Thats fantastic and hopefully performances will improve to match the points acquired.

 

[Barling Magna]

I disagree. I think Capello was guilty of that but Hodgson got the best out of a limited, mediocre (by England's standards) squad.

I agree that Hodgson got the best out of a limited side, with one exception - if you're going to play Carroll why not pass the ball in the air to him sometimes? Perhaps Crouch would have been a better bet since he can actually play football on the ground as well. Overall though I thought we achieved what we deserved; 6th or 7th in Europe is about right at the moment.....

 

[white sock]

A Southchurch with a heavy heart feels he has to respond to the Wee Birdies normal catalogue of excuses. First of all I did not think my post was negative. It was more about getting things right before the season starts and setting out our determination to improve the standard of football as opposed to last season. It's about winning this league by passing the ball, using our quality midfield and slipping accurate balls through to Eastwood. It may well be easier to win if you have a larger budget, that’s obvious. However, if you tell your defence to hoof it to your forward by passing mid field and negating any skilful play. It’s a bit rich to then say, 'we can’t afford to play any other way'. There has been any number of clubs on lower budgets over the years that have progressed well beyond the expected because they had forward thinking managers, Swansea springs immediately to mind. As for your England comment, do you think you are doing a great job at developing youth ideas for a future England? Do you think we can take your style of play and win the next world cup? I fear you and other managers like you, who can't see anything else other than 'bang it long' are part of the problem not the solution. Finally I can't keep the faith because I have none to start off with.

Didn’t realise we’d signed Eastwood. As for the rest of your insight I wonder what the stats on giving away possession would reveal about Timlin, Grant, Kalala et al last season as I for one never felt entirely comfortable the times we tried to get all tiki taka around the midfield.

This misconception we just played hoof ball last season seems an over-reaction to the 2 play-off games. With very few exceptions our football in every game was a mixture of both direct and shorter passing – a style adopted by pretty much every other team in the division. Formations changed and weren’t successful every time but I can’t remember watching many other sides – home or away – that made me think ‘wouldn’t it be great if we played like them’.

I don’t think your post is disproportionately negative just poorly thought-out with little rational argument.

The original post does, though, concentrate on perceived negatives, when there are plenty of positives to talk about. It also has a patronising, even disrespectful tone at times, suggesting that the manager is at fault for not listening how loyal supporters think the team should be playing. So maybe that is why he felt a need to respond.

We all want improvement. Better results, better playing style - all the betters you mention. We can't reach them instantly though - and I'd say two seasons, starting from scratch. is 'instantly.' It's horses for courses right now and we have to put up with it - to an extent. Some will remain positive, others will point out the negatives. As supporters, we all have to be patient though.

Jim I agree with all of this.