Tories Win the General Election

[MK Shrimper]

I'm not placing my vote on whose the better looking or most fashionable. Well, not totally, but I believe I make a valid point. If you look the part, then you will got more respect that the scruff who doesn't.

I'm not advocating you vote for Brown, but it's not as though he's running the country in a shell suit!

 

[canveyshrimper]

I'm not placing my vote on whose the better looking or most fashionable. Well, not totally, but I believe I make a valid point. If you look the part, then you will got more respect that the scruff who doesn't.

I'd say that is a valid point, Blair with his "boyish charm" and all pervading vacuous rictus grin is evidence of this. Although the Tories were always going to get caned in 1997, Hague being folically challenged was a vote loser in 2001, and the Labour Shylock slur against Michael Howard in 2005 did not do him any favours.

Similarly back in 1983 Michael Foot looked like a sack of ****, and stood no chance. Unfortunately style quite often triumphs over potential statesmean ship.

 

[loz]

Sorry osy but it isn't a myth. Austria has a government held together by a Neo Nazi style party under PR.

which is the fault of a) the voters who chose that party, and b) the other parties for not being able to work out a more sensible coalition. It's not the fault of a system which has the huge advantage of making the majority of people's votes actually matter, rather than a couple of hundred thousand swing votes in marginal constituencies. PR has the capacity to reveal more explicitly that democracy can be imperfect and ugly, but it doesn't make it so in the first place.

(fwiw i'm in favour of a single transferable vote system in larger multi-MP constituencies, which removes the disproportionaility of first past the post while maintaining the link between an MP and a local area. also has the advantage that you'd have several candidates from the same party running in each constituency, encouraging them to be a bit more independent to distinguish themselves).

 

[chadded]

And another thing. How many MP's actually run for election because they genuinely want to represent their local community, and how many do it because of the status?

 

[Mad Cyril]

We all know there are some nasty cuts coming yet GB is putting them off until after the election so that either it becomes a Tory problem or he has another five years before the next election.

If politicians had the balls to take a long term view I think it would benefit everyone. Unfortunately they are don't and all we get is papering over the cracks as politicians try to cling on to power.

I reckon that is worth a C in GCSE politics.

 

[Firestorm]

If you look the part, then you will got more respect that the scruff who doesn't.

And the great politicians suffer, Michael Foot is an example of a magnificent Political Brain, who didn't give a hoot about his "look" and was lambasted for the heinious crime of wearing a duffel coat to the cenotaph.

The problem with the electoral system in this country is that no gives a stuff about knowing about politics, no one goes out of their way to make an informed opinion based on weighing up both sides of the story. Political opinion is formed on what they read on 1 or two pages of their newspaper or what they hear from "their mate who knows what he is taking about".
Its this taking things on face value which results in the "best spin wins" (as long as the owners of the popular press want them too)

A large number of people don't think about the wider implications of issues either, an example is the loads of people who were moaning about the lack of money the local councils have spent on keeping the roads clear at winter who will be equally vociferous if Council tax is put up to pay for the extra gritting lorries etc and the lay unused next year, or constant cycle of "they took my Children Social services are a disgrace " to "Social Services are a disgrace they should have taken those children" stories

 

[Jam_Man]

Make no mistake this country needs a change of government, exactly as we did in 1997. New Labour has run out of steam, it has run out of credibility, and the party needs a spell in opposition.

Exactly. I cant stand cameron, he is a smarmy git who just seems to want to talk about whatever was in the Sun the day before, but he is still preferable to Gordon Brown.

Gordon Brown is just John Major, a non elected prime minister who took the reins of a government who had been in too long. He was doomed before he started, the fact he isnt a natural leader just made it easier for the Tories.

It needs something more fundemental than that. We need political parties that actually stand for something. Labour, Tory, Lib Dems....it's all empty promises to please Middle England and the readers of The Sun/Mirror.

You can't put a Rizla paper between any of the main parties and with the expenses scandal it seems that (on the whole) people enter into politics for one reason only - to feather their own nests.

As I've previously said, working as a poll clerk in elections I've seen the apathy of the great British public when it comes to voting and I can see this trait getting worse come May/June.

Sad, sad state of affairs.

Indeed.

Politics is more about retaining power than affecting real change.

They are so hamstrung by public opinion driven by the Sun etc that they are unable to actually look at taking risks and making changes that may actually mean something.

Its all about opinion polls and sadly the media drive public opinion and thus the government..

 

[osymandus]

Sorry osy but it isn't a myth. Austria has a government held together by a Neo Nazi style party under PR. When this happened the leader of the Have I Got News for you Party, cheerful Charlie Kennedy was up on his hind legs saying what an awful thing this was. But it was done under the PR system the Lib-Dems want to adopt. So it could happen here, many people who are core Labour voters have become disaffected, and have they feeling they are also disenfranchised by this government. And it seems they are ignoring the message of the other two mainstream parties, and looking to the extremists of the BNP.

While I accept and know that first past the post isn't great, I am happy to stick with it until someone comes up with a better format. Although it sticks in my craw that we are governed mainly by Scots.

The major problem currently is that our government is constipated, Brown won't go to the country until the last possible moment, as he is under the Micawberesque impression that something may turn up. In the meantime the country will stagger on rudderless until May 6th when IMO the election will finally take place.

Make no mistake this country needs a change of government, exactly as we did in 1997. New Labour has run out of steam, it has run out of credibility, and the party needs a spell in opposition.

I meant its a myth because its caused by PR , its not its caused by peoples lack of understanding. Austirans either wanted a Neo-NAzi goverments or were to ineffectual to ignore odious charismatic people to vote for who they really wanted ( PR will also cause teh death of political parties if only 1 man and a slither of salama vote for them). It also means you take totally and under responsibility for you you want running your country . The BNP vote here hasnt gone up or down it was shown to have remained teh same just fewer people voted for the other parties.
If your vote really countes and you don't use it and they do get in . Thats your fault and you get what you deserve .

To many people want a sole figure head or a dynamic leader to come rescue them (no wander the messiah religions are so popular... oh wait)

People hello wake up , your job to read the stuff your job to vote them in . One person dosnt make a party , leaders are just managers who speak louder then the rest , and me ive alwasy been more inclined to "trust" the quiet ones in the back ground who run things

 

[osymandus]

We all know there are some nasty cuts coming yet GB is putting them off until after the election so that either it becomes a Tory problem or he has another five years before the next election.

If politicians had the balls to take a long term view I think it would benefit everyone. Unfortunately they are don't and all we get is papering over the cracks as politicians try to cling on to power.

I reckon that is worth a C in GCSE politics.

I agree . Sadly your everyday joe dosnt have the balls for long term cuts or ideas so their representatives don't want to upset their bosses :(

We need a system that lets us get the people right for the jobs not just the poltical system that suits a decades ideologies.

 

[Mad Cyril]

I agree . Sadly your everyday joe dosnt have the balls for long term cuts or ideas so their representatives don't want to upset their bosses :(

We need a system that lets us get the people right for the jobs not just the poltical system that suits a decades ideologies.

It's the same mindset that expects the new England manager to overturn years of steak and chips/binge drinking and instantly transform the national team into world beaters by making a few minor squad changes.

 

[canveyshrimper]

Or as Ken Livingstone put it, if voting changed anything it would be abolished.

 

[Napster]

If you want proper democracy move to India, where they have numerous committees etc etc, yet nothing really gets done. Of course the opposite is China, which has a growth rate of 8% but they still have the death penalty and a job in government is a job for life.

Politics in the UK will never change only the people change. I expect Tories to have healthy lead in this election, in 2015 a narrow lead and Labour back in 2019.

 

[number11]

Exactly. I cant stand cameron, he is a smarmy git who just seems to want to talk about whatever was in the Sun the day before, but he is still preferable to Gordon Brown.

Gordon Brown is just John Major, a non elected prime minister who took the reins of a government who had been in too long. He was doomed before he started, the fact he isnt a natural leader just made it easier for the Tories.




.

Major was elected in 1992 though, avoiding the "last person in Britain having to turn out the lights", if Neil Kinnock had won.

 

[Napster]

I cant imagine Kinnock being in charge. Bad enough a Scot in charge, a Taff would have been a nightmare.

 

[Thorpe Groyney]

Didn't last long, the leadership challenge, did it.

 

[osymandus]

It's the same mindset that expects the new England manager to overturn years of steak and chips/binge drinking and instantly transform the national team into world beaters by making a few minor squad changes.

Yup maintain the status Quo at all cost because its (insert national identity here because its not just England that do this !) our way of life .

Sadly Nap's the people don't change thats the problem.
India also has a price for everything and everything in its price range .

 

[MK Shrimper]

I cant imagine Kinnock being in charge. Bad enough a Scot in charge, a Taff would have been a nightmare.

I disagree. I think Kinnock in power - no Blair and therefore no Brown. Possibly.....

 

[Napster]

I disagree. I think Kinnock in power - no Blair and therefore no Brown. Possibly.....

I doubt that. Mandy's been on the scene for ages. Plus of course if it wasnt for John Smith carking it...

 

[Napster]

Sadly Nap's the people don't change thats the problem.
India also has a price for everything and everything in its price range .

Ok the faces change - you know what I mean

 

[Crabby Shrimper]

I cant imagine Kinnock being in charge. Bad enough a Scot in charge, a Taff would have been a nightmare.

Oh, I dunno, David Lloyd George didn't do too bad